Couple days back had a discussion with a guy that imo should not be doing steroids yet. Tall and skinny declaring hes a hardgainer and this was his only option. Got into the discussion and it came down to calories. His argument is he cant ever get above 5000 and I just dont know what its like because Im already thick as hell. Hmmm? So lets look at reality first and how to repair it after. Reality is that in my best condition I was 205 and 8% bf...just in March this year. BUT...I started lifting my ass off the "old school" way 27 years ago. Old school...all iron and sweat. Yes, I too was a hardgainer. How many reading this right now remember their first cycle and it blasted them over 200 the first time? Point made. So now the cure for hardgainers is now and alwasy has been food. Boring old food. If you dont have your food and body figured out the fact is that you will LOSE all your gains regardless of the gym. When I was younger I studied old principles of Parillo and Poloquin(google em). Best power trainers there is imo. I jusmped to 8000 calories per day. So now back to the example of the 5000 calorie guy the other day. He eats everything but cant get over that 5000 mark. Go to the local health store and get the 1200 calorie carb/protein drinks. Read the label and know your carbs!! Getting most of the carbs from medium and long chain sugars is key. Now, add that to the principle that was noted as "Eat like a king, a prince, and a pauper". Morning meal should be your big boy bfast of your eggs, oats etc PLUS your 1200 cal drink. Same with noon meal of chicken, yams or brown rice. Right there is 2400 extra calories!! Now Mr 5000 just quickly got to 7400. The principle of king prince pauper fits in like this; Morning you eat BIG like a king. mid morning you have your chicken and red potatoes. Lunch is your Prince meal. Leaner in the fats with chicken breast and brown rice plus your calorie drink. Midday is lean chicken or fish snack with a fruit. Dinner is your pauper meal. LEAN and NO CARBS. That way your going into the gym carb loaded yet will burn the excess and stay somewhat lean easily. Working out NATTY..No roids...modified meal for two months and you should see both mass and weight gain. If not then midday snack time you add in that third calorie shake for another 1200 cals. You're a hardgainer, so typically if your exercise stays hardcore you shouldn't see much fat added. If you get the pinch an inch then keep calories at that current level and add in 20 mins bike or treadmill after workout. Not enough to steal calories from your weight/mass/muscles but just enough to keep the gains real. Lifting hard with compound movements is the best way to pump on the MASS your wanting. Think about how thick powerlifters get. Solid and dense muscle only comes from those hard solid lifts. Marius P worlds strongest man is the best visual for a solid powerlifter imo. To end, this world of bodybuilding is a lifetime goal. Not just short term. Learning your body and your bodies action leads everything you do and builds who you are. Don't lose those goals simply because of food. Thank You!