posted Tue, 03/11/2014 - 18:54
2190
Carb timing
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Lets assume you eat 7 meals a day. In which 2 meals do you eat carbs in order to optimize your fatloss and maintain muscle?
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I say meal 2 and post workout. The reason being that as soon as you eat carbs in the morning you release insulin and overnight fat burning imediately stops as soon as insulin is released. So why not extend the overnight fat burning by eating a high fat, moderate protein breakfast to prevent the insulin spike. Then eat carbs in meal 2. I dont suggest eating carbs preworkout again because of the insulin release. Circulating insulin will prevent fat burning during the workout. Especially considering you're most insulin sensitive in the morning and post workout. If fat loss is the primary goal, I also suggest waiting 1 hour post workout to eat the carbs so you get the full benefit of the post workout growth hormone release. Remember growth hormone and insulin are mutually exclusive.
So are you talking about protein with no carbs pwo?....then carbs later? Here is why I think that's a not so hot theory: your body just spent all its carbs/stored glycogen during workout...now you just dump in a protein shake pwo and instead of your body storing the protein for recovery and growth, it will just attack the protein and burn it right off. Take in carbs with your protein, even a minute amount and it will help shuttle the protein(amino acids and such) straight into your muscles, exactly what you want. Protein and carbs pwo have a very strong symbiotic relationship. Just a thought
Actually depending on your pre workout nutrition its highly unlikely your glycogen stores will be completely burned off. If you had a decent sized carb and protein pre workout your muscle glycogen will not be depleted at all unless maybe a intense leg or back session for a hour and a half "where intra workout nutrition also comes into play". The beneficial effects of insulin and protein being both anabolic together is quite slight but in the case of being optimum then yes might as well do it. Research suggest there is no difference between 30grams of glucose vs 90grams of glucose having an increased anabolic effect with protien. They both increase it around 5-10% so if your going to do carbs post workout do like 20-30grams of dextrose or something but still not necessary like i said depending on your pre workout nutrition.
I agree with you here. I've also read studies showing no more protein synthesis with 90g carbs as opposed to 30. I guess how much post workout carbs you need tho would depend on the size of the individual. Obviously a 260lb pro bodybuilder is going to need more carbs to replenish their glycogen stores than the average 180lb guy on here. But protein synthesis and glycogen storage are also two different things.
yeah the synergistic effect of carbs/protein post workout is the only thing i would worry about so keep the carbs at the 30g mark. If your smart with your pre or intra workout you wont need to take in excess carbs or worry about glycogen storage post workout.
good point broseph
where did you come from?! lol...I like what you have to say. interesting points.
see I am just self-educated in all this and everything I am suggesting is what I have done with myself and/or with other ppl that I have supplied diet and exercise ideas to. I do "train" some ppl here and there...but its family and friends and its always worked for them too...so I just stick with the ideas I brought up. Some tweaking here and there of course...cuz its necessary as we are all different and our own metabolisms are quite unique to ourselves. No two ppl really are the same in how they respond to nutrition and training IMO
Yeah same i am just self-educated as well. Thats right man it really comes down to the individual person and how they respond as metabolism is different for everyone. Trial and error and tracking your response to certain protocols is the best and only real way to know whats best for you.
Exactly!! My good man
It depends on your goals. If muscle bulding is the goal then yes I agree with you, take in carbs with protein post workout. If pure fat loss is the goal, then I say wait 1hr to eat anything, then some protein and a small amount of carbs. I wasnt very clear, sorry about that.
I am still not so sure about that. Best time of the day for any kind of insulin release is upon waking and post-workout...fat burning or muscle building goals. Insulin itself is a wonderful anabolic hormone and timing its release will not impede upon fat loss. Build more muscle, you raise your resting metabolism and in turn encourage your body to burn more fat. Traditionally there are theories saying you can't build muscle and burn fat at the same time...but IMO that is complete bullshit. And no one says by building muscle you are "bulking"(which is another funny one, for some other time)...just build lean muscle.
I just came across something yesterday that was talking about whatever you eat for the first meal of the day is what your body will be programed to work off for that day. Sounds kinda bro sciencey really, but it agreed with my point on a fat and protein breakfast lol, if fat loss is the goal again of course.
Im also used to dealing with your average sedentary obese desk worker lol. They are way more concerned with fat loss than building muscle. Despite my best efforts, most are afraid of building muscle, so I do what I can. If you're a competitive bodybuilder on gear then its a different story too of course.
Good theories people
Im kinda digging DBG's more tho.
This is one of the great debates...I love it!!
In terms of maximizing fat loss you do not want to eat in the morning. It will Prevent a insulin spike and program your body to rely on fats more for energy great for in calorie or carb deficit. There is a concept that whatever you eat in the morning is what your body will be programmed to use as a priority for the rest of the day.
Thats why I like to eat a fat and protein breakfast. But I do think its important to eat pretty soon after getting up. So many different ways to go about dieting tho. Just have to find what works for you through trial and error.
781 pretty much has it. Or you could eat carbs pre and post workout...no matter what time of day your workouts are
Unless you are doing the carb back loading diet
Anybody else want to chime in? It's never right to assume there is one right answer. It may vary from person to person.
Breakfast and Post workout