+ 2 How dangerous are Anabolic Steroids really?
Let me preface this by saying that when I am advising other people on steroid use I always advocate caution. This means telling them to keep their cycles short and limited to as few anabolics as possible, having them take long periods of time off, avoiding compounds known for being hard on the body, and following proper on-cycle and PCT protocols.
That being said, when it comes to myself it’s a case of “do as I say, not as I do.” I do a lot of things that I would never recommend other people doing. I know the risks, but I guess what it comes down to is equal parts my physique is my career and the fact that I’ve always had an all-or-nothing kind of mentality.
Knowing full well that this will draw sharp criticism and ire from a number of people, I feel it’s necessary to discuss my “mistakes” as they are what has prompted my creating this topic in the first place. I’ve used anabolics for years, done monster cycles, used compounds known for being dangerous, taken numerous liver toxic orals at the same times, run cycles for longer periods of time, etc. That having been said, given all the hype regarding the dangers of steroid use, one would expect me to be experiencing some ill health, correct? And yet, despite all this, test after test has come back with me being completely healthy. Blood pressure tests, lipid profile test, blood and urine kidney and liver function tests everything says that I am the specimen of health. My wife is also an ultra sound technician. Since there are occasions where these tests can miss something, she periodically brings me in for scans of all my organs. These include imaging them, documenting pictures, taking measurements, and Doppler analysis of blood flow. So far, I am the model of health.
I say all this not to brag, or to encourage others to take unnecessary risks, but instead I hope to have an open discussion about the health risks associated with anabolic steroids. Are they as dangerous as we’ve been told? Do they pose as serious a health risk as I’ve been lead to believe? Or have all these issues been greatly over blown and exaggerated?
It should be noted that I have not had sperm count tests, so for purposes of this particular forum thread let us limit our discussion of health risks to those things that could potentially be considered life threatening.
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eryximachushttp://www.smh.com.au/national/young-men-dying-from-heart-disease-linked...
Also, this is an interesting study. It's hard to prove causation with steroids, since the diliterious effects seem to take years to manifest, even after ceasing use. But there are a lot of these studies like this one.
Of particular note, the majority of the studied patients also had cocaine and/or amphetamine in their systems at the time of death.
I think it is safe to say that steroids should not be used with stimulant drugs, at all. Ever. Sobriety in all things is probably the best thing you can do if you use gear, other than eating well and training effectively.
It would be interesting to compile data on other sports figures, and see mortality figures. Like, MLB players from the 1990s. Most of them were juicing. Is there death rate greater than average? Most of these guys are in their late 30s or 40s now.
eryximachushttp://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/09/pro-wrestling-star-the-ultimate-wa...
This topic never goes well on these boards, because there is a persistent belief that steroids are safe.
The first generation of users is only just starting to get to older age, and it increasingly seems like a long life eludes them. Wrestlers, bodybuilders - they drop dead all the time it seems.
You might not die tomorrow, but it increasingly seems as if AAS causes physiological changes that shorten life.
That said, I'm 36 and still considering running another mild cycle.
At the very least, I would say that users should at least take caution with dosages and substances. Back in Warrior's day, a typical cycle was like 200mg of deca a week with 20mg of dianabol or winstrol a day. And they are using pharma grade products, not bathtub oils.
For the people blasting and cruising 250mg of test a week year round and a gram of tren e a week a few months a year, I'd be worried.
Steroids are as dangerous, as the user is stupid.
Agreed
Stack with Lexapro.
WTF are you playing at?.............. understand what eroids is all about before you post or advise any shit like this again or i promise you will feel the weight of the hammer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escitalopram.......................... Nobody advises shit like this on this board, you wanna be a fkn junkie so be it but keep your shit away from this board..... are we clear?
Vitamin V, I didn't mean to insult you. I was feeling attacked for the wrong reasons and got defensive. I apologize. My intentions here are good. I thought people would laugh at my joke about Lexapro, not get upset about it. I also thought I was doing okay on my other msten post. I wasn't posting to argue, rather to learn. I could very well be wrong about this cycle I'm running right now. I would be happy to post bloods over there if that would help make this site more informative and valuable and more along the lines of principles being practiced here, which I am just now learning about. Peace.
So you already went around and dropped your hammer I see. My other post about msten does have merit, quite a bit in fact, and should not have been shut down by you. I am stacking with SD. So my results may just be due to the SD. I asked about msten for that exact reason to get some feedback from others that I respect about it. I said I have my opinions but I respect those here, WHICH IS WHY I WAS ASKING ABOUT IT. Not to keep a closed mind like you insinuated. My post was in regard to the compound, but if you guys want to make it about my health, I actually respect that and would have liked to taken the conversation in that direction. I could go today and get my bloods and post them for you all to see. But this seems to be far less about truth and more about an unconscious ego function.
I'm not being a cock here man. You are. Maybe I shouldn't have attempted the joke that set you off in the first place, and for that I'm regretful. But fuck, what a disappointment.
Calling a mod a cock isn't likely to help is it?
No. Sorry. I was feeling appalled and defensive. my bad.
If you want to stick around, I'd advise you make an apology RAPIDLY. If Viking sees this as it is, 99% sure you're out of here.
I've been trying to do that for the last minute or two. I can't send private messages? How do I apologize? Here on this thread?
Either FR him or post here.
Thank you SDM.
That was an attempt at humor bro. I was far from serious and would never think anyone would take that joke seriously. It's an anti-anxiety med, for folks stuck in their heads with over thinking and worry.
In britain calling someone a "cock" is an invitation to have teeth removed!........... just carry on im not annoyed but think before you post bro,thousands read these threads and a kid would jump on that shit faster than a whore swollen knob!.... we ALL must be careful with what we lay down on here ok.
Peace.
I've been watching a lot of British TV lately. I learned that one from Gordon Ramsey. lol Okay, I'm glad we're okay. I'll watch what I say and bit more carefully.
LOL
:)).......... +3
AAS are extremely safe, the side effects are known and pretty much preventable as long as your safe and not stupid
scroll down a little and read....
I stand by what I posted. If you wait for the proper age and run your cycles conservatively and diligently you will most likely come out of it healthy. Don't treat the drugs with respect and they will mess you up.
I believe that the drug themselves are relatively safe, they are pretty much synthetic versions of hormones that are organic to our bodies. However in the wrong hands I believe they can be extremely dangerous and possible deadly.
Not everyone is the same, in the wrong PERSON they are dangerous. Everyone is chemically and physically different. 250mg of test to you might be like 1000mg to another person. Someone with pre-existing conditions takes aas and it could kill them. What about those guys you see that are so prone to gyno they just look at a needle and they get lumps? Thats why it is so important to have bloods done before cycle and be in good health before you start.
eryximachusI'm sorry, but no. Biologically, most people are the same, especially if they are closely related, such as the extended family of a nation.
Your example of 250mg of test being equivalent to 1000mg of test in another person is simply false.
This "we're all different" nonsense is a relic of liberal/tabula rasa philosophy.
Biologically we are the same. We may all have similar genetic DNA but we do not have the same bodies and we do not all react the same to our environment and drugs. my wife is allergic to penicillin; I am not. Are we still the same? I can take a dose of 750 test a week for 8 weeks before my estro punches me in the face. The next person takes 250 test and within 3 weeks they have gyno. We all build tolerances and are exposed to different things in one form or another. Not all mothers follow the perfect 9 month pregnancy and not all fathers were perfect and those "problems" or "changes" affected their sperm as well. I think I might be going too deep for this topic but I hope you catch what I mean.
250 test will only shut down your natural production so it would make sense anyone running that small of an amount would get Gyno. 250 a week is not enough test
Based on what exactly? Read it somewhere? bloke in the gym said so? My first cycle was 250mg of test.
I know you mean well, but this is what we call parroting information with zero experience.
I have to LMFAO at that statement!................ WTF would you know about the power of test @different dosages at your age............. AND i fkn guarantee you have NEVER used real pharma test for any length of time or experimented with PHARMA and UGL with blood tests to see your own levels with each at differing dosages............ only time and commitment brings these these facts and you have neither being just out of the womb.
Come back with a proper explanation or i will slam you for putting out improper, useless information on my board.
250 a week should not cause gyno related effects to a high degree per say and depending on the person. My TRT dose of 150 a week does not even require me to run an AI believe it or not; because my body has a higher tolerance to estro related sides. Once I go over that threshold to 500 then I need to add a low dose (about .10) of arimidex E3D. My point was 250 a week in joe nobody could give him gyno or will give it to him but jack somebody would have no issues at all. It makes no sense that I could have low T but in the same regard have extremely low Estrodial. That is whats called genetics and family history. The women in my family tree are very hairy, sometimes are bigger loudmouths then the males, and look for fights more then the males as well. They have a higher affinity of testosterone and that was also passed to us kids.
You're talking out your ass on this one. You are wrong on this and all it would take is a little search to find this out. How about knowing what you're talking about before you post. Take the time to learn the lay of the land before you post.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to those extremely rare cases...
I couldn't agree more, I guess that didn't cross my mind at the time. I always put emphasis on getting blood work before and after. I'm all about running gear the safe and healthy way. IMO it doesn't make sense to trade health for beauty.
I am picking up what you are putting down right here.
I don't understand what you mean...
Its a saying, I am agreeing with you.
Okay, sometimes its hard to pick up on sarcasm... LOL
valhallas besttruat i know how dangerous and i would never do what half of these guys are doin on here... for me just gives me exponentially more than a 1000 times gains if i stayed away from test... therefore how much do u really need, and at what point do u start getting greedy and tip on the verge of addiction...
but duuuuuude i know how dangerous roids but i mean if there was a kid reading this rite now, comtemplating doing the hard shit and he read how many dangerous cycles youve done and that your now fine hed be like okay well fuck it, he got away with it so can i, maybe u should use someone else as an example who seriously fucked themselves before u start preaching the conservative use of roids and the dangers of them... remember its always people who go to prison n fuck their live up n get it together that have the most inspiring message sometimes but with roids u fuck up n u cant go back sonn... stuck in no test land, if there was a apocalyopse as soon as ur test was out you would be FUCKED
aylmejorThey're not. In the hands of the wrong person they can be tho. So can an apple.
well I also used a lot of compounds in my younger years, and quite often not the right way. I was also very healthy and had no issues. From my 20's to very early 30's I was a 'model of health' as you say. HOWEVER, I had some unfortunate news when I turned 33. It doesn't really matter what that news was, it is not the point of this thread. My point is, however, that just because I was 'healthy' and not showing any signs of damage does not mean that damage is not being done, or that one day everything will catch up to you. I say 'you' in the general term, not talking to the poster or anyone specific. You are healthy until you are not, if that makes any sense.
I don't believe anyone is blowing health risks out of proportion when it comes to gear. These are serious compounds and need to be respected.
AnonI am with you on this 100%. And it's not just because "I have health issues." The truth is that these are drugs that have physiological effects on a system that demands balance. And for every action, there will be a reaction. Some respond differently than others....
Coulda swore I read some tragically dumb shit a page or so back that we are all the same....yeah, like the same species, with very similar dna structures?? And an unlimited number or variety combinations occur across all lines of genetic variations within us. We are certainly not exactly the same.
And this brings me to my point of posting this, and why I appreciated your post so much....
Most of the knuckleheads that say "AAS is not dangerous" or is "relatively safe" if you just read enough online forums are usually in their 20's AND have no actual knowledge of how any of their own critical systems are functioning if there is no immediate alarm bell from a blood test! You are healthy right until you're not. It doesn't mean that there are not "safer" ways to do this, but fuck, don't be a moron. I have some serious stuff I'm dealing with that was inherited....Its not something "everyone" else has to worry about. And because of that, while I am assuming some risk like all of us are, I am proactive and I see specialists to monitor my condition. I also have some very careful protocols about how and what I use.
But, all this make believe shit these young guys are spouting off because they haven't yet received any bad news is laughable....and for those that don't? Even better. There is so much variation among us. I could not be happier for those that do this shit and don't have any real concerns down the road. Hey, it happens. But, those people would be as crazy as anyone (including me) to think that just because I haven't looked there's nothing wrong. If you think I'm crazy, that's fine, too. As I said, we are all assuming risk. All are trying to manage a series of concerns if they're smart and they want to grow old enough to see their children married off, or be a grandma or grandpa. But, c'mon man. Know that this is certainly not an HBO series where "the other guy" always gets the shitty role of the dice.
Hope all of ya'll stay safe out there.
BOOM! there are always those that want to believe they are the exception to the rule and somehow fate has skipped over them. You better believe this is a pay now or pay later endeavor... I fucked my AXIS up at 27... organs still pumping, thyroids still in tact and I plan on keeping it that way.... but you better believe that my knees are junk, I have RC issues, elbow tendon is acting up etc... There is always a price to pay and we like to think we are willing to pay it - until its time to pay
AnonPerfectly said. How many of these mutations who aren't dealing with any health issues would you bet are still in their 20's or have never checked a single thing out unless it required pain meds? lol
everyone wants to go to heaven but noone wants to die. fkn hate my elbow flareups, stopped me cold this week from working out.
56tooSo well said and the big problem is that many times the pmt doesn't come due til much later in life!!!
I think you make some good points. It's always impossible to tell what all the long term effects of anything will be. You just never know. However, I do have to admit that I've been surprised at not seeing anything show up on tests.
That having been said, the concern for those long term, unseen side effects is what causes me to promote caution and moderation when giving advice to others.
If, however, me who has admittedly been fairly irresponsible has seen little to no immediate effects, do you suppose that means someone using safe (or as safe as possible) protocols could do so in a completely healthy fashion?
I am not avoiding the question, but I am fairly new to the eroids community and wouldn't feel comfortable advising on the safety on gear, even if used "in a completely healthy fashion". I just wanted to share my experience.But there are no doubt some vets on here that could answer you much better than I could ever hope to lol The thing I will say is we are injecting a foreign substance into our body, so even if done properly, how healthy is that really? I could be way off base here, just a thought.
You do realize that mri's and xrays and ultrasounds do not show tissue damage or cell damage right? In order to see that they have to give you a thorough CT scan and you also have to have multiple complete blood works done. Once again its apples to oranges doing anything safely means exactly what it means, being stupid means there COULD be damage that will not show up until later on if you are unlucky. Or even if you live a completely healthy life.
x2
I do not feel I have enough experience to comment too much on this as I haven't even started my first cycle yet. But I have been reading a lot studying the dos and donts of steroid use and have changed my cycle over and over based on opinions that I have read. I am just curious about your age and how old were you when you started to use gear. I am 36 and have been all natural except for some otc supplements. I probably should start my own thread instead of commenting here but I've gotta start somewhere