dmueller9834's picture
dmueller9834
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+ 2 Wanted To Apologize for Immature Cycle Idea, Want Actual Help And Positive Input.

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Dear All,

I wanted to firstly apologize for making a thread that consisted of a very immature cycle construction. I deserved all the bashing I got and I am honestly wanting to learn from my immature post and learn from all the best posters on this board. I have researched alot for several years and I didn't explain myself very clearly in my original cycle post. I respect the knowledge of everyone on this board. I wanted to ask several questions in this thread: is it ok to run an oral and injectable for first cycle (i've seen it done properly and I've seen it done improperly). Could an injection and a prohormone be used in conjuction properly? I ask this because I have a stash and I just don't want to waste them. I'm sure they could be used to some benefit and sides could be controlled. I know most cycles are maximum 12 weeks and most choose Test E due to amount of pinning and usually done Sunday / Thurs, or Monday / Friday. I assume most do it Sun / Thurs so one injection is on the weekend and one is during the week. My rotate sites and do quads / glutes. Alternating quads and or alternating quads. I know area should be sterlized and alcohol wiped prior to injection. Many people will warm up oil under warm running water, helps in ease of injection for first time users. Many first cycles are 500mg Test E which is a solid start and would equate to 250mg twice weekly. I would prefer to do test E due to the above facts and suggestions I've recieved before. I know PCT starts 2 to 3 weeks after last injection so the ester can clear. What if running an oral PH or AAS product, is the layover still 2-3 weeks I would assume so.

Cycle History - 19nor Tren, 8 weeks, gains = 34 lbs; 19nor tren and pheraplex, 6 week bridge, gains = 25 lbs.

History - Powerlifted, use tren for strength gains to be better. Did use at 150 pounds, used tren for lean gains, changed to bodybuilding and went to 185. Held 181 lbs for 5 months then came down with severe stomach flu for 2 weeks, went down to 160 lbs. Got back up to 180lbs, used tren and phera went to roughly 205's. Held consistent. Naturally got up to 210's (mispoke in my last thread, I actually typed 220's it was suppose to BE 210's). Held that for well over a year, got a bodybuidling coach and was set for a show in August of 2011. Was doing incline bb bench, went home and was playing with my rottweiler puppy and was messing around on the floor and jumped on quick while laying all my weight on my left shoulder. When I got up I dislocated my shoulder, popped it back in and went I did severly tore my posterior labrum. Had surgery July 6th, was able to lift legs but no squats 8 weeks later. Was actually hitting it hard by Feburary. Lost a bunch of weight, went 205 down to mid 160's. Had sever depression, now finally over one year removed from surgery I am low 190's. 188-191lbs daily. I ama 110% recovered and shoulder is better then it was before.

Cycle Sides - Used clomid, liver care and 6bromo in my second cycle for pct. Made a mistake and crushed estro while on a SERM and everntually got slight rebound gyno. To help combate this effect in the future I will use an AI during cycle and in PCT if needed and instructed to do so by posters here.

Cycle Idea:

-Prefer to have test and use of some PH that I currently have
-Prferred length would be 12 weeks
-Preferred Test Base would be TEST E

Please input if you see something that should be changed, thanks.

*Weeks 1-12: Muta Test E (either 250mg x 10ml or 500mgx x 10ml), injected twice weekly at 250mg to 300mg for each injection, total 500mg-600mg weekly
*Weeks 2-10: Tren-E Prohormone or / Max LMG (haven't ran LMG ever would need to research dosing (tren 90/90/90/90/120/120/150/150). Both of these can elicit prolactin sides
*Weeks 1-10/12: Cabergoline at.5mg twice weekly, 3 times weekly if needed
*Weeks 1-12: Aromasin / Exemestane, start at 6.25mg daily, up dose if needed
*Weeks 1-12: Cycle Assist, US Himayla Liver Care, Joint Support, Fish Oil, Celery Seed Extract, Mulit Vitamin, Garlic Bub, CLA, Digestive enzymes
*Weeks 14-19: Clomid (100/100/50/50/25), Nolva (40/40/20/20/10), Liv.52 DS (2/2/2/2/2), Test Force Two "in scoops daily" (4/2/2/2/2/), aromasin (how should I dose this to combat estro rebound after SERM usage), Cortisol blocker "reverese taper" (0/0/3/2/2/2/1).

How is the above constructed. I feel that my PCT is very solid, any suggestions to my PCT, does it look right? Is the actual AAS portion of my cycle good for a first run. About the pro-hormones, I had these on hand in case I couldnt use the gear and was unsure if I wanted to take the legal risk at first. Since I have these on hand I would prefer to use them the best I could and incoporate them in any way possible. I am fully capable of researching and gaining advice, I would like a positive direction input and support. I have full PCT and full prohomones and all supports on hand and ready to go. Only thing that is missing is injectable AAS source (Test e, etc) and injectable accessories such as: pins, alcohol wipes. I would really like some input and I will take everthing into consideration. I am a senior dietetic student at a major university so I know how nutrition plays a major role in gains. Also currently running a 5 day split workout (mon - quads / hips / abs; tues - chest / biceps / calfs; wed - off; thurs - lower back, hips, hamstrings, abs; friday - upper back, calfs, traps; saturday - shoulders, tricpes, abs).

Thanks for everything everyone.

D

sb233's picture

Sounds like you have a solid base man.
Hope your cycle helps you achieve your goals Smile

Since its not your 1st cycle and since you have already gone hard and used Tren, and since you want to do a bodybuilding show and pack on some serious mass, it might be beneficial to use 600 or even 750mg/week of Test E.
Trust me you will still have massive gains from this much Test !
You just have to eat HUGE and train HARD !

How much fat are you carrying at the moment ? Extra BF% makes you more susceptible to gyno. You will also gain some fat on cycle. If you start low BF% then you can just EAT and grow. Remember that Eating is just as important as going to the gym if you want to gain muscle.
So cut that fat off, eliminate gyno risk, get your diet right then do a 12 week cycle of Test E @600mg/week.

Weeks 1-12 Test E @600mgs/Week.
14-21 days after your last injection start your SERM treatment.
wk 14-16 Clomid @ 50mg/ED (100mg/ED first 7 days)
wk 14-16 Nolva @ 20mg/ED (40mg/ED first 7 days)
Aromasin when needed (watch them nipples!) haha

TRAIN HARD, EAT BIG and EXPLODE !
Then PCT right ;)

Do your cycle right and reap some HUUUGE rewards Smile
Good luck and be safe !

joker's picture

Wow! Hey dude I'm no pro at this. But I can say you need to do a lot more research on what you plan on taking. You already made a major mistake not once but twice. You ran Tren with out running test with it!! What we're you thinking?? Imo you are in beginner status and you shouldn't run anything other then a test only cycle at this moment. If your lucky you might keep what you havnt already lost. There is plenty of info if you look for it, but at this point asking questions about other gear is pointless. We're not here to help you make yourself worse, we are a conscience forum. And we will try are best to help you with good advice. Like what has been given which is test only cycle. But I see you bouncing around still determined to go outside our recommendations. Your to young for this shit in the first place. You remind me of a kid I know that is ruined for life at the age of 28 because he was in such a hurry. Just stop for a moment please! And take what we say seriously and your health seriously. There is so many variables in his game we play and some are not reversible. Just chill slow down and only run a test cycle you will like it...

dmueller9834's picture

Thanks for the concern and the kind words. I have decided on Test E at 500 to 600 EW (weeks 1-12). I have kept plenty gains as you can see by my pic plus I was out 9 months with complete labrum surgery. I have already sold most of my PH's. The only thing I have kept is two bottles superdrol (kicker later on) and two bottles epistane (might help cut or I can sell it). I have the body and the ability to compete at a very high level on the NPC bodybuilding stage. Most guys use since it's untested the playing field needs to be equal. 24 is too young for AAS, most bodybuilders start well before 24 and age 25 is the prime age to start if you are going to start. Again research says 25 but people are different. I am fine running test e only, however I met with my bodybuilding coach and he said that since my receptors are not "fresh" that test e would best be ran with something. He said to run EQ but I know that it should be ran for about 14-16 weeks in length. So I'm coming for more advice I know my base is TEST-E, but do you guys agree with my coache's statement. I will admit I was looking at DBOL as a 4 week kicker, but would that be of benefit for my first run ? Again if anything needs adjustment please let me know as I have everything in hand (on cycle support, AI, PCT, all support supps, needles, gloves, alcohol wipes; only need the actual gear). Hey atleast I'm not a dumb ass not having his PCT and AI in hand before cycle.

DM

joker's picture

EQ, imo is a safe route to go while stacking but do a 16 week cycle with it. 14 just doesn't seem to be long enough for me. As a kicker yes dbol would be good for the first 4 weeks only, you should be running a good liver support as well. Hcg would be helpfull for you too, it will help with keeping your natural test producing. Since it sounds like you want to keep it simple with test e/dbol/EQ. Toward the end of your cycle if you really want to cut and create more muscle definition run anavar at 50-80mg ed for the last 2 months. Anavar is our safest compound to run and it has great results. If you could I would try to run it the length of your cycle. Kind of expensive, that's why I say the last couple of months of your cycle.

dmueller9834's picture

Awesome man,

Great setup. Would it be even a ok idea to run something like just Test and Dbol. Keep EQ for my next cycle (which would be longer then 12 weeks). Overall everything looks awesome!

DM

joker's picture

After reading more and more about you... Undertaker is right, just as I said before you should really only focus on running a test E/C cycle. You yourself, are so unsure as to what you want to do. When we come into cycle we have everything laid out long before even starting cycle. Our pct and our gear, like I know what I was going to run on my next cycle from my last cycle. You sir do not know what you want to do. This being said it is safe to say you should only run a test only cycle. Then during this cycle you can figure out what you want for your next. It really does sound like you want to bite off more then you can chew. When you stack compounds you can run into problems real quick and not know which is causing the problem. For a good example: last cycle I was a complete mess, I had a adverse reaction to Deca/Npp due to the doc prescribing me prednisone for a weird condition. Well not knowing what the Hell was wrong because I was stacking way to many compounds. With the help of our community we narrowed it down. It's somthing you do not want to run into. I was in and out of my doctors office frequently trying to figure out what was causing my flare up. I lost most of my gains and had to switch up my cycle mid cycle which is never good.
So are you ready for a miserable experience? And hey from what it looks like, you have never even ran a test cycle at all just a Tren only cycle. Dude my best cycle was my first and it was test only. Just do test only already were not here to help you hurt yourself.

dmueller9834's picture

I have my PCT completely laid out and its exactly how everyone suggested. Only thing I have a question on is aromasin 12.5mg ED or as needed. I've seen several posts.

PCT:
Clomid - 100/75/75/50/50
Nolva - 40/20/20/10/10
Test Force 2 in scoops - 4/2/2/2/2
Aromasin - ?
Liv.52 DS in caps - 2/2/2/2/2
Cortisol Blocker - 0/0/3/3/2/2/1/1

fast48's picture

Aromasin is an Every Day ai because halflife is short. When estro hits start at 6.75 & move up to 12.5 Every Day as needed. Its not like adex with e3d dosing.

I'm getting tired of gyno posts and pm becaise misusing ai. Study your half lives!

overjuicedbull's picture

if your gettin tired then leave the forum and stop bitchin you puts

joker's picture

When I ran aromisin at 12.5 ed my joints and tendons dried out so bad I could barely walk and I'm still recovering from it. Now this might not be for everyone but it surely happened to me. When I kicked it down to 6.25 eod as tread suggested my estrogen stayed in check and my joints began to recover after a month or so.
I don't know why I was affected this way but it was obvious what was causing my problems. I wasn't experiencing gyno but was experiencing higher estrogen then normal sensitive nipples, bloat, moodiness, etc. I would guess it really depends on who you are and how it affects ones self.

joker's picture

Yea that's funny you mentioned estrogen injections. I literally got a hold of some estrogen pills from someone I know in order bring back my estrogen. Which helped out a lot, made feet Hella weird but I could feel the joints and tendons loosen up after abouta week. Scared the shift out of me bro! Muta sent me some NPP to help as well which worked. But I still think I'm recovering from that incident. I was hitting the arom ed as recommended and it worked well to well. We have to remember aromisin was meant to be used on woman with super high estrogen levels that are combating cancer. A woman's estrogen levels are way higher then us men even when we're on cycle. Let alone if a woman is running high enough estrogen to cause cancer. Now I only take 6.25 eod and it seems to be just fine. Right now I'm running 1g test ew 300mg Tren a ew 300mg mast p ew. So far my estro seems to be good, my nipples are my monitors.

joker's picture

Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

joker's picture

Do not run aromisin ed.... I don't start aromosin until around my second week or somettimes I even wait till later in cycle when I notice my estrogen levels are feeling high. If you start off in the second week of cycle only run aromisin 6.25mg eod or as needed sometimes you might want to increase to 12.5 eod just to get control of your estrogen if it's to high. But don't run aromisin to much. It will dry out your tendons and joints. So keep it in moderation.

6.25 eod at the end of your second week should be enough for you. But then again were all different, its better to be safe then sorry. I've ran aromisin to high before and it jacked up my tendons and joints. We do need a little estrogen in our body's it's what keeps us lubed up.

Undertaker's picture

Forget the dbol and the eq. Just run test e/c for the 12 weeks. make sure you have ai and pct before you start.

dmueller9834's picture

What I have on hand:

  • Celery Seed Extract (120 x 75mg)
  • Competitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist (all in one, really a great product; controls acne, blood pressure, prostate, liver, heart health)
  • Taurine
  • Joint Support
  • Himalya Liver Care (2 bottles, 180 caps per bottle, on cycle)
  • Himalya Liv.52 DS (8 bottles, post cycle support)
  • Clomid
  • Nolva
  • Exemestane
  • CLA
  • Fish Oil
  • DAA product (Test Force Two)
  • 100 18gx1.5in draw needle
  • 100 23gx1.5in application needle
  • 50 pairs of gloves
  • 200 alcohol wipes
  • 28 hawthorne berry caps (2 week pre-load at 2 caps per day)
  • Multivitamin
  • Cortisol Blocker

I believe that is good, alot of this stuff I take everyday (such as the CLA, Fish Oil, etc)

dmueller9834's picture

My bad about the two threads, will read this link when I get a chance.

Thanks .

dmueller9834's picture

Thanks for the advice apperticate the input. I am still a little confused with how my gyno was delayed in formation.

Wrath's picture

Testosterone(your choice of ester), aromasin, clomid, nolvadex, syringes, go! Fuck the prohormones, throw them out. Eat, sleep, and lift proper, and enjoy the ride.

dmueller9834's picture

Check to all of the above except for the test and syringes. Everything else I have bro. Thinking of selling all my PH's and buying some real stuff!

Thanks for the help!!

jimmie's picture

Make sure if you sell that crap that is goes to someone who you despise.

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dmueller9834's picture

Ill start posting up my lots for sale on some forum websites, move product best I can.

Catalyst's picture

Have you really taken the advice on board from your last post? Doesn't look like it to me. Several people advised you to stay away from tren, yet it's still in your cycle.

I credit you for taking the critique like a man, but you've run a lot of stupid stuff so far, especially considering your age is only 23. You've got plenty of natural test at your age, you don't even need gear to make good gains at the moment. From the decisions you've previously made, it appears that you have a "want it all quickly" mentality which led you to use PH 's etc. This is a long haul game, not a race, what's your rush? Seems like you haven't spent much time trying to gain naturally from where I am.

It's your body, respect that. If you must run a cycle just run 12 weeks of test e.

dmueller9834's picture

SDM - I am now content with staying away from tren, thats fine. I thought I could incoporate it somehow, since I've runned it in the past and made good gains. Was just sticking with something I knew and how it reacted with me. Rush I guess - wanting to compete high in the NPC bodybuilding, did powerlifting to a great level now want the same thing but with bodybuilding. I know gear must be used to compete with the highest.

Catalyst's picture

Good decision. You're a young guy, don't be in such a rush. A well planned simple cycle will yield great results if you eat right and train hard.

XvBeast's picture

Testostrone only is fucken amazing , try it

dmueller9834's picture

I was think test e 500-600 mg weekly

XvBeast's picture

this is ur third cycle? I definitly respect people who do sports competitively, Did u get blood tested to make sure, that everything is ok ? why are u running this cycle? for powerlifting or just cosmetic reasons? I think this cycle is a little extreme. u can still make gains off a test e w/ a prop kicker cycle, thats a easy 15-25lb. honestly i would stay away from tren for as long as possible. have u had extreme sides from past tren cycles? ...also prohormones are the worst, i know so many ppl who ended up on TRT cuz of prohormones.

so in conclusion , this is a bad cycle, and im curious why u want to do it

dmueller9834's picture

This is now for bodybuilding, competed high in powerlifting now wanting more of a challenge. Want to be high standings in the NPC division. No extreme sides, actually I felt awesome on tren but the other compound phera plex felt so "dirty". Tren yielded amazing strength gains. Example @ 160 lbs was doing 315x1-2 fully fresh, when I got to 181 I was doing 355x5 after a pyramid bench workout of 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps, 3 reps and 2 reps. I have no issue running test with an additional safe oral or kicker. This was exactly what I was hoping for - ideas that I could pass around with you guys. How dose my pct look? Is aromasin started wk 3 due to ester kick in time? Start at 6.25mg daily or something different?

XvBeast's picture

Well if ur in bodybuilding now, then u know that this is a long goal since bodybuilding is also a life style. go with the test w/ a kicker. take the tren later on when u have more experience , then u will be able to use it to its full effect.

with test w/ kicker

try this , personally i dont like orals , i dont think they are as healthy

Week 1-12 Test E @ 500mg
Week 1-4 Test Prop @ 150 mg EOD
Start w/ Aromasin by the first week after the fist injection @ 12.5 mg ED till the last injection
Week 12 - 13 Test Prop @ 150mg EOD
Week 14 Test prop @ 100 mg
Week 14 take PCT
clomid 100 for 2 weeks then clomid for 50 for 2 weeek
nolva 40 for 2 weeks then nolva for 2 weeks.

and u should be able to bounce quick , keep like this and dont run AI during PCT. Also other members will give u optional cycles , they should be coming in ..

Undertaker's picture

Since you are new to pinning you may want to rethink the prop kick. thats alot of pins for someone new. Stick to the test E 500mg split injection 250mg monday, 250mg thursday. The pip on prop can be rough especially for somebody new. If you want to finish with the prop taper like stated above PCT will start 3 days after last pin.

XvBeast's picture

whops , i thought this was his third cycle, aha man wtf

dmueller9834's picture

I was thinking this as well man. If pinning were every day I would probably have a hard time walking lol. Best areas of injection - would assume alternating glutes and quads? Any other spots? Also which brand would be a good first run? I have heard great things from Muta and how it can even flow thru a Slin pin? Specific gauge in needles suggested for first run?

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Excellant point!... +3 brother.

dmueller9834's picture

Viking - didn't mean to discredit your advice in the other thread, I consider myself different from the other young ins meaning ill take all the advice given. Was going to PM you an apology as I would really like your advice.

Undertaker's picture

Thanks V.

dmueller9834's picture

UT - Could I sub the test prop for a four week dbol kick. If you could please read my above reply to jester for full information.

Thanks for all the advice,

DM

dmueller9834's picture

Great layout, looks awesome. From the looks of it, I got all the goodies needed except the the actual gear needed for the cycle.

Thanks man!

dmueller9834's picture

Had testing done about 1 year ago, everything came back great, liver was good, test was in range, cholesterol and all the usuals were within specs. Hemoglobin was high though maybe 15.5-16? That seems about right from the number I remember.

XvBeast's picture

personally i would never do tren first ahead of other compounds. u can still make gains off test only or test w/ a kicker. also tren for 8 weeks is a long time and its going to be taxing. the idea is to do lighter cycles such as test only to be able to bounce back up quickly and keep ur gains. then recover and run another one after along enough break is taken. tren is extreme , u could make the same gain w/ test and cardio. but thats me. just dont wana see u get hurt. so that my advise , take it or leave it

dmueller9834's picture

I've realized I've done my past cycles backwards. I'm open to starting anew with the new mindset I have. I believe I have everything on hand needed except for pins and test. I get ur point totally and I completely understand your advice and will take it to heart. I knew tren injects were extreme just never knew that oral 19nor tren was honestly that taxing. If we could substitute something in place of tren that's fine with me and if we want to ditch it all together and run test that's fine too. Thanks for bouncing ideas around man that's was I was hoping would happen in this thread.
Thanks.

XvBeast's picture

oral tren is the worst shit IMO, injecting is way better for u

dmueller9834's picture

I knew there were some oral tren's that were absoulte horrid for you. Never completely knew that a 19nor unmethylated was that bad. Thanks for bit of information. Thanks for the help so far.

jimmie's picture

I did it many years ago before I knew anything about anything, just saw a report on the news about and that it was so close to the real thing. So I went out and bought some. My freakin kidneys and liver were killing me shortly after. Then I got a stomache ulcer. Now during very stressful times the ulcer flames up and is very painful.

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coronalight's picture

Id just treat this as a first cycle. run test e 500 mg a week.and start pct 15 days after last shot.make sure you have an ai on hand too.I wouldn't even worry about other compounds right now. if your diet is in check and your training right test will be all you need.

dmueller9834's picture

Ok test e looks like the basic which I'm openyonall supportive ideas. Aromasin is on hand, would you dose during pct to prevent rebound after SERM usage?

jimmie's picture

continue ai until starting pct

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