+ 5 Lean Bulk, Lean Mass and Purple Unicorns
Still to this day I see post after post of people in general saying they want to "lean bulk" or "lean mass" so lets bust through this for a moment.
What muscle do you want to build? Lean, Bulk, or Toned? Sorry to have to say this, but there is no such thing as lean muscle, bulky muscle or toned muscle. Muscle is muscle. There are no different muscle densities or textures. It’s all the exact same thing. Muscle is muscle PERIOD. Muscle will appear lean on some people, bulked up on other people and toned nicely on some. If all muscle is the same, then why does it sometimes look different? It's an illusion created by other factors by the amount of muscle a person has built along with the amount of FAT they have or do not have covering the muscle.
For example you take 2 different people same genetics and same build. One you give 15 pounds of muscle and then next you give 30 pounds of muscle. You look at the guy with 15 pounds and say, "wow, he built lean muscle." take the second guy and say "Wow, he built bulk muscle." Reality should kick in and tell you that they both have the same muscle and just one has more then the other GIVING THE ILLUSION OF BULK MUSCLE.
Give those same 2 people the same everything but change their body fat percentages. Give them both 10 pounds of muscle. give one a low bodyfat and the other a higher bodyfat. Did the first guy build “toned” muscle while the second person built “bulky” muscle? Not a chance.The lower bodyfat gives the ILLUSION of lean muscle while the other guy has fat on top of the muscle giving him a "bulked" look. If that same guy lost some of the fat, you would see the exact same toned muscle the first person has. No, he did not suddenly change bulky to lean. It was there all along hiding under FAT.
To wrap this shit up it’s not muscle itself or the type it is or isn’t that makes a person look lean or bulky or even toned. It’s the amount you build, and the amount of fat that is or isn't covering it that creates that illusion.
If you do want to lean bulk it is possible; but you need to pay strict attention to macro input and calories just above maintenance; and guess what? its just like taking EQ; it takes you a long time to build if you have a high BF percentage because the lower your BF gets the more "lean bulk" it looks. Talk to true bodybuilders on this forum and pick their brain at how they build muscle and stay lean; they will tell you that your diet has to be 100% or nothing.
Hopefully you guys read these types of posts instead of running straight to the AAS section all the time or criticizing peoples cycles. Get yourself informed more about the shit that it takes to grow and get the body you want. We have been putting together some great posts on the real science behind this activity and you are just chasing your tail if you don't read any of them.
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Mr KfizzleI'm just over here trying to get as big as possible... go for gains in the winter with added bf is fine by me. Cut up for summer and grow again after. It's getting close to grow time again... I can barely wait. Some people try to over complicate everything...the sky is blue right???
Great post my man. I'm glad you brought this subject back around again.
Good read brother! I just wonder what the point of doing a wet bulk or holding lots of water and looking sloppy, I mean thinking like a bodybuilder your gonna have to strip that water and fat off at some point so why put it on to begin with? Why not try and keep the fat to a minimum all year long and not dirty bulk, or throw tons of androgens and water retention roids into the mix?
the point is that it water can be lost and some people don't care if they dirty bulk or not ..
great post ;-) but you missed the point on the purple unicorn..
RustyhookerGuess that's my error. 3 years here working these forums and trying to split mass into 2 clear cut catagories. Lean bulk or wet bulk.
There's clearly a wet bulk and that's determined by water retention
There's also a lean bulk or dry bulk again separated by water retention.
This story isn't some kinda new super miracle of discussion here. It's spring going into summer. So when someone wants lean bulk and pists a cycle 600test/400deca then they're headed in the wrong direction. Yes, its added muscle folliwed with 10-15lbs of water. When actually it's drier compounds needed.
Bulk is bulk is bulk....is bulk. Meaning you can cut or bulk on any compounds given the above mentioned water factors. Bulk is added myscle mass. Flat out.
Cutting is a different animal controlled by diet. Roids simply to hold mass while clean diet strips off. Typically scale weight drops.
Either way or understanding it's up to forum advisors to try and connect with the op and get details on goals. Lean bulk or lean mass in my mind heads right to test, eq, mast, provi, var, Winny, tbol etc. Wet bulk or dirty bulk....big foods! Test, deca, drol, dbol, npp etc
Nit ricket science
Isn't the idea behind a wet bulk to get the water retention to stretch the muscle facia to help the flow ie: removal of acids, promote protein synthesis, to help provide for lack of better words space for new fibers to grow? I do agree the muscle is muscle but isn't there reasoning behind the methods that you choose to grow said muscle?
RustyhookerWet bulk can be fun. In spring most folks are beach prepping so they tend to want a drier cycle. Strength gains on a wet stack, nitrogen, fascia stretch...yes. Just be prepared after a wet cycle to drop the water. Many folks freak thinking its muscle loss. It's just the water load mainly. Strength goes down a lil as well.
By no way, shape or form was this something new; it was only another reminder to our community the explanation that muscle is muscle; there is no lean muscle or toned or bulk. You can take mast, anavar, EQ, and all the other drying compounds in the world but without a plan or definition in mind you will still gain fat and or water over the muscle making you believe you gained a completely different type of muscle.
RustyhookerVery true. And the plan circles a food core.
Both of you gentleman are correct in what you're saying. You're both trying to decode and break down what the other person is trying to say a little too much instead of looking at the obvious similarities in what has been posted. Both of you play nice and find me that damn unicorn...I just promised my daughter one before I read the whole post...stay safe boys
Unicorn is gone :(
I guess what I meant in my previous post and pic was that I was attempting to build muscle with little fat as possible or as collateral damage. Then cut the last 5 weeks of my 12 week cycle. I'm definitely no expert on this science so forgive my terminology. I'm aware that I could gain more muscle faster with a much higher calorie surplus but I'll be more content doing this slower and remaining relatively defined in the process.
This was not meant to point you out; we get a lot of people who want to build the lean look and pack on more size at the same time. it is possible but it takes a longer amount of time. 12 week and or 20 week cycles are not enough time to do it. if you take 8 weeks of a test only cycle and gain about 20 pounds then attempt to change it midstream to lose any extra fat; you will be a little disappointed at the end of the cycle because at that 8 week mark you would have to change your diet and go on a macro based plan 110%.
Good post +1
I'm old school. It's either a bulk or a cut as Gearhead said. I don't see any reason for it to be more complicated than that.
issue is people want to talk about adding "lean" mass but what they are really saying is they want to bulk up (put on a lot of muscle) without adding a lot of fat. it's semantics
Absolutely right. I try to stay fairly lean constantly now as the older I'm getting the harder it seems to get to trim the fat off. When I bulk, I do just that. Eat eat eat, just keep it cleaner and more consistent than I used to 10/15 years ago. Sometimes I think some of our members gave become afraid of carbs even when bulking and worry only about protein. You know yourself, people are shocked how much food you consume when bulking.
Like we constantly say, it's another one of those aspects that's "all about the diet".
bulking.. cutting... I m ALWAYS stuffing my face that only thing that changes for me is the type of food... when I m bulking I eat way more carbs than I would if I was cutting and even then I still eat CARBS .. and bad ones too.. I ve always been more about paying attention to what my body is telling me and how I look in the mirror and if I don't like what I see I change what I am eating .... last few years I ve been more about putting on the mass and not so much about how shredded I am . I guess since I know how to do it and what to do it doesn't bother me so much that I carry some extra fat.
It seems new, but it's not - that's the idea that people want to bulk and cut on the same cycle. It absolutely cannot be done on a short cycle and even on a long cycle with the proper diet, the chances of pulling that off are slim. So, yes, a lean bulk is possible, so is a dirty or wet bulk - different compounds - different diets - then there is the notion of recomp - losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. Can that be done? Yes, BUT, you are not going to lose fat and gain muscle at the same rate - in a recomp you can gain a lot of muscle and lose some fat or lose a lot of fat and gain some muscle. Different diet again, different chemicals. For those of us that are old fashioned in bodybuilding - we bulk when we bulk - muscle, fat and water and we cut when we cut. Rinse and repeat and every year you get a little bigger if you been at it a long time.
Couldn't agree more. I've always liked the old school way of thinking. It's what has always worked best for me.
We talked a little bit before and I love your input, but how would one go about recomping, as in adding majority of there focus on muscle and some focus on losing fat? And I just can't wrap my head around the concept of blowing up and shrinking down to look good for maybe a couple months out of the year untill you reach where you wanna be and maintain it. Maybe my heads fucked right now coming off a long diet and the word fat makes me tremble lol
Bro, I'm not suggesting blowing up like the Goodyear blimp, and get sloppy fat, but if you're gonna do a show or 2 per year, you are gonna wanna add as much mass as possible each year and I can't be worried about looking smooth when I'm trying to add mass. The truth of the matter is that often the additional water that some compounds pull into the muscle helps strength dramatically. With that boost, I can hoist heavier weight which helps with growth. There ain't no such thing in my mind as "reach where u wanna be and maintain it" - what? Doesn't even compute for me. It all depends on personal goals - we are all different and I can certainly understand if you have been on a long diet that you don't want to hear about adding any fat no matter what at this point.
But do you think ppl get better results from bulk then cuts? Rather than slowly adding muscle and not putting on as much fat which means less time to diet?
you are after two very different goals Feathers.. bulking is about .. bulk... adding getting bigger.. cutting, thats about getting chiseled, showing the muscle striations .. two differnt goals, two different diets, two different training regimens ...
Oops I meant better results from bulking for an extended period of time then cutting for an extended period of time rather than staying fairly lean and slowly adding muscle over time. I feel the latter would allow you to avoid unnecessary fat gain that just slows down your overall goal to build muscle when you have to spend more time taking the fat off, and depending on a lot of factors maybe even losing some muscle that you gained. I mean if muscle only requires say 300 extra cals to grow, then throwing 500-1000 extra is only gonna lead to fat, I never understand why ppl let them selves get so bloated and fat thinking they look good or thinking they need to eat all those extra cals to grow muscles
I think we are running into an issue of semantics and words that are over used. Cutting in my world is running a cycle to maintain muscle mass and wipe out the fat. I cut for competition and growth isn't my main concern. Bulking, in my world is add muscle mass. I think the issue is that people assume bulking is a dirty word and also equates to being fat.. yes, you are probably going to see some fat .. but it's about eating the right foods in the right quantities.. and then continuing to eat to maintain that muscle mass you that have added. Most people don't eat enough and wonder why they run grams of gear and don't get any bigger. .. or they eat enough on cycle and then stop when they are off and wonder why they lost all their gains.
No, not at all. They're different diets bro - completely. Different cardio. I don't see anything wrong with the whole lean or dry bulk idea, I just don't do it. From a chemistry perspective, I can write out different variations of lean bulk cycles - it's not like I have NEVER done it, I have in the past and I just prefer the ultra high calorie wet bulk and conventional cut. But, I really shouldn't say conventional cut cause I like ketogenic diets for fat loss. They don't work for everyone but you have to try it to see if it's right for you.
Rustyhooker+2
Exactly the point I was getting at. For example a lot of people "look" big due to fat and they get scared they will lose size when they diet but in reality they are losing fat which gives the appearance of losing size. So bulk when you bulk and cut when you cut. Only genetic freaks can lean bulk so for us little people we have to do one or the other or we fail at both. For example we have a member here who is on a "lean bulk" cycle. So far he only gained 1 pound and its been 3 weeks now possibly more. This member knows what he is doing too and hopefully he chimes in.
Yes. Good Post Bro + 2