+ 17 Kits4Less Round 2
Just got round 2 of igf bloodwork running Kits4Less Supreme A. 6IU/day. Based on variance I’ve seen between vials, this is roughly what I was expecting. My liver enzymes were about 20 points less than my previous test where I got 223 igf. They still aren’t back to my normal baseline though, so I bet if I waited 2 more weeks and tested my igf again it would be higher. So yes, elevated liver enzymes (at least in my case) had a drastic impact on my igf score.
3/15/24: AST/ALT ~ 80 each when I scored 223
4/1/24: AST/ALT ~ 65 each on this test where I scored 417
My baseline AST/ALT is ~30 each.
I included the date on this screenshot of bloodwork so y’all know it was from this recent pull. Oh and labcorp turned around results so much faster than quest.
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Lol I'm sure you're not the only one that applies to my man. It definitely applies to me.
So my understanding to get the best scope of gh quality is to pin 10iu then two hours later get bloods not just on igf levels but also actual gh levels. For ugl, if you have elevated igf along with growth scores of like 30+ then you’re probably sitting pretty. As for the relationship between liver enzyme activity and its actual effects igf 1 production I’m unsure. Alt/ast aren’t really that great of indicators of current liver health. It’s just enzyme production which can fluctuate from things like metabolic stress from training or even just hydration levels. Without things like ggt and albumin levels were not getting a clear picture. I would almost think estrogen levels would have a greater effect of igf 1 levels as estradiol seems to be directly related towards igf1 production. There’s a lot of evidence showing as e2 elevates systemic igf1 concurrently elevates a good deal as well up to a certain point. Do you know what your estrogen levels were for this? I’m just prodding
E2 would be in the 30s range pg/mL. I don’t have the bloodwork to show that for this specific test, but I have a handful of other tests over the last 3 years to know 150mg/wk test puts me in the 30s. Albumin was 4.1-4.3 g/dL for both tests. The only variable changed between the two tests is AST/ALT being lower on the second test.
It was elevated from taking an oral prior to even starting the Supreme A kit. So the liver was definitely in a “stressed” state from the jump. As it has recovered (which I’m assuming based on AST/ALT lowering), my igf1 has increased while doing the same dosage/pinning/kit schedule.
Kits4Less asked if I’d be willing to do a third test. I just ordered another round of CMP and IGF1 for 4/11. So we can see for sure if the trend of AST/ALT lowering keeps increasing my igf level from 6IU/day protocol. I did not accept the offer for reimbursement to maintain the integrity of the results. I’ll keep everyone updated and post the results as soon as I get them.
Definitely interesting! I’ll be looking forward to the next test
The ratio of Alt/Ast are what you look for as far as liver damage or disease. I’m pretty sure he’s not using an AI and only doing a low dosage of like 150mg test. The only thing that has changed since his last test is enzymes getting closer to normal range.
I see. For sure. They just aren’t really that elevated enough to the point where liver function would be that inhibited to where it would have an impact on igf1 production to that extent. I would think anyway I don’t really know. So I’m just looking for what other things could be going on
Therealist2018Great bro. Happy for you.
IGF practically doubled! This is super interesting. If you’re willing to do another test in 2 more weeks I’d be happy to fully reimburse you, straight crypto payment if you’d like, doesn’t have to be store credit.
Just curious for the sake of science haha!
Very interesting. This looks like a clearer case right about now.
@Kits4lessdomestic
Another round of CMP and igf-1 ordered for Thursday morning 4/11. I couldn’t do 4/15, because of work and I’ll be out of Supreme A by the time I could get back. It would mess with the experiment switching to Deluxe C.
No reimbursement needed. I too am curious, and it’s for the benefit of the community. The offer is appreciated though.
Thank you a ton for everything you're doing for this community! Really cool :-)
All of these threads have been extremely insightful, THIS is how we learn! Your IGF results have been an incredible educational opportunity thus far.
I couldn’t go 4/15, because I’ll be out of town for work. I could go 4/11 for an additional test though. 10 days instead of 14. No reimbursement needed.
Thank you for taking the time to post these my brother much respect to you
And im glad you are getting better results
Boom! That’s what I’m talking about SeeOhShow! Respect that contribution to our community right there bro
Nice brother, thanks….you’re a real one much love! Imagine if your enzymes were in the high normal range, approx 40ish.
Def better results there. You're awesome man, thanks for testing. You've really been contributing to this site.
That seems crazy that just that little bit of elevation would make so much of a difference to IGF levels - so one would conclude almost that there is no point in running HGH if you are using orals at the same time?!!
This is exactly what I was worried about and people told me it has no effect. I think it’s 100% why I’m not getting any effect from my gh. My liver enzymes are through the roof right now. People keep saying it only effects natural gh production but so many of my issues lately have been related to my liver so I had a feeling this was too. What I am surprised by is just how much it effected it. But I’m glad to have confirmation my theory was correct
What kind of levels have you seen your ALT & AST at mate - you can tell me in PM if you want?
Idk haven’t gotten them measured yet. But I stopped orals and almost all my issues resolved within a week or two. So I guess they could be lowered now, but Im not sure. I think I have a little liver damage because the last two times they were still in range but high end. I don’t remember the numbers but im guessing this time they’ll be higher. When I get home from visiting my mom im getting some bloodwork done so I’ll know for sure
You'll be okay mate, I've been the master of Liver abuse through out my life what with heavy drinking for 15 years and then AAS use, I have no kind of damage and I've had 2 ultrasounds over the years on Doctors orders to check. You are worrying about nothing buddy
The liver is a very tough organ to inflict permanent damage on.
Oh I’m not like super worried , cus like you said I know it can heal. I’m just worried about the effects it’s having on my health currently. I’m sure it’ll come back down and be fine I just don’t know how long it takes. I thought I’d feel lethargic like I do from superdrol, if I was effecting my liver a lot but I guess not. And thanks for the reassurance!
I’d like to PM you something if that’s ok
Of course, FR accepted
This for sure. My wife was diagnosed with cirrhosis in 2016. Anyone that thinks you can’t recover from that, she is a living testament. Today all her levels are in normal range and she only has to get a check in with her specialist once per year. Once you stop the abuse, the ability to recover is a miracle in itself.
I knew it could recover somewhat but cirrhosis, that’s awesome man I’m glad she’s ok
I have her metabolic panel from first diagnosis to her most updated one recently, it’s utterly shocking to be honest.
WoW I have often heard and it was my understanding that once you hit cirrhosis stage it is not reversible, she must have been very lucky to be able to do that mate.
My thinking is most ppl don’t stop what they’re doing. A childhood friend of mine went through the same thing close to the time she did. He wouldn’t stop drinking. He died less than 2 years later. Her AST/ALT went from 226/64 in 2016 to 22/19 her last panel a couple months ago. Her Biribulum went from 6.8 to 0.6, normal range high end is 1.1. She had jaundice from head to toe including eyes. Specialist told her she may need a transplant in as early as 6 years. Here she is 8 years later with a more stable panel than me. 2:1 AST/ALT ratio indicates severe liver damage, hers was almost 4:1. Those numbers have disappeared.
That's truly brilliant that you have both managed to stop what you were doing and destroying yourselves mate, we don't mean for this to happen at the time we are alcoholics but it just does. You know whats going on and the destruction being caused, but yet you still cannot pull yourself out of it and beat the addiction - for some reason even though you are effectively dying the power of the desire to drink consumes you. I was up at 210 AST when I had AAS hepatitis, the pain in my stomach was unbearable and I could barely drink anything, definitely not able to eat. Took about 16 hours of zero AAS use for it to fall to the point of being able to consume food again. On the day I was in, the Liver specialist wanted me back in 7 days to do a biopsy where they stick the big needle through the side of your rib cage to pull a bit of your liver out, the mere thought of that needle nearly had me passing out on the floor. I went back in 7 days for more bloods expecting to hear the worst and he just said congratulations it has fallen back near safe levels again and we no longer need to do the operation. She was right on the limit if she was jaundiced too.
You are absolutely correct. Addiction is wicked and not many ppl overcome it before it’s too late. The liver biopsy, she had to get a blood transfusion beforehand, the local hospital botched it so we had to travel to a University Hospital near us to have it done again. Outlook was not good for a while, but things slowly made a turn. The poor girl has been through it with her health, she’s constantly at appointments/tests/surgeries etc. She’s honestly by far the strongest person I’ve ever met.
OMG Bro, OMG - The liver specialist made it sound to me like it was no big deal, just a needle in and out BUT if she had to have a blood transfusion beforehand then it sounds pretty damn severe to me!! Tell me, do you guys have to pay for Biopsies and liver transplants over there?
Her insurance covered everything thankfully.
Steroid use and associated liver damage aside, that is absolutely great news. Happy wife, happy life. I’m glad she came out perfectly healthy to harass and nag you for many years to come. I’d be lost without my better half giving me shit all the time.
Thank you man, and yes she 100% is fulfilling her obligation on that!!
That’s kinda how I’m seeing it. I changed absolutely nothing between tests in terms of dosage or pinning schedule. I was likely also a little elevated on enzymes Monday because on Saturday I ran a 7 mile race which was all through woods/massive hills while wearing ~50lbs of gear. My body was absolutely wrecked and I can guarantee the muscle stress contributed to some liver enzyme elevation.
This is actually very valuable info, thank you!
I bet a certain HGH source is breathing a Big sigh of relief!!! Lmfao
Almost spit out my coffee reading this --
LMAO!!! Good sport
So what colour did you get him that Lamborghini in? 
Satin purple with gloss black wheels.
Damn mate - You have AWESOME taste!!! Not just normal Green then, you went 2 levels above and beyond Lol Just wait till that first clutch bill hits him, then you'll have revenge Lmao
Thanks for posting this. This is why bloodwork is so important. This was an eye opener.