Ok first let me say, Mods I have put this in the general for one reason as opposed to putting it in pct. The pct section is primarily going to be for newbs and I consider this next level debate for the advanced that might eventually impact the newbs if protocols evolve or change as it pertains to pct.
I was about to give a pct protocol in the cycle section when I noticed a new member who has some pretty good general information had once again posted 10 consecutive days use of hcg in the post cycle, of which I don't agree. So rather than reply given it is becoming a habit I thought a good debate here would be better. First let me say, yes, I disagree with post cycle use of hcg and I will lay out those reasons for debate but I'm not trying to say zewi is wrong and I'm right. I am an evolution type person and will follow the science and in fact try new things almost every cycle. So having said so, zewi belives in his pct and may have had great luck with it and I may have had great luck with mine before I went trt but that never means we could not have had better luck if we had discussed ours together. Good science usually incorporates good ideas and slowly morphs to better idea's.
So here's the problem and I would like everyones thoughts on this, hcg will slow the production of LH from the pituitary. Now let's talk about why that is important or even debate if its true. First of all what occurs when you begin popping those test shots? Without going into an Anthony Roberts science class, there is simply a negative feedback loop that occurs and tells the test side of the axis, "we don't need you right now". This of course means the message got to the pituitary and there was a change in hormone at the LH and FSH level. Alright, skip tp to last pin in a cycle, the gear is gone and we need to get the message to the brain that test production from the free train is over, time to get that ass back to work. So now we hit the all important "dead zone" right? No test coming in the body via the pin and the natty is offline and went in such a deep sleep even with the positive feedback loop coming into play, its tired, its pissed, it simply does not want to get out of bed!!! Lazy bastard!
So what to do? Well first up we recognize the biggest problem. Again, without going to deep in the mind numbing science the root cause is the pituitary is not generating the LH and FSH response needd to prompt the gonads back to service. There's a complicted step before that but it serves no purpose to the discussion here so let's get to it. We have to get the pituitary to function here and do its job. Now many think as I believe zewi does, and may be right btw, pump those balls up and it all happens. Well not so fast for me, yes there is benefit from hcg to the nuts but nothing to prove it has any impact on the axis and natty reboot. In fact, hcg will increase estrogen and at the same time hinder LH and LH and FSH have to come back into play for the positive feedback loop to even begin to prompt natty. So you ask, "well then why use hcg at all"? That's a good question and yes, there are plenty of good reasons to use hcg. The sex drive, the health of testes in atrophy and many more. So I think nolva is your best friend in the post given it plays many rolls which include helping the estro block , sending message to the pituitary estro is not wanted and sending message to the pituitary to bring LH and FSH back online. Clomid is not a bad idea either given the double whammy but not nearly as effective at those things as nolva, and in fact maybe no effect at all in terms of pituitary stimulation that nolva has been proven to have. Another fact is that aromasin might play nice roll in the post but that's another time.
So here's the debate I have with zewi. My thoughts are this, use the hcg either whole run or in the final two weeks to keep or bring back the nuts. Incorporate an AI (aromasin always for me) to prevent the known spike effect hcg has on estro/shbg and then drop it opting for one of the known effective pct plans ALWAYS incorporating nolva as it will actually be the ultimate magic tool in stimulation at so many levels, again, I understand the debate around LH as it pertains to hcg but I simply do not understand why would want to bring LH online and at the same time incorporate a drug know to prevent that to some degree right at the time we prepare to crash. Now let me say this, if we were to run the 10 day protocol following a long ester test it would be a debate I'm much more inclined to lean towards but following a short ester test I just don't see it. Bring the debate and bring any other ideas you have be it aromasin in the post etc, just have some scientific discussion with your opinion so we can try to follow it.