PoundForPound's picture
PoundForPound
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Silk Road creator gets LIFE! Scary Shit!

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ROSS ULBRICHT CONCEIVED of his Silk Road black market as an online utopia beyond law enforcement’s reach. Now he’ll spend the rest of his life firmly in its grasp, locked inside a federal penitentiary.

https://www.facebook.com/topic/Silk-Road/250638708323166?source=whrt&pos...

eric11's picture

poor guy the us. government is just as guilty

SenseiMiagi's picture

This is what happens when I take a Modafinil for the first time in a few weeks......in between these opinion pieces, I was lecturing my co-workers lol. Good evening workout knocked it out of me Smile

SenseiMiagi's picture

I honestly think his sentence was necessary, and anything less would not have worked out in the long run. He was the first of his kind. No one had ever achieved the type of open market and accessibility to illegal items like he did. There was no precedence for this type of enterprise, so it had to be set.

Yes, he only created an avenue for sellers and buyers to do business..however that avenue created also destroyed an already failing attempt to keep drugs out of the hands of minors. Law Enforcement cannot let this go without maximum punishment. There has to be a deterrent if you expect to keep others from doing the same thing. History tells us deterrence has only minimum impact, but thats how our system works.

Life in prison is the only option if theyre serious about convincing others from repeating the business model. I am all for freedom to make our own choices, but the public has proven time and time again that there are many out there that should NOT have this ability due to their reckless and violent behavior.

I think he got a bit greedy, and if his marketplace had more restrictions, maybe he gets a lesser charge, but the ease to connect showed he gave 0 consideration regarding innapropriate usage when as the administrator he had the power to do so.

Not a popular stance on this, and I liked his idea...however there was no choice but life in prison for this "pioneer" of the drug industry.

PoundForPound's picture

Well, Mr. Miagi,
With a fascist, law-and-order, cop-style viewpoint like that, why would you be on a site like this? Do we belong in prison too? You and I? Or are you a cop?

SenseiMiagi's picture

Fair enough response to my opinion, guess I expected some disagreement. No I am not a cop, and no I do not draw a correlation to what is discussed/offered on this site to what was done on Silk Road. I cannot group all scheduled drugs in the same category, as I believe many of the chemicals available today hold little to no value.

My post is in reference to the response from the legal system and at this time is correct. Do I personally believe that certain products be made legal and available to the adult public? Yes, but not everything. I think this gentlemans idea was a good one, and obviously had a big market for it...however it could have been done differently. Society is not ready for 100% access to all chemicals, and at one point guns. We are just now testing the waters on marijuana...fairly successfully.

No, I dont think anyone should have uninhibited access to stolen firearms
No, I dont think one should be able to have heroin mailed to their doorstep in 3 days no questions asked
No, I dont think crystal methamphetemines should be accessible to anyone with an internet connection.

Maybe this is because Im older and am raising 2 children, but some items are better kept "harder" to obtain....

I dont appreciate being labeled a cop based on my opinion of something as this. Silk Road was a big enterprise..not just monetarily, but for society as well. You cant honestly tell me that many of the things offered on Silk Road should be available to all citizens no questions asked?

Again, just my opinions. I dont think negatively towards those that think otherwise. To each their own.

If Ross Ulbricht were a middle aged African American or Latino gentleman living in Costa Rica would there be as much outrage over his sentence? Likely not IMO.

PoundForPound's picture

Okay man,
Let me start by apologizing for the tone, and some of the content of my response. I read your comment right out of bed one morning and fired off my response impulsively. Doing anything like that right when I wake up is always a mistake.

I don't know your age and legal history, and it's not my business, nor does it impact upon your right to express your thoughts. Especially in a clear and open way, as you've done.

My age and record may have unavoidably colored my beliefs. When I read what I think of as of right wing opinions supporting draconian punishments for anything because the author sees such long term sentences as deterrents to crime, I cringe.

Consider the failed War On Drugs which has helped to nearly bankrupt out nation. I'm a guy who did two years in State for a simple possession of a C.S. If anything, it made me more likely to use more upon release because the experience subtly reinforced my feelings of despair and personal uselessness. Even disregarding my personal, touchy-feely sharing, one only needs to consult statistics regarding the effectiveness of such legislation that created thing like the massive Cops/Courts/Prisons/Parole Complex that replaced the Military Industrial complex to see the truth of the folly of such a policy. Really, people want people imprisoned based on fear and retributive sensibilities rather than based on rational motives. Then, they invent emotionally charged reasons that appeal to the publics' knee-jerk fears and tell themselves and eachother that they're right, and righteous.

Also, my greater point is this:
Our police state government will never be able to keep the Information Revolution-Genie in the bottle. Putting this guy away for life--LIFE!--does nothing to stop the race between prorammers and hackers (ie: Programmers vs. Programmers). Unless we have some dystopian fascist, police state, Big Brother government in the future and for all time, this is only the primitive beginning of such free flow of information, illicit and otherwise.

It's going to be a new war on ourselves that is unwinnale, yet totally capable of ruining us in the long run, if tried for anywhere near as long as the war on drugs which Nixon kicked off, for Fux Sake!
Thanks

SenseiMiagi's picture

Absolutely accept the apology, no harm done. Believe it or not I am not a conservative, and I am definitely not a supporter of big government. I believe I should be able to decide for myself what I put in my body, and how I do it. I just unfortunately do not trust the general population with this decision.

My profile states my age and a little bit of my background. You are correct, the prison system along with the war on drugs is a fail, fail, failed situation. Recidivism rates prove that the deterrence of prison has a small effect on most. Drug users should not be incarcerated. Treatment for the addicts of course, and an alternative for the non-addict user. Unfortunately this a large concept to switch to and would/will take time.

We agree on more than you realize from my first post. In short, I do not think our current society is equipped to increase the risk of more addicts. Im concerned about the heavy highly addictive drugs with no ise outside of creating instant addicts. We cannot stop information, or drug flow through the avenues of the internet....much like we cant stop technology of nuclear weapons. It is inevitable.

I guess most of my arguments stem on the opinion that we (America) are not ready to take on this dramatic change. Its like going from 0 to 90mph in 2 seconds. Getting drugs/firearms from the shady dealer at the bar, or on the street corner is archaic in relation to ordering it similar to amazon. Thats a big leap, and Im not sure the majority could handle the rlpersonal responsibility of it.

If all drugs were legalized tomorrow, and were made available on ebay. Buyers were expected to use their own discretion in use I think we would have a big problem. Poverty would rise, gap between rich and poor would distance, and a good number of people would become users that would otherwise not. Crack, Heroin, Meth are all drugs with extremely high addiction rates...almost guaranteed. Our current policies around treatment and incarceration could not handle it.

Now on to Ross. Love his idea. I like to smoke marinuana a couple times a week. It is not easy for me to get more when I run out due to my job/family life/circle of friends...id love to be able to order it discreetly with no risk...but im not comfortable trading that convenience for the rest of the shit that can come with it. Baby steps. The road to personal choice and acceptance must be slow....starting with our 4 states working marijuana. Wont happen tomorro, but in time hopefully we get there. I just dont think now is wise to hit the fast lane.

So his punishment, although steep seems appropriate to me given the magnitude of what he kicked off. No he didnt personally make the deals, but he provided the platform and offered protection to dealers for a fee for a customer base they never had access to before. If I offer my house to all the dealers in my area to use for their transactions with the promise to keep them anonymous...as long as they leave me 10% on the table...maybe these deals indirectly caused killings, addiction, robberies, rapes, etc......whos to blame? Plausible argument to made for both sides.

Holy shit, Ive typed too much...maybe even lost track of my point....as I said to Tony...Good debate. I can and do understand where you are coming from.

PoundForPound's picture

Excellent.
I'm for legalization of most things. But we aren't ready for it across the board, as you said. We do agree on plenty. I'm actually extremely anti gun. I've been shot before and it was by a scared mother fucker who didn't need to be, but had the gun in his hand. Guns are for pussies.
But, I'm not a believer that govt should try to disarm its citizenry here in 'Merica. It's way too late for that.
It would be nice if we were like UK in that, but that ms another genie am that will never get back in the bottle. They also have done just fine with legalizing drugs. I had friends in my using days who sent to clinics in UK for cocaine and other things, just like Methadone here. Except ability to pay wasn't a concern. Amsterdam is a happy vibrant city.
There are so many examples in other countries of things like cops without guns, legal drugs, free health care, that arrogant Americans either wave away with ignorant statements like "That's SOCIALISM! GASP!"
And other Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My! We say those things would never work, but they ARE working just splendidly "over there."
It's odd though that steroids and the like are exception even in some of those countries.

SenseiMiagi's picture

Yes, yes, yes. Its frustrating knowing lifestyles work in other countries, but our politicians wont even fathom it...along with their constituents. I dont own guns, but like you think we have a right to own....its hard sometimes though when you have to watch idiots on the news show us all that they shouldnt be within 100 miles of firearms.....seems idiocy is the majority here, and that causes us all to suffer. Love my country 'Merica, but we as a whole are a bunch of dipshits.

PoundForPound's picture

-+1 on that!

tonytulo's picture

"No, I dont think anyone should have uninhibited access to stolen firearms
No, I dont think one should be able to have heroin mailed to their doorstep in 3 days no questions asked
No, I dont think crystal methamphetemines should be accessible to anyone with an internet connection."

Problem is locking this guy up for the rest of his life does nothing to help any of those three things out. You can get all three quicker in person. An of you get caught selling or buying any of those 3 in person you will get a third if not a quarter of the time this guy got depending on your record, and if that's the case just say your struggling due to being addicted to a substance.

I too am raising children hence why I think a habitual child molester should do more time than this guy , that a habitual rapist should do more time than this guy , that a convicted murderer should do more time than this guy, that the people getting caught in person selling any of the things that were available should do atleast a quarter of the time this guy got, that a person who is buying in person all the things that were a available on his site should do more time. Instead we lock a guy up without a record for the rest of his life who set up basically an internet craigslist where an anonymous seller reaches out to an anonymous buyer.

All the things that were available on his site are readily available in everyday life , guns , stolen guns , drugs , material to manufacture bombs , murder for hire, etc etc etc. Giving this guy a life sentence is going to stop people from obtaining those things like outlawing super sizing at McDonalds helped people who eat there from getting fat and suffering from poor health issues in result to their eating.

I think we have bigger issues in our country at the moment than making a big deal out of this guy. There are multiple sites just like his that are still out there in the dark web. Which I might add is pretty difficult to get into for us let alone our children. If we really want to make examples of people there are far better people to do it to who walk around in day to day life, not in imaginary land online.

Many of the chemicals here on this site can be extremely harmful if used and abused just like any other drugs. Many people have died because they were careless and reckless.

If he was black or Hispanic id feel the same way about him. If he had 2 or 3 heads and 1 leg id still feel the same about his sentence. The color of his skin I could give a fuck about right along with his physical appearance, we have guys who dress up as religious priests who molest children , guys in business clothes with great jobs molesting children and murdering people, pill mills and doctors prescribing medication that is extremely harmful and addictive , detox clinics that put you on a different drug to get you off another.

This was about money and tax evasion. He didn't pay uncle sam and financially prospered from it so they sank his ass. No one who sold anything was arrested and smoked , no one who bought large quantities of anything sold on his site were arrested and smoked either.

SenseiMiagi's picture

All valid points, and I think both sides of this debate have legitimate positions. Im aware all of these things can be gotten outside of a website, however many would be deterred from walking down to the dark corner and meeting a guy named "Jose" to purchase their drugs/firearm/whatever illegal item he is selling. I sure as hell wouldnt travel downtown when I was 15 to meet a scary dude in a back alley to pick up that 8 ball. Accessibility brings otherwise non users into the game much easier.

Im looking at this from a societal view. Rational adults can make rational decisions on what they want and how they get it. You, me, and most people on this forum would be considered rational adults with their own boundaries. Society is not a rational adult. How many times do we watch riots, murders, molestation, beatings, violent public shamings, and think to ourselves "what the fuck are they thinking"? We dont all think morally, or non violently.

I do agree a bigger effort should have been made to catch the sellers, but not so much the buyers. Lets not forget Ross isnt completely innocent of wrong doing, he did attempt to hire an undercover agent to murder employees he thought were stealing.

We all, including the sources accept the risk we face by being in this lifestyle. We are conscience of the boundaries, this is why sched 2 drugs are not allowed....too much risk. Ross knew this risk by being the "CEO" of a site that allowed the transfer of, according to law, felony offenses. Sure another one will pop up and probably has already....supply and demand makes that happen, but where does it stop? Like it or not there is a large demand for child pornography, building devastating bombs, murder for hire, rape for hire, dismemberment for hire....all things people will pay good money for, but is typically VERY difficult to accomodate for the average person. Not anymore, and its frightening.

I respect the opinions by you and pound4pound (except the fascist, and cop name calling), and hell in time I may even side with you. Right now given the info I know....it seems to me the head of the snake had to be cut to set precedent. Im not worried about the damned marijuana, AAS, or even cocaine that was available on Silk Road. Its the harsher things that are concerning, and the thought of what else could become readily available in the future if the "free market" isnt slowed down so to speak.

Good debate. I see your points, and appreciate the back and forth. Honestly forgot about my original post yesterday and wasnt intending on getting into this type of discussion....got a little motivated by the name calling.

tonytulo's picture

Its all good. I like different opinions and views as long as they're educated and well articulated bro.

SenseiMiagi's picture

Agreed....not sure I wanna try these long winded responses again...fat fingers and phone posting cause a lot of "b's" where I meant to put a space.

tonytulo's picture

You need a better phone my friend.

SenseiMiagi's picture

Haha, got the Note 4. Feels like a damned laptop holding against my ear.....i need skinnier fingers.

tonytulo's picture

What's mind boggling is he was the creator and owner of a website that helped people locate an anonymous seller of the product of their choosing. He wasn't himself selling anything. It wasn't like he was the worlds largest drug dealer, gun dealer etc etc. He was the owner and creator of a dark web site smfh. Not saying he should walk free. Owning a site where you can locate guns, all types of drugs, bombs , murder for hire, prostitution, basically anything and everything illegal or hard to obtain, if there was a market it for it and it was hard to obtain you could find it on there. Keeping all that in mind , they were not going to go easy on him...... But in the mean time kill someone and you can be out in ten years, sexually abuse women or children you could be out in under 3 to 10years and that's with multiple convictions, but if your conviction includes drug sales or anything where your not paying your dues to uncle sam and you better believe your going to get smoked. I remember being locked up with a guy from maine or nh I cant quite remember who was incarcerated for tax evasion last name was brown, no priors etc etc. Gave his wife and him life in prison........ the criminal justice system is seriously flawed in the united states amongst other things. Dedicate your life to fighting for are country and then you have to fight for your benefits and pension while struggling to stay afloat.... But if your obese you can get a disability check etc etc. Sad days we live in. Im sure there will be multiple appeals on his case, but I by no means agree he should get off scott free or with a slap on the wrist. Life in prison tho is a tad bit much.

tonytulo's picture

It reminds me of the war on drugs. Lets kill Escobar and that will put an end to our coke problem. How exactly did that work out...... What proves this is about money is they go after him but none of the providers of the illegal products....... So we are locking a guy up for the rest of his life without the possibility of parole for creating a website where sellers sold illegal things to members, basically charging him like he sold the products himself...... 15 TO 20 year bid in a federal prison would've been reasonable. The guy didn't make commission on every product sold lol. I dunno maybe im crazy.

strongman6969's picture

Very true, well said.

PoundForPound's picture

Very well said, Tony. It's definitely all about money, and corporate control of government.

jimmycrackcorn's picture

damn...wioud u really expect anything less though? u can get life for getting caught with a kilo of some fine dog food...im sure that guy was responsible for moving alot more than a kilo...

PoundForPound's picture

This is fucking OUTRAGEOUS. The judge gave this guy WAY MORE than the prosecutor even ASKED FOR! The dude never directly harmed anyone! He just tried to make "The Home of The Free," a tiny bit more than a fucking bullshit slogan!

jimmycrackcorn's picture

im not saying i believe its right or justified...but fuck thats the way it is...

PoundForPound's picture

Yup. Ya play, you might pay. I sure did, and I was cool with it. I knew the risk. But it would be nice to have a system that makes sense. This sentence is crazy. Do they think no ones going to find ways to do such things ever again because of this sentence? Ever? Hell, future technologies will make Silk Road look like child's play! That's certain.

jimmycrackcorn's picture

yeh ur right about that brother! there will be many more to come

tonytulo's picture

Link to any article?

PoundForPound's picture

Damn, I put it in there! I'll try to add it... Fuck!

tonytulo's picture

lol all good brother.