Cycle vs BF%
Just looking to get some of you well informed guys in here to break this down in a very informative manner for those guys like me who just don't understand.
I've been reading through the forums a while now, for the most part I don't have much to say - I'm just not that knowledgeable on the topic of AAS, nor do I have any personal experience beyond years and years and years of various topical and systemic steroids for medical reasons.
So often I see guys being told simply to put down the needle, and work on their body fat first. I've seen people ask in response to this advice, "Well, what should my number be?" and it seems that 10 to 12% is the magic number given.
This for some reason just doesn't seem to make sense to me. In my job, I've seen many many guys use steroids. From just popping Anavar, to taking the most ridiculous cycles without any PCT whatsoever. I've seen big guys get on, I've seen skinny guys get on.
The serious guys, fat or skinny, always made progress.
I understand, at the most basic level only, that by getting on AAS at a lower BF% reduces risks of heart disease and other estrogen sides. But it seems to me that in any proper cycle the individual would be managing estrogen in any case. And increased water retention, and estro sides can be managed by other medications. Is this ideal? No, decidedly not - are there other risks involved with managing those sides? certainly.
And yet, at the end of the day we are after all discussing injecting an exogenous source of hormones into the body without medical supervision anyways. There are going to be risks. And while I understand that we want to minimize the risks, I just don't get how there is such a hate on for guys who are around 20% BF suggesting they want to start using. Look at almost any power-lifter out there, and the vast majority aren't the pretty looking 6% or better, and yet lots of them have used successfully for longer then I've been alive.
Just for a quick reference: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/
This site has a sort of BF image collage. 10 - 12% looks pretty damn good to me, not a whole lot of reason at that point to get on the gear unless you are planning on competing, or... planning on competing. That's just it though, the vast majority of AAS users aren't competing.
Perhaps its worth considering and writing down some ideas on how best to support a new bro who is hell bent on getting on gear and ain't about to wait until they're 12% bf.
In any case, thanks for taking the time to read this guys, I appreciate any thoughts and opinions that weigh-in on this topic.
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well the main concerns are gonna be what you said in your post about estrogen, high blood pressure and other health related issues. there is also the fact that when you got fat covering your muscles when you put on some size it just looks bulky and you dont SEE the benifits of steroids, so compounds such as winstrol, mast, primo, var, just aint gonna show vascularity, hardness or the full look, no veins gonna be seen through high BF%. So in those terms i tell people they are wasting their money. I think that it is easy for a guy to have high BF% and do a cycle and loose some of it but diet is shit and so as soon as cycle is over it just comes back. If you learn how to cut without steroids it makes it ten times easy when you do use, and it makes it easier to maintain.
SpyVThanks Roid Noid. I could not agree more when it comes to the basics -> that being knowing how to eat properly, whether to cut or maintain. This is merely my personal opinion on it, but I simply ascribe to the theory of eating less (calories) then your TDEE (Getting Macro's and Micro's bang on as well). What are your thoughts on those guys looking to go the power lifter route, IE: No aesthetic interest? Any ideas on managing those big concerns like Higher Estrogen, high blood pressure, any other sides you guys can think of?
Outside of watching #'s on labs, I cannot think of anything special for someone in the higher BF % to do to manage the risks.
sgtstedankoI'll be honest. I just skimmed this. So, if I missed something. Sorry... Imho. I would say 15% bf, to begin any real cycling. To get to below 15%, I'd think by then, you know what you're doing. As far as workout intensity, nutrition. What works for you, doesn't work, etc, etc, etc. Lot's of times, I say wait, cause the dude doesn't have the experience in or out of the gym/kitchen.
SpyVThanks man, was hoping you'd weigh in on the topic since everyone knows your the go-to for diet!
Hopefully later when you get a chance to read that book through and through you can add some more thoughts. But what you just said seems to me to be exactly what I thought was the reasons for most guys suggesting to cut BF. and it makes sense.