First Deca Cycle
This will be me third cycle, and it won't be run for a few months so I have plenty of time to tweak things. All criticism is welcome, and all advice will be taken to heart. I am 33 years old, 6'0, 190 lbs, ~12-13% bf. I have or am currently running test, EQ, Dbol, drol (only as a PWO), SD, and var. As far as ancillaries I'm experienced with adex, aromasin (preferred over adex), proviron (love the feeling hate the hairloss), HCG, nolva, and clomid. I take low dose aspirin, liv 52, and milk thistle while on cycle.
I am looking to do an all out dirty bulk. I don't care where the pounds come from, I'll deal with fat and bloat another time. I will be eating any and everything I can get my hands on, which is tough for me. My goal is 4000-5000 cals per day.
I'm going with Dbol 2 on/2 off after the inital 4 weeks, but was thinking about maybe picking up a Dbol/drol injectable blend and running that pulsed 2 on/2 off. Or maybe just run the blend on heavy days. Give me your thoughts on this please.
Also, do I need to start caber right away?
I was sent 1 vial of NPP by mistake during a promo. Since I only have 1 vial, would it make sense to kick start the Deca?
I know it looks like a lot of compounds, but I see this as more of manipulating esters while using all ancillaries available. Manipulating esters is the reason I am using sust, and supplementing it with a little test p. I feel like Deca with a little NPP will get me to my goals quicker. Is my Deca dose even high enough?
Is this a well thought out cycle?
| Week | Drol | Sustanon | Test P | Deca | NPP | Aromasin | Caber | HCG | Clomid | Nolva |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 50 mg ED | 750 mg (250 mg MWF) | 50 mg MWF | 450 mg (150 mg MWF) | 100 mg MWF | 12.5 mg ED | .5 mg E4-5D (adjust as nec) | |||
| 2 | 50 mg | 750 mg MWF | 50 mg MWF | 450 mg (150 mg MWF) | 100 mg MWF | 12.5 mg ED | .5 mg E4-5D | |||
| 3 | 50 mg | 750 mg | 50 mg | 450 mg | 100 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | |||
| 4 | 50 mg | 750 mg | 50 mg | 450 mg | 100 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | |||
| 5 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 6 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 7 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 8 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 9 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 10 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 11 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 12 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 13 | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 14 | 50 mg ED | 750 mg | 450 mg | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | |||||
| 15 | 50 mg | 150 mg EOD | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 16 | 50 mg | 150 mg EOD | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 17 | 50 mg | 150 mg EOD | 12.5 mg | .5 mg | ||||||
| 18 | 12.5 mg | 2000iu EOD | 50 mg 2X ED | 20 mg ED | ||||||
| 19 | 12.5 mg | 2000iu EOD | 50 mg 2X ED | 20 mg ED | ||||||
| 20 | 6.25 mg | 2000iu EOD | 50 mg 2X ED | 20 mg ED | ||||||
| 21 | 6.25 mg | 50 mg 2X ED | 20 mg ED | |||||||
| 22 | 20 mg ED | |||||||||
| 23 | 20 mg ED |
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Get ready to blow bro. Im on my first cycle of Nandrolone and this stuff got me gaining size and strenght weekly. Take the experts advice on dosing this huge cycle you planning on, & best of luck, get ready buy XXL shirts by the end of this cycle. Peace!!!
AnonAlright bro seems to me that you have the right idea but ur not set up properly. Guys below bring up test prop and why use it. Test prop and tapering any cycle is a must if you plan on running a pct. It allows for tighter control of your end of cycle and allows for a quicker PCT. Ending the Deca use two weeks prior to Test is how u do it. In your case it's three weeks to allow the long esters of the Sustanon to exit while tapering with Prop is the way to go. Another thing is Sustanon has prop in it but real sust only has like 30mg of prop in it. 30mg won't kick start a moped let alone a dirty bulker. I'd keep it in there if you really wanna hit the gates running.The dbol? Eh:/ If your going to run NPP and Prop as a kicker you won't need te dbol. If you really want to bulk like a champ I would always pick anadrol to go with Deca. It's synergy is second to none compared to any two compounds I've ever run. But I digress:)
Here's how I would set up the AAS but keep in mind I've done more Deca stacks than you've done cycles entirely.
TestP 100mg eod wks 1-4 wks 14-16
Sust 600-750 a week pinned eod or MWF(depends on your experience level) wks 1-13
NPP 100mg eod wks 1-4
Deca 400-450mg wk wks 1-12
Bloods done pre cycle, wk 8 and @beginning of wk 16. This will be the roadmap for any and all adjustments to AI dosage and Caber dosages. Also you should look into Dr Scally Power PCT. It's pretty hardcore but works. Toss Aromasin and the caber in there with The pct and your set. Remember to allow the long esters of the Deca and Sust to leave your system and taper with Test Prop for a controlled and precise start to pct start pct 3 days post test prop injection. I'd take more bloods four weeks after pct to see how well u recovered. That's how I would do it but everyone's different and has their own opinions. All just as valid as mine. Good luck on this cycle homie.
Thanks for all of your help and experience brother. I have updated my layout to incorporate the power pct, and I have made a couple of other changes based off of the advice I've gotten. Please check it out when you can.
How about if he just pins his Prop on M/W/F/S. That way his pinning schedule with Prop wont turn out like M/W/F/S/T/T/S/M/W/F. He'll just pin back to back on Sunday/Monday. If he's Sust has 30mg of Prop in it wouldn't that be a lot of fluctuation up and down. As oppose to 130mg Prop total on M\W\F
250mg Sust M/W/F
100mg Prop M/W/F/S
IDK.... Maybe it just sounds better in my head...:-/
Thanks for your help bro. I've taken your advice and will wait for the end to run the dbol, and I'm planning on pinning like you suggest. If I pin on an EOD schedule with the prop, I would have some days at 30 mg prop, some at 100 mg, and some at 130 mg. That sounds like too much bouncing around to me. Now I should just have 1 spike in levels at the beginning of the week. My cycle layout is updated to show these changes, please take a look when you have a minute.
I've looked into Scally's results and the idea that Nolva is enough to take care of estro conversion from the HCG seems a little old school to me. I will add in the aromasin like you suggest. I have used and will be using the aro pct on this cycle, but the HCG blast makes sense after seeing actual proven results. Should I run caber all the way through pct? Or can I stop once the nandrolone esters clear?
I'll cut the prop back and use it just for my kick and taper. Like I said it was mainly in there because I was worried about the ratio, but since that shouldn't be an issue there's no sense in pinning the extra oil. I'll just go off of feel, and if my dick isn't as happy as it should be I'll up my test. Honestly I would like to use the least amount of mg's possible. That's why I would like to see what I can get out of the different esters.
I will consider the drol, but I'm more inclined to run Dbol. I have only run drol as a PWO mixed with Dbol. So my drol experience is pretty limited and since I'm new to the deca I wanna keep everything else as familiar as possible. Whichever oral I run I will wait until the end like A suggested. I understand Dbol isn't an ideal finisher, but I know what to expect as far as bloat and strength loss goes.
I will get at the minimum pre cycle and mid cycle bloods. Thanks for your help bro. I'll get this edited as soon as I get to my pc.
AnonYa bro I always recommend Aromasin be added to every PCT. I've been saying that for a long time. I've written about it a few times. Here's a couple pieces I wrote covering Aromasin and the second one I cover PCTs for 19nors.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pct-and-aromasin
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pct-my-2%C2%A2
Probably the only thing I've added to these principles is tapering each 19nor cycle with Test Prop while allowing the 19 to exit the system.
I'm with this plan all the way. Carlos and I build deca runs almost identically, so it's no suprise we agree on the set up. Only other thing I'd put in the mix us if you're running sust, you could also use the m/w/f injection scheme for the deca, you're doing it anyway with the test so some food for thought.
Thanks for the input bro. It would be no hassle at all to pin my deca like that, and I'm sure it leads to more stable blood levels. It's these little details I'm looking to fix and that's why I put this out there.
From following you, it almost seems like you've ran a cycle or two before.
Test prop? Why?
To raise my test:deca ratio up to 2:1. I like the idea of adding more prop to reach the ratio, instead of adding more sust. With the added prop I get the fast acting benefit of prop but still get the compounding from the sust's deca ester.
Do like carlos said and use it for the kick start and to close off the cycle in the end. Too much oil unnecessary pinning the whole cycle just up the dose on long esters. I also think NPP is nice the first 4-6 weeks to get the deca kicking in way sooner its a slow builder
also caber dose if its real good caber thats a little high. every 4 to 5 days is fine I've noticed but if you are very sensitive then you can always up the caber dose if necessary
Thanks bro. I assume by using the NPP prolactin issues could occur quicker than with deca alone. Are puffy nips and decreased libido all I should look at as indicators for prolactin issues? I know with estro I can associate 4-5 symptoms with my levels getting too high. I plan on getting on cycle bloods, but not til about the halfway point.
Yeah I know how to tell if my estro is high multiple ways but the easiest way is touching my nips. lol if they are sensitive I need to take AI. It's the most accurate indicator for my body. I used to go by if I was constipated or not because high estrogen causes constipation. But your food and water intake also affect that so I just use the nip sensitivity method haha
yes NPP will turn your dick off in a matter of days so keep test and estrogen levels in check
as for prolactin - puffy nips. Not sensitive but puffy. Low sex drive. Or lack in sex drive. Or inability to finish
Thanks for the info brother. I wasn't aware high estro led to constipation also, and thanks for the heads up on the prolactin sides.
AnonThe 2:1 ratio isn't a must. And I'd stick to a kicker and taper bro. Using prop to account for a weekly test dose for that ratio isn't how prop works. Prop isn't la ong enough ester to count it that way. I get what your thinking but it's not how it works. Kicker n Taper for this cycle.
AnonTest Prop? Why wouldn't he?
Edit: ah I see what u meant. I wouldn't run it all cycle either.
IMO pinning Sust following with Prop plus pinning Deca following with NPP is a lot of oil to pin. Especially on a M/W/F. How many injection sites do you have to rotate out? If kick starting with test prop and NPP having the Dbol at the begging would be kinda redundant to me. I would kick start your deca with the NPP. Drop the Test prop since your Sust already has the Prop in it and save the dbols for around week 10 or 12. Think about it like adding NOS to your car after you've hit top speed.
I currently use 6 sites but am breaking in my delts as we speak, so I'll have 8 sites by the time this rolls around. With the gear I'll be using, the sust/prop/deca will come to 2.5 ml, 3.5 ml if I run the NPP. If I split that into 2 seperate pins, I'd get 8-11 days off between using each site.
I do see your point about the prop being excessive. My intention there was to get my test:deca up to 2:1, as I've read that's where the ratio should be. I chose to add more prop instead of more sust mainly cuz I like the feel of the fast acting prop. I chose the sust as my base so I could get the compounding effect from the decanoate ester.
I was thinking the Dbol was overkill, and I'm gonna cut that back like you suggest. I'm not overly fond of orals anyway, and the more I can protect my liver the better.
Thanks for your input brother.