+ 5 Bayer Testoviron Depot 250 mg/ml TRT dose - head scratcher
So been running this Bayer Testoviron Depot 250mg/ml at 62.5mg every 3.5 days for TRT. Went and pulled bloods this morning and attached are the results. Last pin was yesterday evening. I’m not sure how this is even possible?!?! Could it be this pharma grade test is actually fake but seriously overdosed? Maybe a lab error?
For those across the pond in the US this converts to 2678 ng/dl. Estrodial is also pretty high. I’ve got an appointment with the endo next Friday so not sure what to think to be honest. Can’t imagine he’ll be very happy about these results. Thoughts appreciated!
Edit: forgot to add I am on 250iu of HCG EOD. Not sure that would make a big difference in total testosterone but could explain the high estrodial.
Added some graphs for IrishMack
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UPDATE:
Latest blood test shows total testosterone at 33nmol/l which equates to 952ng/dl. Estro was at 45pg/ml - slightly raised but no need to treat and will likely reduce as the effect of the HCG wares off. Only change was HCG was dropped 9 days before this blood draw. Endo is very happy with these numbers.
Guess it was the HCG after all!!!
Next test in 8 weeks!
And I was getting jealous of your lack of oestrogen sensitivity!
I know nothing about it but could hmg be a possible alternative?
Hahahaha. Yeah as I understand it the only use HMG if the HCG on its own doesn’t work for fertility purposes. I’m no expert but that’s my understanding. Thanks for genidea though I’ll chat to the endo about.
Damn, that's a huge difference. Glad things are working out now.
Yes it’s pretty incredible. Endo thinks I’m a “super responder” to HCG. Will get through the next test and then he will add the HCG back in at a lower dose and different protocol and see how things go!
That’s insane! Amazed at the being the cause for that greater increase! Every days a school day!
Thanks for posting bud....
62.5mg of test every 3 days is a cycle. Looking at your bloods you can clearly see. 5 days is the decline so you are not refreshing the dose every 3 days, you are adding to it.
Why not just do it once a week? Its not overdosed test, its the way you are taking the medicine.
125mg of testosterone E per week is a cycle?
What would it matter if he was injecting 62.5mg every 3.5 days or 17.85mg ED or 125mg E7D? It still adds up to the same number per week and more frequent injections help stabilise blood levels.
Common sense surely would dictate to drop the HCG and retest a few weeks later?
Its called halflife, halflife of enanthate is 5 days, if you do the math in 5 days 60 is 30, in 3 days its then being added another 60 to lets say 20 is now 60 so its now 80, now 80÷3 is 26, 26+60 is 86, and it keeps increasing not stabilizing. it's also based on his and anyones metabolism.
generally speaking if something has a halflife of 7 days, eventually your bloods will go up to double of what you inject weekly. so in this scenario, if you took idk.... 120 every week and it had a half life of one week, you will have at your maximum 240. You have to remember there is also decay, If the number gets too large it drops more, but the amount you are adding is constant.
Take a look at the three graphs I’ve just uploaded which will deal with your half life point. You forgot to mention the decay factor. I’m sorry but you’re wrong here. It does stabilise as the graphs clearly show. This is 101 stuff and the reason we dose enanthate/cypionate twice weekly at a minimum in cycles. I do agree with your comment regarding everyone metabolism being different which is why I said the dose may be too high for me and need to lowered!
The only way in the entire world of physiology you will get stable bloods from injections is by injecting a test acetate every day at 7mg and then repeating it at exactly the same time 12 hours later. My doctor is one of the best in the USA and he has me on once a week injections. I have been over the whole stabile bloods with him until I was blue in the face. The average male produces 5-7mg of test a day, so injecting 62.5 within a few hours you are at 62.5. you have just lost stability. I am on a weekly schedule and I have been stable as it will ever get. You are trying to reinvent the wheel that has already been in motion. After tou drop the hcg im willing to bet the test levels you have are not going to drop down to less then 1100 which is the high norm of test levels. You may go to 2k if you continue to dose the way you are. Its common volume physics on top of math IF we use all the data we are given.
Unfortunately for you and your 'one of the best doctors in the USA' the graphs don't lie IM.
It will be interesting to see the effect dropping the hcg will have who knows what will. Looking forward to the results.
Im only trying to help with the knowledge I was learned and told. Im going to go back to just observing again amd not try and help at all. Thanks for reminding me.
Don't take it personally IM. Through debate we learn.
Sorry but I don’t agree!
The dose he wants me on is 250mg every two weeks If you graph that dose v 125mg every week v 62.5mg every 3.5 days it’s the same amount of test but with more stable blood levels with the more frequent dosing. I accept the dose could be too high and this may need to adjusted down but the frequency of my injections v your weekly suggestion will yield more stable blood levels for the same amount of test.
If you read the rest of this thread you will see he HCG is the likely issue here. This has been stopped and I am having blood on Thursday and seeing my endo on Friday so will adjust from there.
RustyhookerIm sure hcg boosted you up but halflife too....?
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/how-half-life-math-works
Yes exactly what I am saying and what the graphs show!
I dont follow those graphs because as you can see by your bloodwork, they are not accurate. Are you using the prescription aas you were given or a ugl? If its a ugl then its possible its way overdosed, if you are using your prescription then you can see the charts are wrong and its not stabilizing but increasing.
I’m using pharma grade but not the prescription. In the U.K. prescription test e only comes in 250mg/ml amps which makes dosing other than once every 2/3 weeks this was very difficult. Endo knows I am on 62.5mg e3.5days and agrees this will lead to more stable blood levels than 125mg once a week or 250mg every 2 weeks. So I guess we can agree our doctors don’t agree.
The complicating factor here is I was on 250iu HCG eod until the day before the test. The belief here is this could have been enough to get me to close on 1500 which plus the test e dose I’m on got me to around 2700. The test on Thursday this week should clarify.
I don’t want to argue with you but for me the mats don’t lie and never have let me down in the past. Any by your logic we should only dose any enanthate or cypionate cycle regardless of compound once a week which of course we preach not to.
You forget one important thing, you are on trt not a cycle, dosing for both is different. Hcg itself does not boost test levels to that high, if it did why would anyone cycle when all we would have to do is take hcg? Im sure you will find your answer with due diligence, good luck.
Look at Eagertolearn’s post below and you will see where HCG alone got him! And I did some research after some discussion here and in some medical studies HCG alone was boosting guys into the the high normal and supraphysialogical levels. It rapidly declines after approximately 140 hours to normal levels. I can dig out the study if you like.
Everything else I have read has guys on trt on twice weekly injection of between 100mg and 125mg (in total) of cyp or enanthate. This is what my endo wants me doing and so this is what I will do. In any event I will update here with the latest blood test following this Thursdays blood draw and my endo appointment on Friday. Let’s see what the results say then.
Oh and I might have missed it but how come you’re using so much hcg? Are you trying to regain lost testicle size quickly?
I’ve been self trt’ing for about 3-4yrs and only use 375iu once a week to keep testicle size.
It’s for fertility maintenance. It’s a long story but not my only route. I have sperm frozen which will be used this year if it doesn’t happen naturally.
Ah that makes sense mate, just wondered......
Crazy stuff, personally I’d lean towards a lab error purely because surely you are experienced enough to know how you’d feel at that test level if it were true?? Even if caused by the hcg?
+1 for posting btw
Well I tested because I felt something was off. If your read the posts below you will see I’ve never pulled an estro level this high before even when I’ve run 750mg Test e per week. This is from the HCG. I’m also newly on trt so we are trying to get this dialled in. With respect I’m not sure steroid cycle experience is that relevant here. What was relevant was my experience telling me something wasn’t right. When in doubt always blood test which is what I did.
Ah see I didn’t realise you’d got the blood test purely because you felt something was off, that makes more sense. I wasn’t being disrespectful to you bud if that’s how you took it?
No not at all mate. I wasn’tvery clear in the original post. I was more trying to say I hope to never feel too experienced to learn new stuff.
Fair enough bud, will be interesting to see how your follow up tests go.
Absolutely could be the hcg. That stuff is strong enough to run a cycle on solo, not that I’d recommend it.
Thanks mate. Let’s see what the the next results say after I’ve dropped the HCG.
I think this is possible, depending on how well your testicles still function.
On HcG 3x 500iu per week and nothing else I had 1600ng/dl two years ago and a free test of 3x higher than the reference range
Having thought about this a bit more I think you are spot on. Let’s assume the HCG got me to around 1600 ng/dl - so about 56 nmol/L. The test should have gotten me to about 850 ng/dl - so about 29 nmol/L. Sum the two together and you have 85 ng/dl which is very close to my reading. This makes sense and is pretty interesting. Now I wonder how quickly the test from the HCG will come down!
Keep in mind though that a persons response to HcG is VERY individual, depending on leydig cell number and function and also your levels of SHBG (which would artificially elevate them). I think 2 weeks should easily be enough to have your system cleared of your endogenous test (mainly due to SHBGs half-life of about 1 week). But assuming you are very similar to me, then yes it would make perfect sense
Excellent. Good info thanks. I’ve always felt I responded well to HCG when I used it in the past on cycle or pre-PCT but never blood tested. The other interesting factor here is my high E2. Ive Run up to 750mg of Test per week and not needed an AI - was top of the range but no AI needed. So again this is likely to be the HCG. I’ve always read it can aromatise pretty heavily so here is the proof! Thanks again.
Yes, HcG induces aromatase expression in Sertoli cells, definitely. Good luck buddy
Thanks for th feedback. This is what I’m starting to believe. I’ve dropped the HCG. Will retest on Thursday next week and should have results on Friday. Will keep this thread updated.
I would retest. There is obviously some kind of mistake surely.
Thanks for sharing
Lab is adamant there has been no mistake. Will do as Makwa says and just drop the HCG and keep test the same. Will update here with new results next Friday with the endo tests at the hospital.
That is a head scratcher for sure. Doesn't seem possible. No way it could be that overdosed to give those results. Those are some numbers I would expect from 500mg/wk.
Yeah. Take a look below at my replies to Rusty. Will stop the HCG and move to every 5 days and see how I go.
I would probably keep test dose the same and just drop the HCG to see if that is the culprit here, or the lab could have screwed up.
First thing I did was ask the lab. They’re adamant there has been no mistake. Will do as you say and see what the results say from next Thursday’s blood test with the endo at the hospital.
RustyhookerHard to answer bro. Hcg does its job too. Would have to stop hcg for a real look.
Estro fix too
Yeap exactly. It’s very strange as I’ve never pulled such a high estro number in my life even running 750mg Test a weekend no AI. I wasn’t on any HCG then so I’m thinking I’m particularly sensitive to HCG converting to estrogen. I’m going to stop it now and see what the bloods say next Thursday. Also thinking about lowering the testosterone dose to 62.5mg every 5 days.
RustyhookerAgree something set ya off. With roughly 120 a week to hit that number. Lol. If it was testosterone all alone, it would seem reasonable that its 250mg per 62.5mg on the pin.
Hahahaha. I’m pretty sure if that test was so overdosed I would be getting some pretty real PIP and these injections have been smooth and pain free with very thick oil - just like pharma always has been when I’ve used it. So very weird. I’ve been researching and it seems even low dosed HCG can have some pretty radical effects on intertesticular and serum testosterone so I’m starting to form a view that it’s he HCG causing these high levels. I’ll keep you updated here.
RustyhookerYoure on the right track. Will watch and learn.
Damn brother for half a ml to put you at 2600 it would have to be like 1000mg/ml or some shit close to that.
That is wack Mr Dack!!!!!!
With that being said your E2 is inline with that dose of test and no AI administered.
+ for posting, good luck on getting to the bottom of this, keep us posted