Thoughts on a longer first cycle. 16 weeks of 600 mg /w test e
I'm ready to start my first cycle and I'm considering extending from the norm. It seems pretty standard to run test e at 500 mg/w for 12 weeks, but I think that's pretty conservative. I have 10000 mg of test e, arimidex, letro, nolva, clomid, and hcg so here's what I'm thinking:
1-16 2x 300 mg/w test e (mondays and thursdays)
1-16 .25 mg eod arimidex
10-18 500 mg/w hcg
18-22 either 100/100/50/50 clomid OR 40/40/20/20 nolva OR 100/100/50/50 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva
I know this is still not a heavy cycle, but I'm wondering what people think. How much harder am I going to be shutdown running for 16 instead of 12? Which pct should I run?
I'm also running down some HGH, and I'll probably add that in if I can find some at a decent price. Looking at 6-12 months on 5d on / 2d off at whatever iu doesn't give me bad sides.
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Stats wise, I think I'm good.
5'10", 27 years old, lifting for 1.5 years consistently (4-5 times/week), but I wrestled and things when I was younger so the base is pretty good. I'm currently 225 lbs at 22% bf (high I know, but I'm ok with it given I watch more closely for estrogen related issues).
Without getting too detailed in my personal life, I had a knee injury seven years ago that basically shut down my competitive sports and I gained a bunch of weight. I've got the weight down and have focused on the lifting as it's something I can do with a bad knee, but my legs are not as developed as my upper body. I'm doing 600x12 reps on the leg press without issues, but I can barely walk the next day due to the knee. Squats are a problem as instability in the knee really limits what I'm comfortable trying. Deadlifts are ok, but I'm hurting the day after. I can deadlift 300-400, but I really don't trust the knee beyond that.
Honestly, I'm excited about getting bigger and stronger, but I really look at this as an opportunity to build muscle around my knee and hopefully stabilize it some. HGH is probably going to help more with the knee (lean me out some too), but gear isn't going to hurt. Well, as long as I don't do Whinny or something.
I don't know man, I think you should work on your diet and getting down to at least 15% before you start cycling.
RustyhookerTry and review the diets/foods section. At 22% its more than just estro thats gonna be a concern. Bound testosterone, estro, bp, stroke, aneurysm etc etc.
Sgt has you correct down below.....a basic 12 week cycle will work again and again without any fancy additions.
Thanks for the advice! Where can I get more details on the risks on running a cycle at higher bf%? I'll take your advice, but I always like to do my own reading! The weight is coming off due to my diet, but the sooner I can make progress with my knee the happier I'll be.
RustyhookerReading for a couple hours will fill ya in nicely. Eact section has "stickies" on top. Reading those as well as clicking on guys name...click their forums. Tread,vike,goth,roidnoid....just read. Medical websites also have lots of info...mayo clinic, johns Hopkins etc.
Aside from stats (which you should list) I would say go 12 the first time so you know how you recover. you would be surprised but some people dont recover that quickly even after test. Try and figure out what type of time span your body takes to recover first. Just letting you know from personal experience. A few things also....There is going to come a time around week 5-7 where you are in the mind frame of, " HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THIS SHIT FEELS GREAT! WHY DO PEOPLE EVER COME OFF?!?! I THINK IM GONNA RUN THIS FOREVER!"....dont. just my 2 cc's
AnonStats stats stats stats.......
Oh yes indeed stats.....
Don't like the idea at all in principle.
sgtstedankoWhat are your stats? Training history, age, diet/nutrition, etc. It will be a bit different coming back from 16 vs 12. That, & your dose is higher than needed. Since you're special, & raised the now standard new school 5 to 600. You get put in time out : (
When I started. The norm 1st cycle was 350 BTW. Be the turtle.
On that note, how low is too low for a cycle? I based my 600 mg on this:
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full
I also figured that if I was going to get into a 3rd vial I may as well make good use of it, but that's a really stupid way to look at this. Based on the study, there were actually quite positive results from as little as 125 mg/w. Taking a 180 from by post, what about a 12 week cycle at 175 mg?
sgtstedankoWell imho, I'd think 350-400 for results. Would be as low, but still high enough to obtain results... If the important aspects of your training intensity & nutrition are on dial. Given the fact that you've only been training for a little over a year, & imo you should cut the bf a little bit. If I were you, I would start at the lower end of the spectrum, just to figure shit out. Seeing how you respond to the test, etc. 1st cycle I'd pin 1ml of your test@300 every 6 days, also bouncing 50mg proviron daily in throughout cycle. & then for your 2nd cycle, do the same, except adding a prop kickoff &/or taper, also I'd probably pin every 5 days, instead of 6. THEN, run the cycle you have planned above, w/an oral kickoff, & prop taper... All the while continue researching. But, instead of selling yourself on the merits of other people's experiences, take it slow, & find YOUR path. Personally, I've been cycling since the 90s, & still have no need to go above 600-750 : )
Follow this plan & cut bf down a bit. Seriously.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/the...
Thanks for all of the advice!
First, I like pinning less frequently, not because I'm worried about the pain or anything, but fewer pins means a lower chance of infection. Until I'm comfortable with my technique, I really like the idea of having time to see how I'm reacting to the pin. That said, I've seen the test e half life is 5-7 days, will pinning every 6 days cause big swings in test levels?
I love being the turtle! I'm on a turtle cycle right now! I enjoy the slow gain because it forces me to think..diet..diet..Diet!! If it wasn't for my oily skin I'd forget being on Test.
sgtstedankoHey witch doc! Good stuff. I am as well, honestly. No need, for more, until you need it. & on a 1st cycle, what's the point. Until you know, you don't know type of thing. I'd rather bring the intensity in my workouts, & the nutrition aspect of it. W/as little amount of compounds as possible...
I doubt running 16 weeks instead of 12 is gonna make or break you. Whatever floats your boat man, use at your own discretion.
We need stats before giving any advice. For all we know he could be a 140lb 18 year old.
That's true, my bad.