+ 5 Test to Tren ratios
OK, I'm at it again. Questioning "standard protocol"/ Before I go any further, I don't believe the majority of people should even venture down the tren path until they're a long way into their AAS life, if ever. I didn't enjoy my first tren run at all, in fact I still prefer to run cycles like Test / Deca if I'm honest.
This is the point of my post, and I quote:
"Run your test at TRT / lose dose and the tren higher, it keeps sides down". Does it? Are you sure? Maybe I'm an enigma, but it doesn't work that way for me. I've run a variety of test to tren ratios from 1:2 to 2:1, and that logic certainly doesn't work for everyone. This line gets regurgitated daily, often by those that haven't even used tren. By the time someone is in a position they feel they should be running tren they should be able to work out through trial and error what works for them. Tren is an advanced compound, and it still kicks my arse regularly.
I'll tell you what I know works for me:
- EOD injections definitely affects my sleep, ED all the way. If you can't face ED pinning, tren may not be the path to follow.
- Higher tren than test makes NO DIFFERENCE to my side effects.I've run as low as 25mg prop / 50mg tren a ed up to much higher doses.
- Eating carbs late in the day causes more night sweats. Whenever I run tren a it's generally dropping BF so I see no issue in dropping carbs after 2/3pm personally. If you train late in the day, maybe need to juggle your training times to allow you to not be in that position.
- HGH and tren give more more insomnia. I'm not the only one to report this.
- Decking / dropping my estro too low causes major irritability for me on tren. I'm a pretty level headed guy, but when this happens on tren, I get a very short fuse. If my estro creeps up a little, it's practically unnoticeable, but too low and I'm an arsehole to be around.
What I'm getting at is yet again moving away from "this is how you run tren, no other way etc". If I came on here asking for cycle advice using tren, I'd be guided in a fashion by some that doesn't work FOR ME.
One size doesn't fit all.....
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I'm loving your posts. The " box" is a nice guideline , but it takes a few years to really know your own body and responses. My last tren run was a higher test / lower tren run. I had great responses. If I advertised that, I'd have gotten the general responses about how I was running it wrong. It worked great for me. No real prolactin issues, all the great benefits of a tren run, and pretty minimal sides besides reduced endurance I cut body fat by 3 % and gained 15 pounds. I don't see any reason to change that one in the future. One size doesn't fit all. Respect for saying it.
I agree with you about this higher tren than test rule, the only person who knows what works is yourself once you know your body well enough. Higher test clearly works for some of us (me included).
RustyhookerFinished first tren run couple months back. Virtually no sides. Definitly had to keep body in check daily! Not for tge person who's not very famikiar with sides, bp etc.
Suggest to never skimp on pct after a tren run. I ran normal peptides and week 4 was still a damn crybaby. Switcged to quality pct and leveled out nicely. 6 week pct if you're not done and recovered. Definitly a chore running tren.. Great sex, pumps etc but no endurance at all.
This backs up what I'm saying about everyone being different. I never have the pct issues on tren, but on deca...... Never anything wrong with an aggressive pct strategy.
It depends on ESTROGEN. If you control estrogen on high test then it doesn't matter. Sure my aggression is a little higher when test is above 500mg on tren. But I'm lucky to have an understanding girl who knows the sides of tren. I still think 400-600mg test and 600mg tren is pretty much a sweet spot. If then tren is really good then only need about 400mg to hit the spot where your skin is shredded and veins ripping. Lower dose tren is fine too if you just wanna bulk and use the test as the main thing just keep control of estrogen you will be all right.
Proviron I have noticed is almost necessary!! It really helps reduce estrogen sides and it makes the tren more effective! On tren or deca I keep estrogen lower than I would on other cycles.
The biggest lesson I learned on tren is: There is no standard protocol!!! A friend of mine cannot hit mroe than 250mg test per week on tren or he goes BALLISTIC!!! Me I can hit a gram of each and still keep my aggression in line. It's all about self awareness and knowing your body. If you do not know how to control side effects, then tren is not for you. You need to be able to know when your estrogen is high and when it is low. For me I get constipated and headaches when estrogen is high. I get watery stool and very tired on low estrogen. Changing AI dose isn't always the best option. If my estrogen is too low I keep AI same dose but raise test dose. If my estrogen is too high I lower test or add in proviron. Best to keep AI the same because messing with AI gets too tricky sometimes
Another excellent and practical post SDM. For the first time ever, I am trying the low test with my Tren and honestly was expecting nirvana based upon what others were saying. Are the sides less? Hard to say which really means not really.
Again, totally agree with your comments on the estro. I finally feel like I have dialed in my AIs (almost) and that has eliminated more sides than anything else did.
Why don't you try it sub-q? I'm running 100mg/d right now with no sides except lots of muscle growth and some nerve pains in my hands when achieving massive pumps. It will change the way you look at tren.
I've been keeping an eye on your post Noid, definitely on my radar.
Well brother everything you mention up there I experience or have experienced. And like you ive tried all kinds of shit to make tren work. And ive looked as those bottles and thought about throwing them out many a times. And boom look what I stumbled on. Im at work but when I get home I will give you an in depth report of where im at with this.
I'd appreciate the info, always interested to look at things in a new light.
normally if i pin tren in the AM by that night I got insomnia, ill get 2 hours sleep and the rest of the night is sweats, cant get comfortable, go sleep on the couch, day dream sleeping at best, anything above 35mg/d and this will happen. doesnt matter about carbs, protein, pin in the AM or PM, test high or low, really im just fucked. my tren cycles without other compounds have always been a recomp with a little growth, but mainly a recomp.
this is what I have noticed so far. my first day I pinned at night and slept great, my second day I pinned in the morn and had a tren type of sleep but still much better as I was able to stay in my own bed and fall back a sleep, every day since ive pinned at night and slept like im off cycle. a couple things to note about this, the first is I have never had a deep sleep on a tren cycle, never had more then a few hours of sleep a night. And it is clear obvious my body is growing right now, my mornings feel awesome like im on D-bol and filling out with water, body is nice and tight. The next thing to note here is im not getting any kind of night sweats, any kind of the weird body flexing I would do at night, and I would guess that I burn more calories in a day dreaming sleep then a deep sleep. So what im getting at is I feel like im not getting the same burning fat rate that tren is known for. Also im getting some kick ass pumps right now, not really sure why that is, maybe it has something to do with getting great sleep im not sure. tren and growth equals a really shitty night of sleep, im gonna throw 2iu of growth in the mix tomorrow morn and see how that effects me. im not experiencing any anxiety right now but that could be me, hard to say im pretty level headed until about week 3 of 2 hours a night sleep. the gym has been very nice, actually today i did morn and afternoon cause im gonna be off for a few days, I planned on hitting it easy in the afternoon but got into it and carried away. Am I getting the full 100mg/d dose? I dont know! But with the sleep it feels alot better then the 125mg/d I was running.
just to update this, i havent been able to run tren and growth due to some horrible sleep sides as I stated in this post above. I added in 2ui and have bumped it each day as i experienced no sides. right now im running 5ui and 150mg/d tren-a with no sleep sides at all.
Still feel like you're absorbing the tren ok sub q?
Feels fine to me.
I'm sleeping fine at the moment, but you've got the curiosity bit of my brain engaged now! I'm going to give the sub q method a whirl towards the end of the cycle and report back.
if your taking your shirt off you will also have to explain why there is several reddish welts where ever your pinning.
At the risk of embarrassing myself I'm going to ask a foolish question. What are the sides of tren? I expect insomnia, night sweats, anger and emotional swings. Every day injections are a easily explained given that we are dealing with acetate which halves itself in about a day an a half. It would make sense since your peaking and bottoming day to day.
My point is, I expect these sides before hand and I mentally prepare myself before I start cycle. If I'm crying like a little bitch over a commercial it tells me I need to check my e levels but not kill them. I also have to remind myself that I am on a substance that is doing this to me. When I want strength and stamina with a little size I up the test ratio and when I want to burn fat around the chest and midsection I up the tren ratio. I do not see any one way to run tren other than smartly and safely.
aylmejorLow test for for cutting. Raise the test when adding size!
But yes ppl need to stop thinking everything has to be done a certain way. We are all diff I like diff things
Exactly!!! This is just another prove that in bodybuilding is ALL about trial & error.
We are the lab rats RR, that's reality. There rarely is a black / white answer that applies to all.