Ok brother after re-reading and watching your responses. I can tell you don't want to mess yourself up and really are asking for help with a good cycle. But a TEST,DECA TREN, Dbol is not they way to do this.
You don't need everything all at once. Need to understand the compounds, so you can put them together. You want mass look into EQ, TEST, and Dbol(as a kicker and only for 4 weeks) and how you can put them together for a cycle.
IMO
1-4 Dbol @ 50mg ED
1-18 Test E @ 500mg a week split
1-16 EQ @ 600mg a week split
Pct 15 days after last test E shot.
You need to have Clomid in your PCT!!!
Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
LISTEN, if u opt with deca u MUST have letro and caber on hand just in case bc if u don't that's usually when something like gyno shows up..... And no Aromasin can't replace them
AND a simple diet plan for mass/bulking that I use myself (205lbs):
You have to eat every few hours so you cannot start meal 1 at 9AM
Meal 1: 10 egg whites and 3 whole eggs=50g protein, 1.5 cup oats
Meal 2: 2 8 oz. chicken breast=50g protein, 1.5 cup mashed sweet potato
Preworkout : 2 scoop whey=approx 50g protein,1 cup oats
Post workout: 2 8 oz. chicken breast=50g protein, 1.5 cup brown rice
Meal 5: 2 6 oz. lean mince/ground beef=50g protein, 1 cup mashed sweet potato, veggies
Meal 6: 2 4 oz. tilapia fillets=50g protein, 1/2 cup brown rice
Meal 7: 2 cans of albacore tuna fish very low sodium in H2O=60g protein, 1 cup oats
Meal 8: Bedtime shake 2 scoops casein=50g protein, 2 tbsp. natural PB
That gives me a total of 360g protein from food sources. The key to me getting my 400g protein minimum is I drink 50g whey protein shakes in between the meals giving me 410g total. This is my sweet spot. Now I vary in the amounts of servings at time but no less on the protein intake grams.
Love the diet....I follow something similar....I eat every two hours and keep the carbs complex and the proteins mostly from food....
I used to try to keep the protein at around 35mg per meal but new studies say we can digest up to 50mg + per sitting....
So 50mg a meal I will go up to
I don't give a shit how you change it the Cycle is all kinds of wrong for a 3rd cycle. You want to use tren are you serious??
Asking if you should lower the Deca shows you have no idea what your doing.....
Your ratios for everything is wrong all kinds of fucked.
I have no idea why im in this thread... Except to tell you go do research.
You will not get any support from me on this dumb ass shit--until you come in here with a solid cycle--all you are going to do with this cycle is fuck your body up....
So I brought it to the even 500 / 500....i get it....mistake
D-Bol for 6 - 8 weeks? What's wrong with that? Long acting esters etc.
Didn't want the Deca and Tren to compete so thought I would break them in to two and end the 16 week cycle with less bloat and fat given the fat burning qualities of tren etc.
Deca out...Equipoise to consider.....Hell no on Dbol for any longer than 4 weeks bc 1) liver toxicity bc It's methylated, 2) after 4 weeks the benefits stop no matter if u up the dose and the sides get extreme 3) Dbol has 8-9 hr half life so no long acting there.....can u see my man how we know u haven't researched these compounds?
I do like the idea of equipoise....I like that it increases appetite ect.
Was looking to do something stronger....i'd take Schering Primo over equipoise if I was going that route
Very similar in terms of slow muscle gain no?
Yes and very expensive "liquid gold" and u have to run it minimum of 16 weeks too....now on the Dbol only 4 weeks bc that's all u need to kickstart, by the time u are done with week 4 ur test will b kicking in...
DECA---helps the conversion of Test Into estro.9this is why people get sides when they add deca but don't when the add something else)
No let me ask you this.. If tren fights for the same receptors as test.. and test is not being used it will trun into estro and if you add deca to the mix don't you think there will be a fucking problem..
YOU HAVE DONE 3 Cycles and it shows------You need to understand compounds my friend. Before you just start throwing shit together.
I'm looking to compete in Raw Powerlifting at some point....might get surgery on my shoulder (Reason bench is a bit weak) (That's another story though)
Like Zewi said trash that cycle above and reconstruct another cycle WITHOUT Tren in it and come back after you carefully research bc you got know what u are putting in ur body and what it does and the dosages to use
U already know that no vet is going to sign off on Tren in a 3rd cycle and your test:deca ratio is all wrong along with several other things......now my question is how old are u???
1) Why is your deca dosage the same as your test dosage?
2) Why take hCG every 4 weeks?
3) What is your aromasin dosage?
4) Where is your clomid for PCT?
5) Why use dbol for 1 week only? (Remember these are long esters you are using)
Still NEEDS LOTS OF WORK
Read;
While using 19-nor-progesterone compounds, AI's use during the cycle is mandatory. AI's such as Aromasin or Arimidex should be used alongside Letrozole or Cabergoline.
Caber and letro would be used in addition to an AI (such as asin adex - caber and letro are also AI's but are much stronger variants). An AI controls the oestrogen production and caber is an anti-prolactin used for 19 norprogesterone compounds such as npp, tren or in this case deca
Deca is generally ran at a 2:1 ratio of test:deca respectively
The difference between test and tren (in short) is that they will fight for the same receptors. However, tren is significantly stronger and more successful at gaining those receptors when compared to test. As a result of the aforementioned fact, the result of running test and tren at equal to high dosages are basically redundant, since the result will be an increase in wastage of the test.
Moreover, tren is highly suppressive of male testosterone production if present in the system - even at low levels. Since normal male estrogen levels are provided through aromatisation of testosterone, natural test production is highly suppressed in a trenbolone cycle, whereas estrogen levels generally fall below normal. As a result, this typically is very problematic with mood swings, changes in libido and joint issues.
In contrast, the aforementioned test/tren rule does not follow suit when test/deca/npp is concerned - regardless of both being 19-norprogesterone compounds. Thus, the protocol recommended with deca is high test and low deca. Additonally, another reason to drop the deca completely (and why some eroids members tend to avoid deca) is the high aromatisation levels associated with deca. However, there is a benefit to deca when one is running an AI during the cycle, such as Aromasin or Arimidex, as this helps to block that process.
Additionally, Deca is preferred in some cases, even though it is very suppressive - thus at the ending phase of the cycle ones hormone levels may take a longer time to recover. Furthermore, as a result of the aforementioned statement, I would consider hCG with your cycle - as long as you have an AI at hand to help increase the recovery process and reduce the aromatisation activity of the hCG.
cdaddy7Nice work again Zewi on the tag team brainstorming!!! Thas wazzup!!!
cdaddy7Your PCT is wrong it needs to look like this:
Start PCT two weeks after last shot of test
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
There is a PCT that we created with Aromasin but thats not it that u posted
zewiOk brother after re-reading and watching your responses. I can tell you don't want to mess yourself up and really are asking for help with a good cycle. But a TEST,DECA TREN, Dbol is not they way to do this.
You don't need everything all at once. Need to understand the compounds, so you can put them together. You want mass look into EQ, TEST, and Dbol(as a kicker and only for 4 weeks) and how you can put them together for a cycle.
IMO
1-4 Dbol @ 50mg ED
1-18 Test E @ 500mg a week split
1-16 EQ @ 600mg a week split
Pct 15 days after last test E shot.
You need to have Clomid in your PCT!!!
Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
juice12345678Cdaddy and you have quite the tag team going haha....I do appreciate it....
Look....I bought the Tren A but I guess I'll hold off
The clomid will be added too....
I will keep the deca as it is something I'd like to try (Not too mention the fact that my shoulder hurts too) and I have also purchased it for a cycle
I'll keep the ratio correct at 500 / 250mg's
Any other thoughts?
would it be too crazy to add primo. to the cycle for the entire 16 weeks?
or just keep it easy at test. e / deca.
cdaddy7LISTEN, if u opt with deca u MUST have letro and caber on hand just in case bc if u don't that's usually when something like gyno shows up..... And no Aromasin can't replace them
zewiX2
If you want you can do deca..
here you go
1-4 Dbol @ 50mg ED
1-10 Deca @ 250mg a week or even 300mg if no sides
1-12 Test E @ 500mg a week
juice12345678Gotcha....
Thank you....
If no sides I'll bump the deca.
Learned a bunch from you'z two....
When do you suggest Tren. use....how many cycles in?
zewiI SAY TEN...
However, it still comes down to you.. Do research brother a lot of it before you decide to grab the devil's horns.
You don't need tren to hit your goals..
cdaddy7X2 and make sure u have researched and have all your gear on board before you start...IN THIS EXACT ORDER
Precycle grocery list
1) PCT
2) AI
3) Gear
juice12345678gotcha
cdaddy7AND a simple diet plan for mass/bulking that I use myself (205lbs):
You have to eat every few hours so you cannot start meal 1 at 9AM
Meal 1: 10 egg whites and 3 whole eggs=50g protein, 1.5 cup oats
Meal 2: 2 8 oz. chicken breast=50g protein, 1.5 cup mashed sweet potato
Preworkout : 2 scoop whey=approx 50g protein,1 cup oats
Post workout: 2 8 oz. chicken breast=50g protein, 1.5 cup brown rice
Meal 5: 2 6 oz. lean mince/ground beef=50g protein, 1 cup mashed sweet potato, veggies
Meal 6: 2 4 oz. tilapia fillets=50g protein, 1/2 cup brown rice
Meal 7: 2 cans of albacore tuna fish very low sodium in H2O=60g protein, 1 cup oats
Meal 8: Bedtime shake 2 scoops casein=50g protein, 2 tbsp. natural PB
That gives me a total of 360g protein from food sources. The key to me getting my 400g protein minimum is I drink 50g whey protein shakes in between the meals giving me 410g total. This is my sweet spot. Now I vary in the amounts of servings at time but no less on the protein intake grams.
juice12345678Great....
Love the diet....I follow something similar....I eat every two hours and keep the carbs complex and the proteins mostly from food....
I used to try to keep the protein at around 35mg per meal but new studies say we can digest up to 50mg + per sitting....
So 50mg a meal I will go up to
I appreciate the help....
Clomid will be included too
cdaddy7You have a complete cycle and diet plan
cdaddy7UNTIL you give us your age no more advice will be given by vets in here
juice12345678Hope that makes it easier to read....
Thoughts on bringing deca down to 250mg?
Thank you
zewiI don't give a shit how you change it the Cycle is all kinds of wrong for a 3rd cycle. You want to use tren are you serious??
Asking if you should lower the Deca shows you have no idea what your doing.....
Your ratios for everything is wrong all kinds of fucked.
I have no idea why im in this thread... Except to tell you go do research.
You will not get any support from me on this dumb ass shit--until you come in here with a solid cycle--all you are going to do with this cycle is fuck your body up....
juice12345678Reviewed Better?
juice12345678Okkkk....
Deca....2mg per pound of bodyweight right?
so deca at 410 mg? (ok so 400mg)
2 / 1 ratio right
so 800mg of test to 400mg of deca?
Bit much for my pocket and Body I think?
So I brought it to the even 500 / 500....i get it....mistake
D-Bol for 6 - 8 weeks? What's wrong with that? Long acting esters etc.
Didn't want the Deca and Tren to compete so thought I would break them in to two and end the 16 week cycle with less bloat and fat given the fat burning qualities of tren etc.
I'm up for whatever advice....
cdaddy7Deca out...Equipoise to consider.....Hell no on Dbol for any longer than 4 weeks bc 1) liver toxicity bc It's methylated, 2) after 4 weeks the benefits stop no matter if u up the dose and the sides get extreme 3) Dbol has 8-9 hr half life so no long acting there.....can u see my man how we know u haven't researched these compounds?
juice12345678I do like the idea of equipoise....I like that it increases appetite ect.
Was looking to do something stronger....i'd take Schering Primo over equipoise if I was going that route
Very similar in terms of slow muscle gain no?
cdaddy7Yes and very expensive "liquid gold" and u have to run it minimum of 16 weeks too....now on the Dbol only 4 weeks bc that's all u need to kickstart, by the time u are done with week 4 ur test will b kicking in...
juice12345678Gotcha
juice12345678I meant add d-bol to jumpstart the cycle....6 weeks instead of 4....didn't mean it was long acting
sorry wasn't clear
zewihere...
Tren--competes for the same receptors as Test--
TREN WILL ALWAYS WIN!!!
DECA---helps the conversion of Test Into estro.9this is why people get sides when they add deca but don't when the add something else)
No let me ask you this.. If tren fights for the same receptors as test.. and test is not being used it will trun into estro and if you add deca to the mix don't you think there will be a fucking problem..
YOU HAVE DONE 3 Cycles and it shows------You need to understand compounds my friend. Before you just start throwing shit together.
Everytime I say this about trens binding affinity, nobody listens. They still want to run huge amounts of test with it! Smh
juice12345678ok so I've made a bunch of edits....
I appreciate the advice....thank you
what are your thoughts here?
forget the tren at this point....what about the test and deca ratio? I'm following the "Rules" here....dropping deca two weeks before test is over
starting pct two weeks after last test pin etc.
I was looking to push the envelope a bit so I get it was wrong....
but all is well here?
juice12345678I made an edit....
Mass / Stregth
Thoughts?
cdaddy7Better....consider EQ instead of deca
juice12345678Age 31
cdaddy7Thank you sir, what are ur goals? Zewi will cycle u and I'm going to diet u
juice12345678I'm up for it....
Bulk and Strength....
I'm looking to compete in Raw Powerlifting at some point....might get surgery on my shoulder (Reason bench is a bit weak) (That's another story though)
B/P is 120's / 70's
Rest HR 70's
VG Health
cdaddy7Like Zewi said trash that cycle above and reconstruct another cycle WITHOUT Tren in it and come back after you carefully research bc you got know what u are putting in ur body and what it does and the dosages to use
juice12345678Made an edit
You've been a member for 47mins - have you read the stickies our vets have created for you?
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/better-basics-for-the-n...
juice12345678Yup....new to the site....
Friends told me people were knowledgeable here
We have regulars/vets/gurus/experts here who are all willing to offer advice.
But they will only help you, if you want to help yourself - take a look at the link for some background reading...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/better-basics-for-the-n...
If you run deca and tren I would HIGHLY recommend some cabergoline at 0.5mg 2x per week or eod.
Pramipexole works too
cdaddy7Don't encourage that bro It's his 3rd cycle
cdaddy7U already know that no vet is going to sign off on Tren in a 3rd cycle and your test:deca ratio is all wrong along with several other things......now my question is how old are u???
juice1234567831 Y/O
zewiWHO CAME UP WITH THIS CRAP????
Re-write it up encase im not seeing it right like this
example....
1-16 Deca @ 500mg
1-16 Test E @ 500mg
etc
juice12345678Easier to read?
I can go deca 250mg
A few issues with this layout:
1) Why is your deca dosage the same as your test dosage?
2) Why take hCG every 4 weeks?
3) What is your aromasin dosage?
4) Where is your clomid for PCT?
5) Why use dbol for 1 week only? (Remember these are long esters you are using)
Still NEEDS LOTS OF WORK
Read;
While using 19-nor-progesterone compounds, AI's use during the cycle is mandatory. AI's such as Aromasin or Arimidex should be used alongside Letrozole or Cabergoline.
Caber and letro would be used in addition to an AI (such as asin adex - caber and letro are also AI's but are much stronger variants). An AI controls the oestrogen production and caber is an anti-prolactin used for 19 norprogesterone compounds such as npp, tren or in this case deca
Deca is generally ran at a 2:1 ratio of test:deca respectively
The difference between test and tren (in short) is that they will fight for the same receptors. However, tren is significantly stronger and more successful at gaining those receptors when compared to test. As a result of the aforementioned fact, the result of running test and tren at equal to high dosages are basically redundant, since the result will be an increase in wastage of the test.
Moreover, tren is highly suppressive of male testosterone production if present in the system - even at low levels. Since normal male estrogen levels are provided through aromatisation of testosterone, natural test production is highly suppressed in a trenbolone cycle, whereas estrogen levels generally fall below normal. As a result, this typically is very problematic with mood swings, changes in libido and joint issues.
In contrast, the aforementioned test/tren rule does not follow suit when test/deca/npp is concerned - regardless of both being 19-norprogesterone compounds. Thus, the protocol recommended with deca is high test and low deca. Additonally, another reason to drop the deca completely (and why some eroids members tend to avoid deca) is the high aromatisation levels associated with deca. However, there is a benefit to deca when one is running an AI during the cycle, such as Aromasin or Arimidex, as this helps to block that process.
Additionally, Deca is preferred in some cases, even though it is very suppressive - thus at the ending phase of the cycle ones hormone levels may take a longer time to recover. Furthermore, as a result of the aforementioned statement, I would consider hCG with your cycle - as long as you have an AI at hand to help increase the recovery process and reduce the aromatisation activity of the hCG.