posted Mon, 03/11/2024 - 18:49
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+ 2 Lab work on prescribed trt 200mg cyp per week
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This is my lab work on trt prescribed testosterone cyp. I take 200mg a week and to me this just seems high or is this level normal? I pin on Mondays and I had my labs drawn on a Friday so I didn't have blood work right after. I have taken test at 500mg per week running Balkan gear and my levels were about the same as this so I am wondering if many the prescription test is pure and that's why my test levels are higher than they were running other gear like Balkan. Basically my question does this level over 2,000 look normal for 200mg a week of test cyp?
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After reading through a little more I decided not to post. walgreens prescription test from a clinic is all I needed to see.
200mg of pharm prescribed test puts me around 2,000 total on my trough. But I pin daily instead of once a week. Another thing that needs to be considered is pharm test is usually GSO/CSO in my experience. And UGLs use some form MCT oil. The clearance time/absorption rate of carrier oils varies drastically and is the rate-limiting step in systemic circulation of whatever hormone it is carrying. Longer clearance time oils will have more of a “build up” in your body dose after dose than an oil that absorbs quickly and dumps all the hormone at once. Less build up in this scenario. MCT is absorbed much more quickly.
So the carrier oil difference can be the cause of seeing different blood levels between pharm and ugl at the same dose. Not necessarily that the ugl is bunk or underdosed.
Edited because its just silly of me
What you mentioned about carrier oils is correct. Now this was debated awhile back on this forum but what I mentioned was a carrier oil such as castor or grapeseed will indeed absorb slower than mct oil and in the process the half life of the hormone will be affected. To prove that thought right, a veteran member named serrajujitsu provided his blood tests comparing pharmaceutical Test U to UGL Test U in mct oil. There was a difference of days...bloods don't lie. Lol but some folks were still doubting.
Good to know thanks for the detailed info
Theres no such thing as oil clearance rate in terms of when or how cyp/enth works. Esters control that. Oil is just a carrier and in ugl ive seen everything used including corn oil.
Your broscience here is shocking and utterly incorrect
We’re not talking about half life time for cleaving esters. We’re talking how long the body takes to absorb the hormone from the oil, so that the ester cleaving can occur. Your lack of general science knowledge is shocking and utterly incorrect to speak on which you don’t even know.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782087/
^ bro science
'Employment of different oil vehicles may affect absorption rates to a minor extent following i.m. and s.c. injection. Several in vivo studies have been conducted (18–20,25–28;'
May affect absorption to a minor extent. Posted as one time injection between thin and thick oil. On cycle we can erase that 'minor affect' by pinning biweekly.
More interesting is noted thruout that report is the other variables with greater or equal affects. IM injection by location can speed or slow the absorption. As can IM vs Subq.
The fun part is taking all those variables and still understanding the esters cleave times and avoiding on cycle spikes and dips. Timing the injection on cycle so you are not in a constant state of flux which heightens sides and makes ai use difficult.
Good debate. Thank you.
Medically cited and even more of chasing a wormhole
https://www.eroids.com/forums/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/test-is-not-...
@Jockstrap @SeeOhShow not taking sides but a carrier oil will affect the absorption rate and half life of the hormone without a doubt. Slight affect only. My good friend Serra provided bloods to prove this thought. Now he did use Pharmaceutical Test U vs UGL Test U. EDIT: both oils were accurately dosed. But yeah this subject has been debated alot. In my opinion carrier oils do play a big part, that's why I prefer grapeseed oil so much over mct. But jockstrap I can see why you would say or think that.. I was on the fence myself for a long time. All of it works together as a complete unit.
In regards to what he said…. “Sometimes it’s better to be considered a fool than to open your mouth and erase all doubt”~Kenny Florian
anvilSeeOhShow is 100% correct on this. Evidence based. Not that he needs my approval but I understand it the same way as him.
Sounds silly but carrier oils do play a part and that's no bro science
It’s a matter of residence time. Gotta get through the residence time, so that the ester can be cleaved off and utilized in the body. The hormone will always have the same half life when it comes to the actual hormone. But residence time (affected by carrier oil among other things) and ester half-life combine to what we should refer to as “effective half-life.” But that is simply getting too far into the weeds to put into practice
anvilIn detection tests castor oil has longer times with all esters, this all came about for Wada testing. Longer than another oil. Good luck pinning that though, 18 gauge needed. No thanks...
Those bloods Serra showed were interesting though. If I remember right there was a slight difference in peak and trough between both forms of Test U. Mct vs Castor
Goddamn. You don’t even need a drug test, they would see the plugs of meat missing from your body lol.
anvilLol right
Correct, effective half life... that's what I meant when I said it all works together. One part essentially affects the other. But hey some folks disagree
My understanding is exactly the same
Are you going to a trt clinic? That's a very high test level for trt. You're a high responder. What brand test are you using?
Yes I am and I don't know the brand it comes from Walgreens pharmacy
It seems the clinics put everyone on 200mg a week. That's too much for you. At least you're getting your test from a pharmacy. Some of those clinics make you use some bioidentical crap that they mail to you.
What was the estrogen levels?
46 i feel good in that range. My sweet spot is probably mid 30s
I thought so as test numbers usually do show high when estro is up above range from experiance.
So your saying my test levels could be false high because my estrogen levels are slightly elevated?
Nah im saying usually higher estro leads to higher testosterone levels on bloods from what iv seen and experianced.
Say if you was to lower your estro to around 20 your test number would most likely come down also.
There's no telling what you're going to get from UGL, honestly. Some people revere certain sources and brands as the bees knees, but I have personally experienced hit or miss scenarios from even reliable sources in terms of quality. One time it might be dosed right, another it might be underdosed. You will almost always get more accurate dosing from pharmaceutical grade testosterone; hence, the higher levels of testosterone seen on your panel.
Need to adjust that testosterone down. Your cholesterol etc is suffering from that level. Look into oatmeal, niacin etc to get yourself leveled out.
Edit: per dr scalley 200mg should be 2000, yes
Yea I didn't think it would be that high at 200mg per week. I ran anavar last summer and it fd my lipids up. I don't mess with any of that extra gear anymore I just run the dose im prescribed now. What else besides oatmeal could I take to help my cholesterol? I also eat a very high red meat diet. I eat a lot of venison and steak.
Scientific studies have shown that the true indicator of heart health is HDL/triglycerides ratio. You want trigs to not be more than 2x your HDL. You could lower the LDL some with some typical supplements. Nattokinase, citrus bergamot extract, or even some high quality fish oil caps daily have been shown to lower LDL some. Nattokinase has been shown in studies to significantly decrease trigs and LDL and even increase HDL some. Doses up to 10,000FU per day. Don’t ask me what the unit FU means because fuck if I know lol
So do my ratios look pretty good? I know my hdl is higher than normal which helped my total cholesterol ratio. I eat a lot of red meat like venison sausage and ground venison every morning. I also eat a lot of steak.
HDL: 44
Trig: 69
Yup you’re definitely in a good ratio there. Your triglycerides number is excellent. Try some of those supplements I mentioned above, and it’ll likely lower your LDL…if you’re very concerned. But it’s not like it’s sky high anyways. I’ve also found drinking Metamucil daily (I do the sugar free kind) has also helped lower my triglycerides and LDL. I do the Nattokinase, citrus bergamot, and Metamucil. My trigs sit around 70 and LDL sits around 60. Could drop the trigs more if I’d lay of the carbs…but they’re so delicious lol
And before I falsely get called out for “bro-science” again here you go
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10001260/
“The current literature contains a plethora of trials and studies establishing the TG/HDL-C ratio as an excellent novel risk marker, suitable for predicting the risk for MetS, CAD, PAD, and CCVD”
And it shows. You really need to get a few things there under control. Your H/H is through the roof, so time to donate blood, soon. Also, yeah your cholesterol is terrible.
And, do you have Gilbert syndrome ? Your bilirubin is very high, but I also don’t see any other reason with those simple labs. If not, should get further work up on your liver.
Sorry to be straight up, but I’m 50 and labs don’t lie. Better be safe than continue on causing more damage bro.
Yes I was diagnosed with Gilbert 15 years ago but testosterone increases RBC which break down to bilirubin. I just gave blood yesterday and then I will go back in 60 days and do whole red blood cells which will help that drastically. I've been on trt for a few years and never was told to give blood until last month. I'm sure once I stay on top of the h&h my bilirubin will improve.
Good deal bro, so you’re on top of it and know. It’s an uncommon condition and I have it as well, but can easily be misread into bunch of other shit. Work on low fat diet too of course. And yeah just get that blood donated and should be good. +1
Oh and how’s BP through all of it ? Very important.
I don't really have any major symptoms except my urine will get yellow and thick sometimes when my body is trying to rid the bilirubin. My eyes aren't as white so you can see I have access bilirubin. I have this diagnosis for 15 years now and yesterday was my first time giving blood. They weren't able to take enough off because my blood was too thick so they told me to come back in 60 days and they can do the whole RBC which will lower my h&h a lot more than just giving a pint of blood. My blood pressure was 143/74 yesterday before giving blood. It does get high sometimes and I can tell now when it's time to give blood. I get pressure in my head and behind my eyes and my chest feels slightly heavier to breath. Yesterday when they took off blood I felt instantly like they took off a few lbs off my chest. I was a RN in my past life so I understand a lot of the Lab work. My ast and alt was fine so that's good.
Do you have any symptoms or any disabilities from Gilbert syndrome?
Ah ok. So basically it’s now caught up with you a bit. Still treatable.
I’ve been fortunate with it sort of. No real symptoms but I had my gall bladder removed over 20 years ago. So with that, I dramatically improved my diet ever since. Just hard keeping on weight, but that’s more metabolism for me. My BP has always been great and I have resting HR in 40’s when not on cycle. So basically living healthy has kept it all good. It was an easy catch for the DR when I had no other problems or issues.
So what kind of Bilirubin levels do you see on that then? Does it coincide with Albumin?
With Gilbert’s it’s the sole elevated Bilirubin level, well above lab “norm”, doesn’t cause skin jaundiced, and all other Liver enzymes will be completely normal. Albumin, etc will all be good. Which is unusual to happen, outside of illness, medications, or some other factor that will affect the other values. So you really have to have a clear clean lab picture to see it, not affected by other shit.
Edit. Think I have some pre labs in my pics show similar liver lab values.
You cleared up now and living pain free Mac???
Pretty much cleared up, skin wise. Pain free, but still some lingering numbness around stomach I’m told can hang around. Back on TRT, plan for next go in few months, need to reset and all.
Pics coming I promise. Thanks for checking up. Appreciate it.
And of course, got new goats to care for.
What happened? Was it something caused from Gilberts?
Nah. Unrelated. I’m 50 and had my first real deal Shingles outbreak. Fuckin sucked. You can check my pics, have a little post on it.
That speaks to the efficacy of pharmaceutical grade. He was running 500mg of a different brand and did not see higher levels of testosterone.
Everyone should get at least 1 pharmacy cycle with blood test to compare. Thats the only way you can tell.
They absolutely should!
This is the first time I have had my blood work done on prescription test so I was a little thrown off. I've only used Balkan pharmacy in the past for underground labs and I can now see that it had to be under dosed.
It's night and day difference, yeah? I always think about bodybuilders from the Golden Era when comparing UGL to pharmacy-grade AAS. Most of them used more exogenous hormones than they are willing to admit, yet the dosages used back then were nominal when compared to those used by many nowadays - and they were Greek gods carved out of marble! That is because everything they used was pharmaceutical. It is more expensive, but you know what you are paying for and have greater certainty of the results you expect to see.
Wtf 2300 test level?! Hook me up