posted Fri, 07/04/2014 - 06:57
35562
+ 16 Steriod Purity Assesment by Electrospray Ionization mass spectrometry
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Another write up by the Dr about how the machine that he uses is used for purity assessment.
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68QIs there a requirement to brag about labs? They are for my personal info.
angusAnyone reading this and wanting a question answered by the dr then please ask me here. Or anywhere really. Everytime I login and see the ashop rant I get sidetracked. I'm not responding to him anymore. He's a joke. He goes in so many different directions that I can't keep up. So anyone that can follow a conversation without losing focus please lets have a conversation. I don't even care if they're ashop's questions. I just need a methodical approach to this.
Angus you are so sly. You just want answer from members who are not experts so you can say anything you want. At this moment we all are waiting your expert to contact my expert. Nothing else. Why you avoid this ?
68QI am not waiting on that. I could give a shit less what they have to say to each other. We need an expert that neither of you know. For sure not one you can buy off.
You are not waiting on this. Please read down real members with history and karma want to hear their conclusions.
Do not say if is too complicated you do not understand then nobody understand. You are as good as anybody ? Maybe some will understand the debate.
If Angus want to prove he is real he should try more than asking people to believe him. He is not selling here a religion: believe and do not question
tryptamine 22 hours ago @99transam
A trusted 3rd party sends a few unlabeled samples to both labs. See how different the results are if they are different at all. Simple and it should show if there is cause for concern or not…. best idea I've seen yet can't believe no one has said it already, or if they have I missed it. Nice!
ASHOP...IS THIS NOT A VIABLE OPTION?
68QWhy not use a legal substance to test. Something off the shelf.
OH YES !!!!
Some of you buy legal oils and give to tests to labs from internet and to Angus. More members doing this much better
68QThe oil does not matter. Raw form is what is important to me. Getting the correct info to the source is way more valuable than the consumer.
To keep it correct guys. Buy from pharmacy aspirin or paracetamol etc and send him for testing. Lets see the results.
68QNow this is a good post. We need a compound that we know the purity. Dosing is not a issue because it is approximate.
I already gave contact to a source to the professor thats doing for me. He will test his products. Sure is a viable option as long as the 3rd party is a independent one.
As much as I hate to dive into this controversy, there are some things I believe need to be said.
Ashop, you would have have more credibility if you had come forward with these concerns a year ago instead of waiting for one of your products to test bad.
Angus has always been clear that his measurements of quantities is AN ESTIMATE. That is why the summary page contained relatively vague statements like: "100 mg is about right"
Angus has also been clear that HPLC is indeed a more accurate method of determining quantity. He did MS instead only to make testing affordable for us.
The assumption being that MS is accurate enough for our purposes. Just because HPLC is more accurate does not mean we really NEED more accuracy.
I do not have the technical expertise to know if the assumption made in 4. above is true or not. It seems to be the real question being debated.
With all the acrimony and insults being included in the technical arguments I cannot make any kind of determination about who is right or wrong. Ashop, it would be very helpful if you would bring it down a few notches.
I have had products tested by angus. My personal experience with the products tested matched his test results. What I suspected was bunk tested as bunk, what I thought was good product tested good. I know this only matters to me, and no one has any reason to take my word for it, but there you have it for what it's worth. And EVERY sample I sent in was sent blind--Angus did not know who made it.
Follow the money. Always a good approach to find out what is really going on. I've heard the ridiculous assertion that the money Angus makes motivates him to whip out fake reports by the dozens. Really? I have run the numbers and I estimate that Angus does not make as much in a year from running these tests than more than a few SRCs make in a week or two. (PM me if interested in how I calculated this).
A friend of mine makes twice as much as Angus possibly could by running a taco stand.
The SRCs are the ones with real money in the game. If Angus wanted to make real money he would become an SRC.
I do not think there had yet been a case where the SRC was able to say: "Hey wait, I tested that product before I distributed it and it tested good."
We all know for a fact that 99.9% of all SRCs do not test all their raws. Most don't test any. In my view this puts them in an indefensible position when a bad test comes in. With the profit they make and with the low cost of testing I cannot feel much sympathy for their plight.
A few have expressed concern that angus has or would have too much power. Frankly all that needs to be done is to send in samples BLIND. If he doesn't know whose product he tested he cannot misuse the information.
No one is forcing anyone to use Angus. Everyone is always free to use other labs, or if it's so lucrative, as some have suggested, then start your own testing service.
The entire Eroids community needs access to independent testing and at least for now Angus is all we have. I just hope he doesn't quit and open a taco stand.
.
1
A fallacious argument : If I did not reported earlier means I am wrong.
I reported that he was making fake tests and I posted this somewhere please read.. Why I should start arguments with him at that time ?
2
In analytic there is not such things as estimate. Analytic is advanced mathematic.
3-4
You do not make any logic also. Your conclusion are based on a assumption based on what ?
Is not about being more or less accurate. I post so much and you do not read nothing. Maybe I should stop and let you trust him. His MS tests can have a random error like 50% or 90% any error. Plus even for IDENTIFICATION he run MS tests in a very wrong way. My professor pointed this and Angus is failing to answer. They are so bad that professor think he is just making up tests. He need to talk with Angus to evaluate his skills.
5-6
Another fallacious argument. Your post could suggest that If you don't understand the topic, then nobody understands it. So, your opinions are as good as anybody's. Some people already understood very good. You do not understand. Let each one to make his own opinion.
7
If you trust him then everyone should trust him ?
Let me explain. Some people send products for testing when they suspect something so thats why you think he was real. But many times products can be good and can be user steroid use history or bad cycle that is the problem. Sure you could had bad products also. But if you have a bad watch and show you correct time twice a day means is a good watch ?
You told him you have no results and he gave you what you wanted to hear. He give you what you want to hear thats why you believe him.
8
Money value is different for each guy. Maybe he has a hidden agenda. This is a fallacious argument ( if he wasn't making too much money IMO then he was a honest guy )
9
A fallacious argument. ( John did not killed this lady for 10 USD because 10 USD can be earned in one hour ) . But a assumption: making tacos need some work. Here is no work and in future he can manipulate sources etc who knows..
10
Also is a fallacious argument ( if John wanted money from killing people he would kill a rich guy not a lady with 10 USD so he did not killed her ) . Maybe being a source implies a risk he does not want to take. Maybe he was planning something who knows ?
11
I have lab tests on my shop for products. I never tried to post lab results here or make a fuss about them because I considered people will think I post papers who nobody can verify so I let the quality of the products speak.
12
You use again fallacious arguments.
How you know ? If was not proved that sources tests means they do not test ? How you know how sources conduct their business ? For example: I test all raws. You want I have hundreds of old results for raws, some good some bad and rejected. I test because for me is possible is legal there are laboratories that can do this in the area and I do this to be sure I can stand for my products.
13
Send them in blind. I sent them products in blind and sent payment but he refuse to test.
Why ? Wonder why...
14
Another fallacious arguments. Did I said anyone is forced ? I just want to be clear that his results have the same value as reading the crystal globe. He should put such a disclaimer. Also my arguments here does not stop him from continuing his testing. He is free to do testing.
15
If Angus is bad but if he is all what we have then he is good. You are using again a fallacious argument.
I do not want to force anyone to believe me. I want just a normal debate on his tests, I have a expert that analyzed most of the tutorials he posted here and were found full of twists and mistakes. Angus should continue to answer my expert about those mistakes. My expert also explained in a simple way that his MS conclusions are really ILOGICAL by explaining things in simple math. Angus failed to explain why his mathematic is wrong. All I want Angus is to speak more with my professor because if he doesnt speak is hard to prove anything. Let him prove he is good or bad. A discussion between the experts then discussion posted here and we decide
Please do not bring fallacious arguments like if is so complex then we can not understand and if we can not understand then Angus is good. Do not appeal to the claim that whatever has not yet been proved false must be true and so on
Lets experts discuss then we will read their discussions here and will decide. He is good or he is bad
Your point #8 is flawed. And maybe you didn't notice. But originally beaker was in charge of the tests. He was angus's partner and I assume is the dr.
Guess who went into the src business??? Yes that guy. I am not going to say which src he partnered with. But that src recently had a very bad test. Guess what happened angus changed the test and said he messed up after the src alerted him to the bad test.
Like you said follow the money.
hmmm also I noticed something regarding Beaker. Accept my friendship plz
angusBeaker is not involved in any way. Your assumption is wrong. Sorry. I see where that could make sense but it is not. I asked beaker the other day about the beaker brew and if that was still a plan, and he said he hasn't talked to that source in months and that it was not ever going to happen. He has been effectively out of the game for some time. We are still friends and talk occasionally though. He's a good guy.
Bro come on man. You know that he started the testing and you guys are or were partners. All anyone has to do is search beakers name. He's all over the testing. You have Been honest and upfront.
Just respond to ashops questions and put him to bed if he's wrong. He's offering a debate go at it.
The tests attack his product, he has a right to defend himself.
He say he doesn't want to answer my questions because I ask ( childish for a analyst )
Can you go on top of the page there is a long post. Take it copy and paste and ask him to answer each point. If you do not mind
Please accept my FR I want to send you some informations maybe is interesting maybe not
I asked you 10 times. Send to my email address all your laboratory tests ever made. Professor wants to analyze them. If you are so sure they are all good why you avoid ? Send separate archives for each product
"The bigger the lie the more they believe"
Paul Joseph Goebbels. Adolf Hitler's Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany.
This Angus was telling people what they wanted to hear. They were sending him products with labels telling him what is inside and that they had no results. He gave them results as they expected. But sometimes maybe products were bad but sometimes maybe user steroid use history or his cycles were not good.
I posted last year a clear authorized and specified explanation to the profound mistakes in the "methods" and interpretation to results in a "test" done by Angus team on tren E by Sciroxx. As the members here are not educated in analytic chemistry I'll be happy to specify here again, or in person, how ridiculous are the mistakes there. I've never looked in other tests, so I really can't tell on them, but I may clearly show, explain and prove that in Sciroxx specific tren E test by Angus is profoundly bullshit, and this from the head of an official independent lab.
I talked in person with Angus few times, he's never asked for a bribe, he looked like a honest dud, with some integrity and a honest belief in what he's doing, but these pretend to be tests are scientifically invalid
You may all contact the official lab who released the info, and learn for yourself on this going on joke
http://www.eroids.com/pics/trenadex-enanthate-by-sciroxx-official-indepe...
There are guys with a social magnet that can make others sell the car/house for investing in some fake business or things like this
Is good you posted here those informations
Damn this is heating the temperature in my brain more than what is good, hope we can clear this out ASAP...We are currently testing many raws to get ready for next batches and we do not want to run out of stock that would hurt us big time lol
seriously i hope this going to be cleared and that we also going to have some "guidance" of how to breakdown the informations of such tests etc. as there have been a LOT of gossip of the tests of the tabs as well and alleged low purity tests of tabs were praised WTF ??
getting heated again guys lmao
Do you still have hopes Angus is legit? Do you see any evidence here in Angus favour beside the fact that he is a good guy that people likes him ? Is a good with a good messages that screwed you. I am asking him to send me answers to all problems professor found in his analyses and he do not answer. I am asking him to send me all lab tests he ever produced and he doesnt answer.
angusI'm having a real problem with you and your methods. I'm not comfortable with you posting email conversations with my dr. You have a long history of exposing people's personal information for all to see. That won't happen in this case. I could care less about your personal ambition to discredit me or the dr running the tests. You know damn good and well I'm on holiday for a month. Quit trying to pretend like I'm hiding. I am, in fact, not. I have refused your payoff, I do not want your samples, I have refused to back down to your threats you have made, and I will not allow you to bash me. Perhaps a phone call is the best between the two analysts? I will not put my professional in hams way like you have no problem doing.
Yes you went in holiday now ( how I should know LOL ) and you should stay there. I posted in another thread a discussion between you and me ( in fact between professor and your freshman student ) and I censored all personal informations btw in another post you wrote that if you would scam people then you will not have now unpaid bills to electricity or similar. In my country people who have unpaid bills doesnt afford to stay in holiday for 4-6 weeks but maybe in states is different. But is not my problem finally
Do not attack me personally, attack the arguments. I never exposed anyone informations, show me one example. Do not tell me now such stories.
Phone call ? I agree but there are problems with this. Your student is too dumb to understand something through a phone call and how I post here a phone-call ? A phone-call will allow you to claim something not real and make things confusing again. I understand your tactic.
*We need a open email discussion my friend without your doctor name without personal details. Only discussion based on analyses. Ask your doctor to produce a new email just for this. What is the problem?
Did I threat you ? Show me a example ? I told only that I will fight until all people will see the truth. But is good you are saying lies, this will make people to understand everything
I sent you money and samples. I want tests on them. I sent you everything without labels. Some products are omnadren or other brand names others are oil, I want you to see results. Why you would refuse ? The only reason you know that you will fail. My friend keep the money and stay in holiday in this situation
professional what ? Selling fake MS on a forum is called professional now ?
I promise no personal information will be disclosed. If I disclose any personal information please moderator here to take action and kick me out of board
You do not need to provide any personal informations to my professor. You need just to talk with him and clear up everything
You are kind of the guy who will never admit the truth is that right ?
For GOD sake just admit you have fucked up, tell us if your doctor is a freshman student unable to do a good analyze and you believed until now they are good. If you admit this then all sources here lets reimbuse your "customers" with free stuff for the costs of analyzes. We would finish this without any more efforts and time lost. Saying the truth is the best option now my friend
angusTrying to get me to admit something that isn't true might be something you're well versed in but it's not something I would ever do. Posting that while knowing my Internet is limited and I cannot respond is cheap. As I've said all along I have nothing to hide, there's no deceit, no smoke and mirrors. You say to have discussion only about science but them you follow immediately with the bashing of me.
You very much did post someone's personal information, not mine. There is no freshman, there is no student, in fact I have a list of his current published peer reviewed documents but I'm not giving them to you. I'd give them to a MOD or someone trustworthy. But not yourself.
As for your samples and payment. I told you I don't want either. If you still sent them then you're a fool. Have a customer send them if your intentions are pure. Have them remove the labels too. Tell me it's tren when it's test, I don't care. If the tests are so bad then why haven't you done that? And also answer me this.....the reason your product was tested in the first place is because the user thought it was poor quality. Indeed it did turn out to be.
Even if you are in holiday in Ghana with limited INTERNET your expert can contact my professor and have a discussion about tests right ? Why nobody contact him ? ( I see you posting here so you have no INTERNET issues)
Please show me one time when I posted ANYONE personal informations. Thats total bullshit. I had arguments with someone but I never posted nothing
I did not asked you a list of documents published by him. I did not asked you to give me his CV. I only asked you to tell him to contact my professor so he can learn what huge errors he makes. What help me or a mod if you send him a list of documents and a name. That moderator will be able to check if that is the guy who tests your products ?Lets be serious. I NEVER ASKED PERSONAL INFORMATION WTF MAN. You just continue lying thats not good. Is not possible to lie about analytics
Why you need to be sent by a customer ? I want you to test and I will not ask anyone to believe me. Please test for me. Just for me. I promise not to post results if you want this
You just tell people what they expect to hear. This is why people believed you until now. You are a guy with a good message that has social skills. But nothing else
Hell yeah your the man angus I trust your tests cause I know for a fact that tren a I sent u was straight up junk & the test proved it
AnonNo personal information should be posted for safely of both parties, obviously.
But if ashop censors out all the personal information on the debate that his professor and your dr are allegedly going to have, then I don't really see a problems with the conversation being posted publicly.
It really concerns me knowing what this debate is going to entail and how it pans out, because I'm skeptical of both parties. at the moment, based on their arguments and evidence, in my eyes ashop seems to be right. Again, that's only my opinion, based on his arguments and evidence.
I would like to clarify that when I'm reading, either angus or ashops arguments, I'm completely reading them subjectively.
Base on the strongest argument with the best evidence to support their claim, I've made the decision that ashop is completely right on his assertions.
Again, I'd like to read the alleged conversation that the dr and professor are going to have to further my knowledge. Also, to make a better decision on who's right and who's wrong base on the arguments and evidence each party presents.
Btw, I'm a science man.
one thing to remember people is that in science, your word means nothing without evidence. No matter how much credentials you may have or even if you are a top expert at certain disciplines.
If you want my honest opnion your experts statements are giving sense to me a lot, I have had many doubts and questions on angus tests but we did not have alternatives...Also we have talked to some experts that stated that HPLC is the correct method for testing raws and agreed on all the statements of your expert.
But I would like to see and looking forward for the conversation between angus Dr. friend and your expert to be honest as I think they are going to agree HPLC is the only way !
RustyhookerFrom what I've read the last year, hplc shows just correct dosing. Mass spec reads impurities. Both tests should be run from what i gather.
Couple sources kept posting hplc powders and bragging about its quality. Then the oils ttested full of impurities. So either the source messed up or had poor quality powders.
Sir, please read MOA that are accepted by international organizations FDA etc for drug testing here:
http://imageshack.com/a/img829/8063/addv.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img855/3277/nzk1r.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/2917/9z0m.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9180/3vo9o.jpg
You see there is a section on each raw about detecting impurities. So HPLC cover impurities
But MS is good to detect unknown compounds, yes. But I do not see in Angus analyses this. If you read the conclusions for example : 85% purity. But he does NOT specify what other 15% are. If he was using for real a MS he should say exactly what is there right ? Like 15% is sugar or something like this. Also MS tests would be good if are done properly for research or criminologists but are NOT used for drug quality testing. If MS was good for this then be sure they would ask MS and no HPLC
Maybe I am wrong but you read and tell me your opinion. I have done this post without a expert advice
Is good you guys started to confirm you understand my expert statements. There is lot of logic there and if you have patience you can get idea at least that Angus is wrong my professor show where he is wrong but Angus does not reply. Until now I was only received PM and emails of support but people and sources did not posted nothing. I think everyone should post what they think otherwise is not a debate. Many of you know chemists mathematicians please ask around and post here your conclusions guys.
If Angus doctor contact my professor we will have a lot to read after they finish the debate
I am seeking solutions to this like everybody else and hopefully yourself...I am as you can see pointing out some of the doubt there have been and giving my opnion of how to do when we get this cleared....at this moment eroids haven´t got any other alternatives and a lot of members are following these tests from angus which is the reason of the importance of getting this cleared, I thought that was the intention of us all?
Trying to stay objective without pulling feelings in order not to hurt anybodies feelings as well
I have some labs only weeks old I can send ??
RustyhookerLlewellyn....famous...PhD explains impurities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LL7bL4F9G4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I posted that a year+ ago in forums. Good video....
I would still like to see the brainless method....just for starters.
A sample (or 2 or 3) submitted to your/whom evers chemist....and the same samples submitted to angus. Test and compare.
This isn't gonna show necessarily who is right or wrong as of yet but it would give us a better playing field to observe your differences and understand ourselfs whats really going on.
Theirs too much scientific talk for 99% of us muscle heads to grasp here.
Alot of email/pm with corresponding info most of us are not going to see
Is this not a good option?
The basic problem is it is all anonymous over the internet and EVERYTHING is unverifiable. How would anyone know that the same sample was sent to all three labs?
How would we know Lab 3 even exists and the test results were not created on Microsoft PowerPoint?
I will do what I need to do for myself to determine who to trust. This will, hopefully include finding a second lab, sending the same sample in twice to the same lab to determine repeatability, comparing results to personal experience, etc.
There is no need to understand chemistry. Just read carefully and will see there are basic logic and mathematic mistakes
Why he doesn't answer to all problems professor found in his documents posted here ?
I don't think you are going to find any lab that will risk doing this. Why would a legitimate lab risk their business to help? To risky that's why no one has done it till now. I believe there used to be one, but I think they went down during ORD.
Sure we can. They don't have to be disclosed to the public....just a mod for instance...
AnonA trusted 3rd party sends a few unlabeled samples to both labs. See how different the results are if they are different at all. Simple and it should show if there is cause for concern or not…. best idea I've seen yet can't believe no one has said it already, or if they have I missed it. Nice!
I am not a very active member. But I have Been calling for checks and balances for over a year now.
Someone else hit the nail on the head when they said angus has become the single most powerful member on this board.
Maybe he is a bad student that had no knowledge and he tried to make some money here but his work was a error ( tough he wasnt aware ) or maybe he was falsifying documents, lying , cheating ( maybe extorting sources who don't comply ?)....at this moments take this options as possibility. There is no possibility that he analyzes are correct. If I would not have confirmation of people who have a huge reputation and education I would not risk my ass to say this here. If I would think there is 1% of posibility his MS were correct I would not say this. I promise to uncover everything about him just tell him to get in contact with my professor. As long as he continue communication my professor will be able to make a make a good evaluation for his skills. At the moments please remember that professor told me that I have a freshman student in the best situation ( he said worse but I do not want to offend Angus ) doing MS injections ( he read all tutorials Angus posted here and found so many mistakes he was laughing in my face ).
There is no need to understand chemistry. Just read carefully and will see there are basic logic and mathematic mistakes
Why he doesn't answer to all problems professor found in his documents posted here ?
I sent this to your email Angus, today second time. Please send me all your analyses ever done on MS. Please send a separate archive for each one. Professor wants to look carefully on each one and inspect graphs and everything. I will post all his conclusions also. Is your best interest to solve this. I have only downloaded those posted under your profile but you said you have done 100 or more so please send them all to me. Thank you very much for cooperation
68QI have a idea to solve everything. Test TestP with bloods and MS. Someone could make 3 small batches from 3 different raw suppliers.Run MS on raws and make 3 different small batches that are dosed as if raws came back at 100%. Vials could be labeled A,A,B,BC,C. vial As could be ran until finished and bloods run followed by Bs and Cs. Blood work results could be posted at exact same time as MS report. Blood levels should follow purity.Higher the % then higher the test in blood.Would take a little time but if you doubt the MS reports then I believe that will show if it is correct or not.
Also you do not understand ( nobody understand ) Angus ilogic. I see some analyses here for a source I do not know: TEST PROPIONATE (100MG CLAIM TO BE ) analyzed to 100 mg substance inside with 84% purity ( this is so fucking ILOGIC, you can read my posts where this retarded statement is spotted and debated ). For this blood tests will come out correctly right ? It has 100 mg test inside. So how you know his purity is real or not ? Low purity means something impure in the oil. What is that ? He has no idea even he has a MS that can ID the impurities.
I have always felt like something was wrong here but could never accuse anyone without proof. And since most don't know about or understand how this system really works (unless you've been extensively trained in it) I think that the wool has been pulled over our eyes for a long time. Not necessarily that angus has done anything wrong (maybe he has maybe he hasn't) but someone somewhere is just printing up shit that nobody understands.
If what you suspect here turns out to be true, we are going to have a big cluster fuck of a problem here. I am very eager to hear what the answers are when your experts debate.
What makes your professor an expert? How do we know he is who you say? I know you cannot expose him but can you give us something to help us trust the word of a source? You have a horse in this race. But then again so does every other source