posted Fri, 06/26/2015 - 10:24
5207
+ 4 MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results
ad
Please see attached for copies of the MS and HPLC on the Western Biotech. These are 10 iu vial not 20 iu vials.
Sorry for the word SAMPLE across the pages. Used a converter because eroids will not let you load PDF's.
mands
Ordered from:
- Bookmark
- 4
- 0
bigwillyThe guys using this growth are impressed, I'm told it's no different then what phfizer puts out at 1/3 the cost.
bigwillyI just burnt up what was left of my brain cells reading this. Back to the short bus for me.
LMAO!!!
Ya Know......with all this 'Hi Tech' testing.....at the end of the day.....BigWilly's "Mirror Test" might be the most accurate test of them all. True Story. :))
bigwillyI'm just fucking old bro, 42 is right across the street. If it's even have real my old broke down body responds on 3 weeks, lol. I have noticed over the years though that the very best method for knowing if ya have real growth is facial skin, it will get fuller and cows feet sort of clear up dramatically. All the other shit is hit or miss, better sleep hunger staying lean improved train of thought better muscle tone thick finger nails fluid retention are all hit or miss but the skin never lies, it's the one true hands down sure fire way I know I'm on quality growth.
Brother you remember 2006/7 there wer no testing, ya bought it ran it and found out 8 weeks latter what ya had, lol.y remember we could get quality jins like picking apples hahahahahahahaha.
There seems to be lots of apples lately
dontgivemeadviceSo what the hell is the conclusion on this ? I mean these have been getting good test reviews except the last few bloods that posted igf results have been extremely low using the 10iu pre test spike method.
I'd like to know too. Here's some other info:
SIMEC.ch (from a test by them)
Aliquots of 10ul/ug 40ul/ug 25ul/ug were used in the Soma test.
Omnitrope Sandoz:
GH is a fragile protein...not sure how the test adjusts for concentration, or if it has to adjust at all
3.72mg/mL (52,121,286) standard/reference
1.36mg/mL (19,022,564) calculated sample concentration (Soma)
Rustyhookerthey scam ppl selling 10IU vial with just 4 IU of real HGH in it.
Ugh....good quote and being political correct...lol
AnonThese threads always get interesting...I love it
P2i2t(this was just looked over and explained very clearly to me by my girl's brother who is working on his masters in biochemical engineering, and who has a very good understanding of how to make sense of what all of this information on these pages is telling us)
this is all I am going to say because I'm not going to sit here and argue with anybody. Its not my fight to fight so I would ultimately be wasting my own personal time arguing the point. But my one comment about this is quite simply they are not going to refer to the total weight and contents of the tested vial as a mg/ml ratio. that ratio will only be used when talking about a certain concentration. In this case the concentration of the liquid that they used in order to figure out the amount of milligrams per vial.basically they use a concentration that came out to be 1.36mg/ml ratio after testing, along with an algorithm to figure out the amount of milligrams in each vial. The final answer is going to be measured simply in milligrams. NOT mg/ml. because we are testing a solid substance and milliliter is only a standard of measurement used when measuring liquids.in this case it was the liquid concentration they used to figure out the amount of actual milligrams per vial. Once all of the math was done using the 1.36mg/ml ratio, and it was ultimately converted to weight/volume measurment of the solid in the vials, the math comes out more in favor of Karl with this one.
I want to reiterate this is basically parroting how it was explained to me and I am NOT 100% sure myself whether it is correct or not. this is why I will not sit here arguing with anybody about this. Just wanted to put the information out there like it was told to me. You guys can debate yourselves about it if you'd like. This is not my field of expertise personally. What I am going to do is actually text him and have him text me his explanation so I can physically copy and paste it just in case I explained it wrong in any type of way. just a matter of getting ahold of him and having him find the time to reply thoroughly.
(PhD in StreetPharmacy......so this is just my understanding)
Concentration of Sample AS1743-1 - 1.36mg/mL
I am curious about the GH Standard/Reference used (3.72mg/mL) (3.33mg)
I've only seen that mg amount on the old 100iu Jintropin Chinese Kits
According to the test/tester:
The quantity is in question, not the quality
But, according to the GH Serums, the quantity should have been on point.
P2i2tThe GH serum standard is definitely a weird number in my opinion as well. That would be, with the way we understand it anyways, a little over 11iu right? Why wouldn't they use the 3.33? I really wish I personally understood these tests better. I Understand the basics of them but obviously not all the intricates. But I have sent a message to my brother in law and hoping to hear back from him soon so I have a copy and paste to Post of his own words just in case i, which I fear I might have, messed up the explanation he gave. I tried repeating it from memory as possible but we are only human right? I will also ask him if he knows anything about why they would use a 10% over concentrated standard.
(So I've read)
The precise conversion (1mg = 2.7IUs)
3.72mgs * 2.7ius = 10ius (approx)
I'm assuming the GH Standard is/was specifically for this test (Sigma-Aldrich, etc)
I don't know enough about how the testing is done, but I'd like to learn more
Couple of other "Generics" I'd like to see tested. It seems using Blood Work to test a product Vs testing the actual product (Day n Night)
P2i2tWell assuming the actual verdict here is correct and they actually are underdosed ( which I would love to see results of another HPLC test done to either back up or disregard this test) then yes, it is another pillar in what you have been trying to prove all along when it comes to serum testing in blood work.
https://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/21800/image_79.jpg
10iu labeled vial (tested 1.06mg) These tested ok with Serum and IGF1 (using the inject an entire vial "spiking the serum" protocol)
Beings that this Soma test is showing a legit GH Protein....I don't think it is "underdosed" but probably accurately dosed. 4iu, 8iu,10iu, etc. (normal packaged doses)
If this test is accurate, Karl should embrace this test as it is showing an authentic product that may have just had a "mislabeling mg/IU" issue.
they don't sell 4IU vial.
they scam ppl selling 10IU vial with just 4 IU of real HGH in it.
Real hgh ok, but still damn underdosed! for that price I can go pharma grade, If i have to multiply the doses for 2,5 to get what I want.
I'm trying to be "politically correct".
:))
So it's still not explained if the IU were correct or not.
Because it's useless to have 99% pure HGH if the vial is advertised as 10IU but it's in reality 4.
Anyone care to shed some light?
If you follow the calculation below on my former post (here it is again 3.72 mg/ml (GH standard) / 52,121,286 (peak area)} x 19,022,564 = 1.36 mg/ml.) - you'll see that there are about 3.7mg in the vials which are about 11iu, and indeed we overdose products in 10%
you are full of bullshit karl, and you sell an underdosed product. there is no more then 4IU of HGH in your vial.
The following are reasons an entire 1 ml vial CAN NOT or NEED NOT be tested
-All HPL analyses required multiple runs to improve accuracy
- Large volume injections can exceed the HPLCs pressure or volume tolerances
- Either can cause a grid blow out, a situation in which the pressure alone FORCES the sample thru the grid and down the DRAIN
- Micro liter sampling has become the norm since the adaptation of High Pressure (Low Volume) Liquid Chromatography systems. The primary reason HPLCs are used is the minute sample requirements.
- Finally providing the sample constituents are in equilibrium with the solvent being utilized the results, which are based on WELL ESTABLISHED DILUTION FACTORS, will be VERY ACCURATE with a margin of error approximating 0.05 mg/ml, as was listed in this instance!
1.36 mg/ml that's the quantity of HGH in your vial, it's should be around 3.72mg/ml
0.33 mg = 1IU
1.36mg/0.33 = 4,12IU
so you sell 10IU vial with 4.12IU of hgh in it, and you fucking tried to says: we overdose the product! give me a break and fuck off.
First my team didn't conduct this test, I just offered an interpretation,
Now you're making a fool out of yourself, and the only reason I'm the only one to call you out is that the members here doesn't understand in analytical chemistry ....
A rHGH standard with a known amount of protein was used for the calculation. In both cases, AS1743-1 and the protein standard solution, aliquots of 10 µl were added to 40 µl ultrapure water. An aliquot of 25 µl was injected.
{3.72 mg/ml (GH standard) / 52,121,286 (peak area)} x 19,022,564 = 1.36 mg/ml - the total content of HGH powder is 3.72mg = 11iu
You are twisting your words so ppl read that it's 11IU but it's not.
Did you read the report?
IT SAYS: the observer concentration of the sample solution: 1,36mg/ml
it should be 3,72mg/ml SAME AS THE STANDARD GH!
You are again full of bullshit and trying to call me a liar or dumb is not working. this test PROVE that your HGH is pure but damn UNDERDOSED.
Better buy pharma gh if I have to pay: 2x to get the same dosage.
no there are: 1.36 mg/ml
unless I don't understand it (probably this is the case).
explain it better please or in a simpler way
EDIT: After further research I have understood that I was right and karl a liar.
Check below ... I asked the head professor from my team for a brief explanation to this specific test, including the specified calculation on the numbers. Hereinafter is his reply -
==================================================
See attached the text. It’s based on the original text in your HPLC report + my modifications. I hope it’s what you are looking for.
==================================================Below is the content of the attached file he sent me with the info -
This report summarizes the analysis of human growth hormone sample obtained from (SOMAS) batch no : AS1753-1 and was compared to innovator product Norditropin from Novo Nordisk as per the methods mentioned in British Pharmacopeia (BP). The biosimilarity assessment includes HPLC.
Analytical HPLC of the protein sample was performed using a reversed-phase C18 column and absorbance monitoring at 210 nm and 280 nm. After the weight of the sample was determined using an analytical micro balance, it was mixed with one ml of the required HPLC testing solution
Please note: Proteins and peptides absorb UV light in the range from 200 to 300 nm but have absorbance maxima at 210 and 280 nm. The absorbance at 210 nm is much higher than at 280 nm. However, the absorbance maximum at 280 is specific for proteins. The integration of the chromatogram trace covers the range of the chromatogram in which proteins and peptides elute from the column.
OBJECTIVE
This report describes the analysis of human growth hormone sample obtained
from (SOMAS) batch no: AS1753-1 as per the methods described in British
Pharmacopeia.
SCOPE
This report applies to the analysis of human growth hormone sample obtained from (SOMAS) batch no : AS1753-1 as per the methods in British Pharmacopeia in order to display its biosimilarity to the innovator product Norditropin.
TESTS: HPLC
Weight of the solid powder: 24.2 ± 0.25 mg present in the vial.
The observed concentration of the sample solution = 1.36 mg/ml ± 0.05 mg/ml.
Calculations:
A rHGH standard with a known amount of protein was used for the calculation. In both cases, AS1743-1 and the protein standard solution, aliquots of 10 µl were added to 40 µl ultrapure water. An aliquot of 25 µl was injected.
{3.72 mg/ml (GH standard) / 52,121,286 (peak area)} x 19,022,564 = 1.36 mg/ml.
So is this saying these are 99% pure?
This batch is 99% pure. I believe the first 20 iu batch I tested last year was 98% pure.
mands
If anyone has a better converter I can send PDF's to them and have them re-post as .jpg's
mands
Mands can you explain the slight difference in MW? I never get much response on that subject.
This sample seems close, just not 3.33mgs (10ius) 1.36mg/mL (apprx 4IUs)
GH Serums seemed to be "on point"
TY
I'll try and explain a couple questions here. There is a MW range that pharmacy grade GH may fall within.
With that said things that can alter that weight is missing proteins, incorrect folds in sequence, wrong sequence, etc. These can all cause issues. Some harmful and some not. For example red welts at injection site, more water retention possibly. Also incorrect fold can cause health issues.
Really what we need is more biological assays so we can determine of these generic are raising IGF-1 levels. Even 191aa gh that's short a protein can cause a spike in gh levels but hardly raise IGF-1 levels.
I'm on my phone and when I get back Monday I will get on my desk top and go into it a little deeper if needed.
mands
(This isn't about Karl's sample as it seems to test very close to the GH Standard/Reference)
There were two popular UGL GH products that tested:
2 Peaks: (22,411,4 Da - 22,145,2 Da)
Elevated both GH Serum and IGF-1
Wondering if this would be more prone to Immunogenicity, (Non)- Neutralizing Antibody, Tolerance, etc. Doesn't seem to fall within Pharma Range.
I've seen a few test results showing 176AA (20,270 Da)
I wonder how that would test with Serum/IGF1
FR sent
I'm intrigued myself, may u send me a sample ? as there certainly should be 2 peaks !!!!
Sent u a Pm
The sample is tested after dissolved in water, so the number u refer to (1.36mg/mL) represent concentration per ml as you see, not total mg's in the sample. if you follow the calculation you'll see the total mg's of protein is more then 3.33mg (10iu)
I'll get in a couple of hours a brief from my professor including the full calculation on this specific test, no worries
Thanks Karl
I'm always wanting to learn more about the testing
3.72 mg/mL (GH Standard/Reference used)
1.36 mg/mL (observed concentration of sample)(calculated)
I did post a few HGH samples (HPLC) from SIMEC
It depends on the concentration of the solution, if u dissolve 10iu for instance in 3ml ... or 1 ml, I'll post in one min' the whole explanation and specified calculation from my professor on this specific test
Look on top in one minute