First Cycle Decisions
I'm planning on doing a cycle of AAS.
I saw a recurring theme of recommending to start with 500mg test e/ week with arimidex during cycle and HCG/Nolva or Clomid for PCT.
I was then reading the steroid forum on Bluelight.org, and saw a moderator recommending a starter cycle of 250mg test e/week with a taper for the last two weeks and no PCT.
The 250mg/week sounds preferable to me, as i would like to use as few drugs as possible and at as low of a dose as possible.
My goals for the cycle are to lean out slightly while putting on 10lbs of lean mass that will be maintainable after i come off of the gear. I currently weigh 188 at ~12% BF.
Is it safe to come off of 250mg test e/week (for 12 weeks) with no PCT?
I would appreciate any input on this. Thanks in advance!
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If you don’t pct you’ll lose that 10lbs you wanted to add plus 10lbs from going catabolic. You’re fighting yourself between leaning out and putting on muscle, and doing so you will not
Put on much muscle at all because you’re going to be afraid of eating and putting on a bit of weight. Don’t waste a cycle and fucking up your hormones on this “lean bulk” garbage...bulk then lean out...that’s how it goes
X2
Use all your natural test & all that energy of a young buck & you will continue to see gains... change things up a bit & be sure to eat some very 2-3 hours & keep your macros on something like MyFitnessPal
RustyhookerAge: 24
Height: 6'0
Weight: 190
BF:
I bet you change diet and gym and youll be up 210 .
X2
I spend ~12-15 hours a week in the gym already.
I do think i could build a bit more quickly than i am currently if i followed a stricter lean bulk diet rather than low carb caloric deficits most days with "carb loads" a couple times a week.
I see your point though about how it's unlikely i've hit my natural limit. It has just become very slow going at this point, and i'm so close to my personal ideal physique. ~10-12 lbs of lean mass would have me there, which seems likely to take years doing naturally.
RustyhookerYou could be burning off your calories which keeps you lean but slows tge mass growth.
Id post your daily macros and get the food gurus on it. Me personally, id make sure youre getting 250g of food proteins a day. Not drinks. But food. Jack your carbs up to support your output.
And honestly..... sleep/rest also helps a ton.
Yes, i'm definitely slowing mass growth by restricting calories.
I cut down from 225 to 180 recently. (180 was with dehydrated and carb depleted). Right now I'm at 186 carb depleted.
I'm focused on aesthetic more so than strength, and now that i've gotten this lean i'm reluctant to let it go. Weight has been a struggle for me throughout my life, so the idea of doing a lean bulk while injecting testosterone to grow while maintaining this BF is extremely appealing.
RustyhookerSo basically youll be the new addict on the site?
You might reconsider and stay at your build.
Don't 100% follow. I assume you mean i'll end up hooked on gear?
Why stay at my build?
RustyhookerNo need at all to stay at your stats. But no need to get hooked and stunt your possibilities. Lotta guys on here yoyo junkie and not getting anywhere near the average high school linebacker stats
Ok, thanks for your response.
I'm going to keep doing more research, and try to hit all the criterion suggested before beginning my cycle.
I'll just stash the gear in my safe for the time being.
I'm sure there are others that are better informed than I but imo, your lifting way to much.
If you are spending that kind of time in the gym, you may want to rethink what your goals are. Size? Speed? Strength?
When I trained at that volume, I was working on endurance.
For strength/size, I spend much more time eating and cooking than I do in the gym. Take it from a former endurance athlete, bodybuilding/powerlifting gains are made in the kitchen. My workouts are 30-45 minutes for bb. The amount of time you spend in the gym is the same some marathoners/iron men spend training and it isn't necessary for muscle gains.
You may want to rethink volume and focus on core lifts with low reps, high weight.
I'm probably closer to 8-10 hours a week right now, and that includes the cardio and stretching i do.
It was at 15+ hours when i was heavily focused on powerlifting and taking around 10 minute breaks in between sets for the sake of higher output each set.
And low rep, high weight... Isn't 12 reps a pretty standard BB rep range? From what i understand, if done at the right speed, this provides optimal time under tension for hypertrophy.
You may be doing to much. Up your intensity cut your set volume. Eat every two to three hours. Why risk fucking your natty levels on an amount that’s going to have little benefit. Most guys it takes years and a lot of thought even on drugs.
Wanted to add some more info.
I have been training EXTREMELY diligently for over two years straight (likely missed less than 5 workouts in these two years), and am also obsessive about proper diet.
Prior to this i had 4 years consistent in the gym that was interrupted by heroin addiction. I will have been sober a year by the time i plan on starting the cycle and prior the that brief slip (about a week) i had been sober for more than a year.
I will be getting blood work done before, during (at least twice during), and after.
The significance of manipulating my hormones is not lost on me, and i want to do it as perfectly and safely as possible.
Firstly I wanna show respect and appreciation for you overcoming your addiction. This early in your recovery I would say the last thing you need is going back to a needle, no matter what is in the barrel. I say this with love and respect for a fellow brother.
So you've got about 6 total years training, this base will be a powerful tool as you grow and develop, but there is more you can do before adding anything else. My own hormones have always been low and I was able to build a decent 230 lb physique with natty test levels of about 250 (quite low) at your height. You can do this.
Let's look at your diet and formulate a plan of attack for the next 2-3 years and reevaluate then. You do not want to start juggling your own hormones with more drugs while your brain and body are still finding equilibrium from the opiates.
You seem like a smart guy judging from your desire to start low and I'm willing to bet you go far in this endeavor. You certainly aren't alone here.
Thank you everyone for the responses, even if it wasn't what i was necessarily wanting to hear.
@Bearded_muscle, what BF% would you say you were at weighing 230lbs? That is a very strong build.
And thank you for the well wishes. I've really turned my life around, and working out was a huge help along the way.
Everyone's input is making me reconsider, but i'm not sure if i'll end up totally foregoing any sort of cycle. Unfortunately i already have a lot of test, arimidex, and clomid, so it will be hard to not use it at all.
Granted, it seems the general consensus is that i should dial in my diet more and look into potentially cutting out some volume, but for the sake of harm reduction, how safe does coming off of 250mg test e/week without PCT sound?
This is the recommended beginner cycle by Guido of bluelight's steroid forum, and he seems knowledgeable.
I guess i'm wondering if it would make sense to add in HCG to keep my testes going, or would adding HCG be more likely to just further complicate things?
I apologize if i'm coming across as obstinate. I really do appreciate the recommendations from you all, and will take the recommendations to heart. I'm sitting on a big stash of gear right now, and i don't plan on impulsively dipping in to it. I'm waiting until the first of next year to even consider starting, as i think it unwise to be on a cycle during the holidays when i will be traveling and unable to guarantee training and diet will be dialed maximized to the fullest.
Bf was anywhere from 12-15 depending on season, it's entirely doable for a natural athlete. It took a good ten years of training and diet though, and if I had to do it all over I would have done it the same. My bulking diet was probably overkill but I wanted serious size so I'd rather eat too much than not enough, it was generally 5k cals, 500 grams protein with 350 coming from whole food and about 150 coming from shakes in between meals, carbs with most meals and didn't count fats.
The gear you got won't go bad. It can sit a couple years. 250 test e will get you a little over the upper end of natural, but for a first cycle it's a great starting point. Then you'll continue to see gains as you up the dose in later cycles. I'd never recommend not running a pct. What's your reasoning there?
As someone who wants kids later I always use hcg and would recommend it if you have the same goals.
Ya, 250mg/week sounds like a good starting point. It also seems to be a good dose to see how my body handles exogenous hormones and the recovery thereafter. I really only want a little boost so i can build ~10 lbs of lean mass while maintaining low BF. I really don't want to get bigger than ~200lbs lean. My body likes the weight i'm at currently, as getting down to this weight has really alleviated a lot of my knee issues.
And the bluelight steroid moderator seemed to be saying something along the lines of running PCT on such a low dose could potentially do more harm than good, because if the body is going to recover from such a low dose, it should be able to do it on it's own, and adding in Clomid or Nolva could lead to further suppression. I may be butchering his explanation a bit, but it is obvious the guy has put a lot of research into this stuff.
I didn't understand why you wouldn't want to play it safe and still use HCG though.
I REALLY appreciate these responses, man. You guys are at least causing me to slow down my foray into this.