+ 1 HYPERTROPHY - Understanding why muscles grow
Hello Everyone,
I have been a personal trainer now for 10 years and constantly looking up ways to get big, lean, dense etc. Today I just want to explain the basic rules to growing and how to lift to get that way. This is a very dumbed down version as if i went into this completely it could take many pages. Just pm me with questions or ill reply on here.
Hypertrophy is the growth of muscle. There are basically 2 types of muscle fast and slow twitch muscles. Fast twitch muscles are the ones that have the greatest ability for growth and is why you see alot of power lifters putting up massive amounts of weight. Slow twitch muscles have a greater mitochondrial density and therefor can last longer through workouts but have a lesser affinity for growth.
When lifting to build muscle it is very important to make sure you FEEL the muscle that you are actually trying to work. Just because lat pulldowns are for the lats mainly doesn't mean that you cant wear out your bi's before your lats get any work. In short make sure the muscle you are lifting to grow is the one that you feel during your workout.
Ok jumping ahead very quickly, for ultimate hypertrophy its important to maximize both fast twitch and slow twitch muscles not 1 or the other. You do this by controlled moderately slow sets and very little rest. Your rep range should be 8 to 10 reps of a 3-1 tempo which means you take 3 FULL seconds to go through the negative and 1 full second through the positive that means if your on a bench press you take 3 seconds to come down and 1 second to go up NEVER pausing/resting the muscle. Make sure you can feel the chest contract the entire time! Beginners start out doing 10 sets for any given body part and move up to 20 sets a workout. ONLY ALLOW 1 MINUTE REST. Its very important to keep your pump that you only allow 1 minute in between sets.
All sets must go to failure or close to it. You are working your slow twitch muscles for about the first 7 and then when your going to failure on 8, 9, and 10 your working fast twitch even though your not going fast. If you are not working your hardest meaning not going to failure then your last 3 reps aren't going to count and your aren't going to grow to your maximum ability.
You should have for any given body part, lets take chest for example, 30 sets a week for beginners up to 60 sets a week for advanced and those should be divided up over 3 seperate days.
An example for me is chest monday wed and friday. Each day bench 5 sets, incline 5 sets, decline 5 sets and flys 5 sets. Thats 20 sets a day 3 days a week making 60 sets. This is an ultimate way to increase size. You can modify any of the exercises above, dumbbells, cables, pushups etc to mix up your routine as long as you apply the principles above.
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Dude, I don't know who you train, but if your training bodyparts 3 times per week and doing up 60 sets per bodypart, you can forget about adding any significant size.
Fucking NASA couldn't make steroids powerful enough to make you recover.
I train arms, for example, once every 10 days....I'm 5'6" and my arms are 20" now on cycle...19.25 off cycle. (pics in my profile) There is NO WAY I would ever overtrain like that.
The personal trainers at my gym are easy to spot...they're the guys in Dockers holding a clip board and telling old people how to lift, but never seem to break any records themselves. I don't give a shit WHAT Cutler says he does..or what any of the rest of the corporate-owned phony-ass pros say. If the pros were going to tell the truth, they'd talk about steroids and proper/safe cycling. So anything that comes out of their mouths means shit to me.
Google Stuart McRobert...or look at the routines of any major powerlifter. No powerlifter would ever train his chest 3 times per week. No bodybuilder looking for mass would ever train chest more than twice...and only one of those workouts would be heavy.
I won my first powerlifting competition in 1982, and have been bodybuilding for 31 years....Been around a lot of guys who were successful, and traning bodyparts 3 times a week is just plain foolish for any serious athlete.
BostonI agree 100%. I've tried both. less is more in the matter.
i thought it was kinda funny, not being an ass by all means just found it funny, but when i googled stuart mcrobert this was the third one down
http://muscleandbrawn.com/10-reasons-stuart-mcrobert-can-go-fuck-himself/
I read that...Stuarts problem is that he is anti-gear, so he takes heat for that. He's one of those guys who want to see steroids stay illegal, and thinks everyone should just train to their natural limit.
Obviously I agree with most of the article that was written in that link.
The rest part is something that Stuart was right about...but for me, that means going completely by feel. I don't even have a routine, because training is a "game-time decision". I don't touch that muscle until it feels like it's healed completely, and it's taken me a long time to be able to determine that.
Youre defiantly a big boy and whats working for u is doing well but you left out a big part of your training.....your stack. We cant compare information on training and your personal results with different levels of chemistry going into the body. Say we both lifted the exact same and your on a ton of gear and im on none, its a no brainer who is going to actually grow the fastest. In the world of top bodybuilding chemistry is just as important if not more important then lifting. You are definitely bigger then i am but whos to say your off cycle stacks arent massive compared to mine. Dont you think that may have a tiny bit of say in the statement you just posted. Im not saying your wrong by any means so dont take it the wrong way but your leaving out vital information that has majorly contributed to your overall physique. I have no intention of growing as big as you, i think it looks awesome but its not my style, but it doesnt mean i wont try to lift to get the most muscle from knowledge AND sweat through the small amount of gear that i do actually use.
That's a good point. I was terrified of doing steroids for decades because I was ignorant about them. When I saw the documentary "Bigger Faster Stronger" earlier this year, everything changed for me, and in March...maybe April...I did my first cycle. I was already about like this now, but I did manage to add just about 1.5 inches to my arms this summer, and my back got so big I was having problems with pinched nerves in my traps. That's gone away now and I'm just cruising on 125 mg. Test per week. I'm down about 6 pounds and have lost 3/4" off my arms, but still keeping most of my size. I start back Jan 5th, and the cycle will be:
Test E...1000 mg/wk
Deca.....600mg./wk
That may seem like a lot, but I'm 48 and higher doses are required.
Being on gear DOES allow me to train a little more frequently, but only for a week or two before I start to feel beat up and the pumps don't come by the first warm-up set.
haha, im glad we can finally agree. I was just gonna quote bigger stronger faster too!
calm down brother, its a debate for one, you sound like your going to blow your top.
LOL.... I should add that I was not talking about a person who was out of shape or really fat.....Cicuit training for them 3 times per week...and yes, that means chest.
read through the post mod, there were things stated later that most of the time its twice a week. 3 times maybe here or there for a lagging body part.
Agreed on that..especially when it comes to lagging forearms, calves, or loose abs.
I have trained calves and forearms 3 times per week for short periods.
further more if your read...youll see i also stated that its done just a few times, i dont neglect the other aspects of training with rest and sets, this is just 1 type of an arsenal to grow.
This post was taken a little out of context in that it became more of a whos right and whos wrong type of debate when its very important to hit EVERY type of overload in your training routines. I may hit this type of training 2 out of 4 weeks, mainly on a 3 day split (same body part twice a week) but every once in awhile throw in the extra day of a lagging body part. Even though i do mainly hypertrophy training there is still room for strength training 4 to 8 rep range with much more rest between sets and days off and same with Power training or pyramiding for greatest motor unit recruitment. These 2 types of training (strengh and power) will require a different split because of the massive strain on the cns, as building extra motor units and neural pathways takes more time to recover the muscle tissue. This is where a 4 day split comes in with active rest on my days off. There is no 1 set way and if anyone says there is im pretty sure 99 percent of lifters both novice and pro will agree, this was just another way to add volume to your training.
I find this to be a good post. I also agree with several of the comments. But in the end what I can come to figure out is that everyone is different. If you are lifting correctly your body will adapt and adjust to compenstate regardless how you train. Its a good things about how we are built. We adjust to our enviorment. Granted you may not gain size by training (say chest 3x a week) as you would if you trained once or twice a week. But as you said in lower comments this is based on the notion of lifting while on gear at the same time. I woudl not train my chest 3x a week with out gear I dont thnk.
Over all great post and I enjoyed the debate that was below.
AnonI wouldn't train chest more than once a week while I am running gear either. Rest has been the most critical component to MY training, along with diet of course. Even though gear helps you to recover quicker, it doesn't mean I abandon rest for the option of hitting chest twice a week. I have been ensuring that I get the rest I need and quite frankly my strength has shot up considerably and I have been able to maintain off cycle.
where to start.....i understand you said everyone has their own ways of lifting but honestly i was ready to look at your pictures and see a jacked, ripped bodybuilder from all the knowledge that you offer and i have to say, where are your competition pictures. Were talking about size here and honestly after 20 years of bodybuilding or size training so to say i thought you would be much bigger.
I do not mean to be a dick with that statement but with someone telling they have years of knowledge and training on muscle building i expect them to practice what they preach. Why would i take fat burning advice from the guy at gnc that claims he has all the knowledge and has used certain methods to lose weight and he is actually around 250 with absolutely no muscle (i say this because there literally is a guy in my area that does just that). Point being if someone is going to debate against my theory, one that i have shown results on myself and in other legitimate information from various other sites, they damn well better look like they have a ton of muscle, since thats what this entire debate is about, muscle growth....NOT power lifting, Not calisthenics, and not strength training.
I know this is what works for her as she stated and what works for her doesnt work for someone else but i was expecting information from body types like nicole duncan,tina durkin or mia finnagan, pro bodybuilders with shown proven results.
Again I swear i mean this in no offense in anyway.
tread-mI CAN ONLY GIVE YOU MY EXPERIENCE B. It will be different than yours or anyone elses, I trained for years 6 day a week hitting each body part 3 to 5 times. Actually set up a gym in a joining back room to my office at work pushing 2 hours a day and then going to Golds for another 2+ after work. Hit peaks quick and climbed the gear, got to where I was exceeding 4 hours a day lifting. The gear and gym took over my life and I simply had peaked. Thought it was over basically and a really bad experience came my way as a result and I walked away from it other than a simple little nothing workout a few times a week. Came back 2 years later as the turtle. Hokked up with some srious BB's and figured out my problems one at a time. The biggest and highest achieved pro card competitor of the 3 is at 260+ right now, solid muscle on muscle. Trains, as I have been doing, each body part once a week and repumps one muscle lacking an additional time on Saturday. I took my diet next level, brought the gear back to sane and have been growing consistantly (slow) for 2 years. People say you can't overtrain if you have rest and diet etc in place, well I did...at least for me. The guy I am referring to here where I live is still my brothers training partner and competes in the big show and spent a year with Cut man training with him as one of his personals. Cutler does not overtrain in the way you talk but I know some do. Its hard to argue with the Coleman argument but you have to compare Apples and Apples. I am not running 10 compounds including 10 iu's of pharma hgh and insulin so I can't look to achieve with Colemans plan. I have to find people running my turtle plan adopted from the builder I speak of in terms of gear. Don't get me wrong, this MFer wil cripple your ass with workouts you never dreamed of. My little bro went from having small legs to wearing jeans waaaay too big at the waist but tight as hell from there down and splitting a pair a week at least working legs one day a week. You walk in the gym and you crawl out! Lol. My point is this, you have to find what works for you and never be afraid to change if its not working or if it stops working. Simple, if you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result...well you get the point. If what you are doing is working then use it, but don't get stuck in a box. Always look to what works better even if Arnold wont agree with it. If Arnold had stood beside Cutler back in his day he would have looked ill. I loved Arnold but the science has changed and the quality changed with it. I love a 68 vette until I lay down in a new Lambo, then its not so impressive..lol. again, if what you are doing is working then by all means do it. It worked for me for a while and rather than changing I continued to do it expecting a different outcome and then got frustrated and things went wrong. I ended up crashing hard when i was over and I'm glad to have found another way. Theres no way in hell you could have convinced me to train each body part one day a week 5 years ago. I had to see, as you are asking for, proof. Once I saw the proof I had no arguments left. It was a simple, I'll try it...I did and it works for me. M.aybe it would not work for you but I just don't want you to get stuck in a box thinking there is one solution to everything. There are 10 solutions at least to any problem and you just have to find the one you like. It won't make others wrong, it just makes yours the best for you in your opinion. No diffferent than mine, its the best for me in my opinion. Last, you will not make yourself bigger by trying to make others feel smaller, you make yourself obsolete. We all have success in varying degree's and to encourage one another makes us all better, its why I encourage you.
I again want to apologize for making anyone feel small i was just trying to explain that i want information, as you did with the pro's, from someone that has been through what i was explaining and can give results and information based on just that and until you replied....no one was able to offer that kind of information without something to back it up. In the very beginning of this thread i was being bashed immediately as i had no clue what i was talking about which of course can send most people into a defensive mode trying to save themselves from being backed into a corner. Thanks again for being very professional with your answer and we all respect your information and thank you for motivating us to keep going with achievements.
Perfect reply tread and that is the exact kind of information i was looking for. Thanks for all your help and i agree 100 percent. I have already taken what some of the others have done into consideration and already planned on changing to once a week just to try it out. Your response was very professional and exactly the kind of information we all expect from a MOD.
AnonYou put a post up for public consumption and you get upset when people disagree and you try to call TECH because you used "personal" info to back your shit up and so the book written by Arnold.. well woop de doo... I can also produce books and articles along with anecdotal evidence to back them up.. If you want input from PRO BODY BUILDERS go to a PRO BODY BUILDER SITE.
Im getting mad when a no name person is telling me that my way will NOT work, Not you. Once again you never said anything against, you just stated that you only would train a body part once a week. Thats like an obese person saying they only need to diet 1 day to stay in shape. So what if you train it once a week, your build in no way shows that it is working for muscle growth, which is what this whole debate is about.
THEN SHOW THEM. Look at my results, look at my pictures and then look at yours...you may say you have done all this like i can say i have a nobel prize....do you think anyone is going to believe me?
How do we even know those pics are of you?
The bottom line is, none of us know for sure. If you post a blog for public consumption and comment, then take the advice you want and disregard the advice you don't agree with. But all of this other debate and personal attacks are foolish.
agreed
AnonI have been training for various sports over the years(ranging from body building in my early 20s to endurance sports such as triathlons in recent years, to power lifting which I am currently training for). I did NOT say I have been body building for twenty years. Nor is it prerequisite for answering a question regarding training... daddyd's question was on how often to train a body part, NOT how to be a body builder. AND quite frankly, this forum isn't strictly for body builders nor was it ever intended to be such. I don't care to train and diet anymore like I am competing and I don't HAVE to in order to know what I am talking about. and Yes you have come across as quite the dick.
Never said you were bodybuilding for 20 years. Being a professional surfer isnt a pre requisite for writing on surfing forums either but do you think anyone is going to my experience swimming in the ocean riding a few waves for the last 20 years? NO. So that statement has no purpose in your argument.
Im sorry you feel that way but unfortunately i cannot take advice from someone that in no way has proven my theory wrong. How can you back up your statements with nothing to show for it? Why would anyone care to listen to anyone that randomly writes on here without any way to back it up? Im sorry but your look does not show me someone that knows about gaining muscle as you look like the build of my mother ( someone that has played sports all of her life and has a naturally strong build) thats all. Thats not a bash but that one picture of you doesnt show me someone that looks like they know how to build muscle.
LOLOLOL!!! Granted, the pics aren't very clear, but I happen to personally know grrrrl---especially since I'm married to her, and I can tell you right now, that with a 565 pound squat, a 515 deadlift, and a 220 pound bench, (yeah, we have work to do on the bench), she'd smoke most of the guys in your (and our) gym.
For you to make generalizations like that based on a poor pic is not only inaccurate, but tasteless. Grrrl has periods of time where she is very lean and competes in different sports, so her look can change dramatically.
I'm not very proud of the way I look right now being off cycle...everyone tells me at the gym that I look great, but I know in my own mind that I'm much smaller.
Don't judge based on a few pics..... You'd be surprised how different she looks in person.
once again your posting strength and power stuff which doesn't matter to this conversation. sarcomere vs sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (I touched on this earlier)
I will be dropping this (again i apologize for anything taken the wrong way) but why wouldn't she post a few of her competition pics as well, im sure we would all love to see them.
We have plenty of competition video...but no pics from any competition...sorry. However, even if we did, you could simply say..."prove that's you"...just like I can say that about your pics. My apologies for getting involved with your thread...I'll avoid them from now on. I've instructed grrrl to do the same. But I will warn you right now about insults and belittlement.
Please carry on with your post..I really need to get back to other things.
BostonMan goth...thats hard to believe. And i mean no disrespect bro i hope you know that. But 515lb deadlift?? I gotta see that one. And would have to see the squat too. Those are infuckingcredible numbers! Hell the european world record is 550lbs by Aneta Florczyk. Is Your woman for real up there running with the big big girls?? 565lb squat? WHAT!?!?
I don't know what you're talkin about Bro.... 500 pound deadlifts by women in our gym is a common site... Grrrl's strong, but to be honest, she wouldn't even take 500 out of the rack to squat these days. I think she's leaving that part of her life behind and training more for longevity, although she still likes to deadlift heavy, and her bench is not something she's going to give up.
World record holder for women is Becca Swanson
Bench...600 pounds
Squat....854 pounds
Deadlift...683 pounds
See her here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7uUUufxKjw
Here's an average IPA female deadlifting 600 pounds quite easily, although she's doing band work.
We've been doin' this a while Bro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkWIJxH4_Fo&feature=related
BostonDamn...i cant pull 500...thats nuts goth. Man you should submit a video of your gym to scariest places on earth, im sure they come out lol.
It's a pretty serious gym, and is well known. I won't say the name, as it would instantly give away our city of residence, but let's just say that almost every member of that gym is striving to be a world class athlete in their respective power sport. We have a lot of powerlifters, olympic weight lifters, strongmen, olympic shot-put etc...and a ton of bodybuilders. Of course, then you have retired guys like me who sip coffee on the sidelines and reminisce about the old days.
Bostonwow...
well the only reason i go specifically with Arnold book on bodybuilding is because its something that everyone can relate and read. He even shows workouts with high volume sets at 20 to 26 sets a workout and the same muscle groups 3 times a week. This is a man who won numerous Olympias so im pretty sure he knows what hes talking about. Plus i personally have put on 25 extra lbs in the last 3 years from training this way so im not just going by "Personal Results" which everyone on this post does, once again everyone can benefit from different modalities of lifting, but at least 1 outside source to back my claim. Also many of these can be altered to fit a different type of lifter but the majority of muscle is proven to grow with certain days of training each week. I personally am not willing to just settle for an answer that once a week is enough to FULLY exert a muscle. Its sort of like half lives of gear. You want to redose as soon as your level drop to maintain a proper level of test in the body. The same thing goes for training muscle. Its proven that a muscle can fully recover in 48 hours from intense breakdown, NOT CNS BREAKDOWN, but muscle breakdown. Muscle is the second fastest thing in the body to recover outside of skin.
If someone is going to debate this please give outside sources of pros workouts not just what has happened personally. Or what someone has "Heard" of someone else do.
Plus most of you guys have probably adapted to these training styles for years and have never given anything else a try. You have to work pretty damn hard to over train. Lets face it if Ronnie can do same day split routines to make it to the top then it goes to show that most peoples perception of over training is not even close to what over training really is.
AnonI have been training for well over 20 years.. I have done splits, I have done different muscle groups together, I have done push/pull. I have trained for endurance sports and martial arts as well as bodybuilding competitions. YOU don't have to settle for MY answer that once is a week is good enough for ME. So what if Arnold wrote a workout book it worked for him. By the way Arnold's body of the 70's wouldn't win Mr. Indiana today.....He'd be smoked by ALL of the Mr. O competitors now. it doesn't work for EVERYONE or everyone would be doing it and there wouldn't any OTHER ways to train now would there.
Agreed, but as i had said in one of my very first posts about this, im just backing my claim that this type of training is proven to work, i was told to NEVER do this and that EVERYONE knows this information, this is where the debate started.
Yes once again i was giving one outside source not all "personal" experience as so far personal experience on this website hasn't show itself on an olympic circuit or a winning national contest, at least not the majority (myself included even though i would also state i never put the time in nor the right amount of gear). I had also said in this same post that Arnold would be "Trumped" in todays world but not necessarily by training modalities, as lets face it, they really haven't changed in years. What HAS changed in years are the numerous amounts of AAS that has come into play since the basics of DECA and DBOL. Especially since most bodybuilders these days are doing the most anabolic substance in the human body.....Insulin. I think i would attribute more of todays results from chemistry as no real "new" studies have trumped exercise types. They trained just as hard back in the day as todays bodybuilders do. We just have better nutrition, (whey for example) instead of raw eggs and like i had mentioned before chemistry.
BostonThis is what i was waiting for! Thanks grrrl. You know whats up. Btw the new pic is cute. Goth is a lucky man.
Daddy d what are your actual stats without lying. Weight height bodyfat etc. For all we know you could be 5'5" 145 lbs giving advice that you know nothing about. Im not saying that you dont but you have nothing posted, pics, stats or even give educational background to your posts. Wheres the proof? Anyone can get on here and spew basic crap that they have done......and once again im not saying that you dont know, but the way your presenting your argument shows no documentation or proven backing, its just what you "think".
Daddy d what are your actual stats without lying. Weight height bodyfat etc. For all we know you could be 5'5" 145 lbs giving advice that you know nothing about. Im not saying that you dont but you have nothing posted, pics, stats or even give educational background to your posts. Wheres the proof? Anyone can get on here and spew basic crap that they have done......and once again im not saying that you dont know, but the way your presenting your argument shows no documentation or proven backing, its just what you "think".
Bostonim 27, 6'2" 220 15%bf. Not been training consistantly but for 2 years. Off and on for last 12 years. I've had plenty of time to go many different routes as far as training goes. And i did the 2-3 times a week per muscle group and it didnt take long for me to pitch that plan and go once a week. In the past 2 years ive made dramatic progress. Dont know why you cant just realize that your ideas arent the greatest and that they lead to undesirable results in the end compared to less complicated splits.
maybe you should read some of the posts that were agreed upon, once again no backing other then "your results" which no one can prove other then maybe self pictures. You have contributed no knowledge whatsoever to this thread at all other then what you "think". You haven't given any stack info or even pictures of yourself for that matter. As of right now with minimal AAS use i trump you with results and educational backup to what i have to say. Especially in the terms that im arguing. Your adding other information that doesnt belong like cns fatigue, thats a different type of training that i had not mentioned or hit on. For the last time you are beating a dead horse with this in that i have stated numerous times which you have neglected to read, just ready to fight an argument, that clearly showed this is a modality that needs to go in conjunction with strength training and power training as well.
It didnt take long for you to pitch that plan meaning you couldnt handle it and you didnt give it enough time....Maybe you should read through the rest of the threads before you post.
BostonOk man
http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/the-truth-about-muscle-recovery-time-shor...
Heres a good read....remember the workout style i prescribed.
Also guys the third time is usually for Advanced guys but its also a way to get past plateaus. Ever have that one part that wont grow? Well you im sure have tried every way to increase its size? Well its possible that the genetic makeup of fibers are slow twitch? Every hear of someone doing abs every day?? Pushups? What about hershel walker the man that hardly used the weight room by just doing pushups situps and pullups in major volums was he over training? I use a 3 day split meaning in 6 days i have used each body part twice. That doesnt mean that on a sunday i cant hit the last stubborn group on sunday.
Some of the heavy bodybuilders do SAME DAY SPLITS.
This article was not written for all the problems you may encounter during the day because not everyone has them, working alot of hours, cant sleep well, doesnt know what to eat. Those are problems for every individual to over come. If one of my business men that works 80 hours said he was looking to grow i would immediatly bring up the things that would dramatically hold him back. I wrote this for everyone and you can take what you want and apply it to your situation.
WHAT ABOUT RONNIE??? FULL TIME COP.... If you want something bad enough you make it happen.
"Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure". ~Don Wilder and Bill Rechin
BostonIm not gonna argue with you anymore dude. You're obviously a lot smarter than me with all these degrees and certifications. And we all know that personal trainers know all the secrets. I work in a factory so i burn the shit out of calories 8-10 hours a day. I wish i was a cop and got to cruise around in a car all day. I take the postion: 98% of us cant and dont train a group 3x/week because the results would be less than satisfactory. If you destroy your chest, train it to failure on every set or close to it, then you arent ready to go again with the same intesity in 2 freakin days. Again, im done here. I just hope some of the mods and really experienced guys here see this thread. I'm confident that they will strongly disagree with you.
Theres nothing to argue here as what one person does is not the same as the other. Im just backing my claim as to someone telling me this does NOT work and to NEVER do this that EVERYONE knows this. Thats bull. I was purely introducing another modality that i have used plenty of times with proven results and there are plenty of scientific knowledge that backs me up, not someone saying oh well so and so doesnt do it.
BostonFair enough brother.
Good debate, been a long time since i had to chance to argue without getting a slap to the face and missing sex for the night/week.