my mother went thru being anemic from a condition. She's kind of bs'er. so I wasn't sure if she was
pulling a fast one, or it was for real.. Well it was for real. She was a mess. We had to put her into the
hospital for a couple of days and they gave her 2/3 pints of whole blood (i think) to fix it.
Made a HUGE difference..Being anemic is no joke.When she came home I did some research and got her on Gatorade / Aloevera juice, Pedialite, and green tea, worked wonders..Her RBC was about 1/2 of what it should have been.
Hey guys, just wanted to give a little update, still feeling like crap but I know why and I will be feeling better in a few months!
I was severly anemic because of the internal bleeding from my GI issues,
and ... I was diagnosed with..
Hypothyroid, my TSH was almost 10.
Congrats on the diagnosis and hopeful road to complete recovery. This has been a great thread. I'm glad you heeded some of the recommendations of the more sage advise given. I gotta tell you, I lmfao at Vitamin V's rebuttal to the first suggestion given… Thankfully you didn't proceed down that path, coulda been a train wreck. Best of luck!
Well guys, got some labwork done... looks like I have several issues going on.
Testosterone 241.0 - 827 ng/dL 719.2
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 17.3 - 65.8 nmol/L 16.8 <---Dialed these numbers in pretty good.
\Hemoglobin 14.0 - 18.0 g/dL 13.7
Hematocrit 40.0 - 52.0 % 43.7
RBC Count 4.60 - 6.10 g/dL 5.98
MCV 80.0 - 98.0 fL 73.1
MCH 27.5 - 33.0 pg 22.9
MCHC 31.0 - 36.0 g/dL 31.4
RDW 11.50 - 16.0 % 18.50
Platelets 150.00 - 450 K/uL 284.00
MPV 8.0 - 13.0 fL 9.7
WBC 4.50 - 10.80 K/uL 6.00
Neutrophils 37.0 - 80.0 % 30.9 <----Lots of bad values out of range. I'm reading that low
Lymphocytes 20.0 - 45.0 % 51.3 Neutorophilis and High Lymphocytes is a possible sign
Monocytes 1.0 - 13.0 % 10.8 Leukemia, feels bad man. Doctor won't answer my calls..
Eosinophils 0 - 6 % 6
Basophils 0 - 2 % 1
Thyrotropin (TSH) 0.35 - 4.00 uIU/L 5.87 <------- Looks like I have hypothyroid for sure... that would explain why I sleep so much. Losing hair, depressed, my calves are sore when I wake up, etc.
I would be careful about just automatically thinking you have hypothyroidism. You look to have good t3 and t4 numbers on the other blood work. Were these test down by your doctor or did you just get them at a lab? When I was a teenager back in high school I was misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism by my GP. Was just a kid so assumed the Doc knew everything and was like sure I will take a pill everyday. So after about 2 months of t4 replacement I knew something wasn't right. Couldn't sleep and hunger was absurd, I would never get satisfied just would run out of room to put food. I (still being a dumb kid) just said screw the T4 and stopped taking it. Later down the road had bloodwork down and everything was fine. Got a new GP and have had him my adult life and with talking to him it is easy to get a false reading on thyroid hormones from simple OTC meds and even viral infections that don't manifest themselves.
So in short talk to the docs and tell them EVERYTHING you possibly can. And don't just accept a GP's answer, if you have bad thyroid numbers go see a endocrinologist. And please don't self diagnose and medicate even Doctors don't do that.
Reduces SHBG:
Insulin (and insulin resistance)
Testosterone
Growth Hormone
DHEA
Other Androgens
Obesity
Hypothyroidism
Excessive Cortisol (Cushing's Syndrome or Disease)
Progestins (such as by blocking progesterone's effects)
The primary purpose of a binding protein such as SHBG is to prolong the life of testosterone in the body. Otherwise, with a half-life of 10-100 minutes - testosterone would be almost totally eliminated from the body within 50 minutes to 8.3 hours without constant production or frequent application of testosterone.
The quickest way to increase SHBG is to treat a person with T3 (Cytomel) or to a lesser extent Armour Thyroid, when optimizing thyroid hormone signaling. This increases SHBG production from the liver. Optimizing thyroid signaling first is important to set the stage for subsequent testosterone treatment. Doing so helps correct low SHBG.
Low SHBG is one of many reasons testosterone levels are so low in diabetes type 2. When SHBG is low due to insulin resistance/diabetes type 2 and high insulin level, treatment with testosterone helps reduce insulin resistance. Over several months time, SHBG self-corrects as other metabolic improvements with testosterone treatment occur such as loss of belly fat. Of course, in the presence of diabetes type 2, one of the first things to do is to optimize thyroid hormone and treat the insulin resistance with medications such as Metformin or Actos. This would help improve SHBG and would set the stage for testosterone treatment, minimizing problems that can occur with testosterone treatment - such as anxiety, irritability, fatigue, excessive estrogen, etc.
Low SHBG also occurs in inflammatory diseases (such as rheumatoid arthritis, etc.) - where Interleukin 1 beta reduces SHBG production. I generally assess for the presence of immune system problems since they are often at the root of mood disorders. Reducing pro-inflammatory signaling would help correct their role in reducing SHBG.
SHBG is important but usually it is self-corrected by addressing more important problems - such as hypothyroidism, diabetes, chronic inflammatory illness - prior to testosterone replacement.
When it does become a significant problem is when it is too high - such as with high dose T3 treatment in cases of peripheral thyroid resistance. When SHBG is high, a normal 100 mg a week dose of testosterone cypionate can achieve blood levels past 1500 ng/mL. A concern at that level when coupled with high SHBG is that the lower free testosterone levels may become a significant factor in reducing the effects of testosterone. SHBG bound to testosterone does have signaling function on its own - what it does is unclear - but it is interesting to speculate that if the testosterone-bound SHBG signal is too high, perhaps it may inhibit libido.
You're forgetting that test thats injected has Esters. Those particles will not be used til the Esters are cleaved....thus nullifying the above worries. Whole reason we use long Esters or short Esters and folliw propet pinning procedures surrounded by half life etc
I thought the same thing about esters, still don't understand. But, it seems like we are both missing something, because the doctors are recommending EOD SubQ Injections for LOW SHBG and it seems to be working for a lot of patients.
1: Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.Links
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
haha yah im desperate. I will report back in a few days.
It's looking more like the inflammation in your intestines from chrons. But if you get on the anti inflammatory corticosteroids for your chrons, you'll develop Cushing's syndrome over time. I wouldn't think T3 or T4 would be permanent cure. But damn bro, sorry to say that the testosterone can't be helping at all with this. Find the best pct for your needs and stabilize. Work close with your specialist and tell him everything your taking so they'll know how to treat you correctly. I see your diet becoming a major role in your recovery.
Just got back from the DR... he didn't even know what Sex Hormone Binding Globulin was and its effect on hormones..the guy was clueless...
He also wouldn't let me get the bloodwork I wanted to.. (insuling, reverse T3, etc)...
But he referred to a specialist to go see in a couple of weeks..
needless to say he wouldn't even prescribe me the PoWeR PCT meds I needed after I explained to him how it would be helpful.. he things that coming off after a year I should be fine in a few weeks...
The first thing that popped in my head from your symptoms was high prolactin. I thought nothing of prolactin untill I cycled deca and tren. In no way am I trying to diagnose you, but it wouldn't hurt to bring it up to your specialist. Doctors usuall think there are two types of steroids. Corticosteroids and anabolic androgenic steroids. 19- nors are a whole other ball game sometimes in recovery. Also an under active thyroid will cause high prolactin. I think it's called hypothyroidism
Sorry guys, I did not mean to neglect this page. I had my bloodwork done
Test Name Result Flag Reference Range Lab
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 89 65-99 mg/dL BN
BUN 8 6-20 mg/dL BN
Creatinine, Serum 1.38 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL BN
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 72 >59 mL/min/1.73 BN
eGFR If Africn Am 83 >59 mL/min/1.73 BN
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 6 LOW 8-19 BN
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L BN
Potassium, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.2 mmol/L BN
Chloride, Serum 96 LOW 97-108 mmol/L BN
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 19-28 mmol/L BN
Calcium, Serum 9.9 8.7-10.2 mg/dL BN
Protein, Total, Serum 7.4 6.0-8.5 g/dL BN
Albumin, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL BN
Globulin, Total 2.9 1.5-4.5 g/dL BN
A/G Ratio 1.6 1.1-2.5 BN
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL BN
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 97 39-117 IU/L BN
AST (SGOT) 33 0-40 IU/L BN
ALT (SGPT) 23 0-44 IU/L BN
Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 1497.9 HIGH 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL BN
Free Testosterone(Direct) 44.0 HIGH 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN
TSH
TSH 2.790 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL BN
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL BN
FSH, Serum
FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL BN
Estradiol
Estradiol 11.3 7.6-42.6 pg/mL BN
Roche ECLIA methodology
Thyroxine (T4)
Thyroxine (T4) 6.7 4.5-12.0 ug/dL BN
Triiodothyronine (T3)
Triiodothyronine (T3) 105 71-180 ng/dL BN
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.8 2.0-4.4 pg/mL BN
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 11.7 LOW 16.5-55.9 nmol/L BN
Based on lots of research I believe its one of two things.
1) Low SHBG effecting the amount of free Hormone in my body as well as the volatiliy and metabolism of those hormones. Google searching LOW SHBG and TRT will show tons of problems with people on TRT not working because of the LOW SHBG. Since, there is no safe way of increasing it, I have been injecting Sub Q EOD, to help stabilize those levels. Not sure if it is working yet.. just started sunday.
2)Some underlying autoimmune disorder. Last year in Feb I was prescirbed Aldara cream for a mild case of HPV after sleeping with some closet slut. I have read how it alters the immune system to fight the warts. It makes sense since after that is when I started to have all these problems. A few months later I was diagnosed with Chron's disease, ETC. ETC.
HypoThyroid, adrenal fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome or possibilities as well.
I am going to the doctor in an hour to request a specialist and requesting blood work be done for,
Insulin resistance (for lowSHBG)
All the thyroid levels (TBG, Reverse T3, Free T3 and T4, ETC)
All autoimmune tests,
Glucose tests,
and hormone panel once again.
Feel Free to Chime in! This to, will pass. Either way I plan to do the PoWeR PCT program starting on Jan 1st...
Sbgh....we take provi or winny to LOWER binfing globulin so theres MORE free test. So ive not read about trt and low bound hormone as a negative. Many reports showed that bound test results in less useable test in system and thus gives the feelings of low test.
Chrones.....brings up dietary questions. Your system is amplified on steroids. Youll need greater calories to keep up with growth. If your system isnt digesting properly then youre lacking in nutrients. That alone could cause those issues.
Your health....basically if I were you id talk to your endo dr and get compketely off roids. Youre battling chrones, hypothyroid, hpv, etc etc etc.. Somethings gotta give.
Your health....basically if I were you id talk to your endo dr and get compketely off roids. Youre battling chrones, hypothyroid, hpv, etc etc etc.. Somethings gotta give.
Best advice any eroids member could ever give ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +3 bother rusty, this OP has way too many other medical issues going on to enable ANYONE here to give AAS advice without a massive risk factor attatched.
If you are going to run the power pct then look into Toremifene. It raises LH 5x more than nolvadex. But since everything is optimum except LH FSH and SBGH it may be your estradiol E2 levels jacking everything up. Even though it shows estradiol on the lower end of optimum, your could have excess prolactin issues you might wanna bring up to your doc. It would not hurt to supplement some vitamins. 1000ius vitamin E, 200 mgs p-5-p (active form of b6) found at vitamin stores, and zinc or better yet ZMA. I have a friend with a auto immune hepatitus, her liver was about 2 months from failing, her doctors had her on anti nausea meds and a ton of pain pills preparing her for death. I suggested a liver friendly diet plan, liv52 with milk thistle and she called me the other day saying that she was "cured". Liver enzymes at optimum, and it was actually repairing damage. So don't underestimate natural remedies. I wish you the best of luck on your test and keep posted.
What's the power pct plan? Rustyhooker, would high prolactin from not running caber/pramipex on deca, mess him up long term with his E2? Another thing for consideration that I read up on was Triptorelin (GnRH) aka (luteinizing releasing hormone) has been used by doctors to bring LH and FSH back optimum but I'm not sure if it touches SHBG. But it's been used to treat bodybuilders that have cycled long term and were not responding to clomid or nolvadex, or from using too much HCG. DO NOT ADMINISTER this yourself. Getting the dose right is VERY important. 400mcg (4 vials) a month for months on end is used for chemical castration. 100mcg (1 vial) in one shot after steroids have stopped has been used alone for pct. Ask your doctor if he's heard about Triptorelin. This is just what I would do. But on the other hand, I know absolutely nothing about HPV or chrons, so good luck brother. Leave this up to your doctor. Hopefully he knows what he's doing in this case, or he can refer you to someone who specializes in this.
You already have really high test levels being 23, now you introduced more test, but not as much as your body was producing before you began your cycle. so your body stop produce test, and so you replace the high levels of test with lower levers. your in a test deficiency and need to increase the amount of test your running, your at 300mgs a week now, up it to 500mg weekly and you should see a positive change with the next couple weeks.... if your taking around 50mg of dbol daily it can affect you mentally in a negitive way... because when i get around the 50mg mark.... im rageing like an animal, im jumping out of my car in mid traffic and trying to beat some ass, i find my grip on the steering wheel is so tight my hands cramp hand hurt.... i always feel like, don't fucking talk to me, im not at the gym so im not happy....
My advice is to discuss this with your PCP. Get a full lab work up including thyroid, blood count, hormones, electrolytes. It's quite possible it is just what it seems, Depression. Many people with depression have no reason to be depressed, but after a thorough medical work up if nothing else is found then you have to entertain the thought of and treatment of depression either with therapy or medications. Hope you feel better soon. Keep us posted.
I have been wanting to tell this story for a while and feel as though It may help. I have felt this way before while on cycle. Cycle started out fine with test-e 500mg/w and anadrol 50 mg/ed first two weeks I felt great i suspect it was mostly the anadrol Around week 3 I started getting a real puffy felling in my nips and didn't have anything to combat it on hand so I stopped taking the anadrol at around day 20 instead of 30 but kept taking the test as planned. I had done this in previous cycles and had no problems, however, this time I felt the exact way you described. Within 1 or 2 days of not having any anadrol i felt very lethargic and wanted to just be in bed and alone. I suspected my test to be bunk or under dosed. So I took the rest of the anadrol and felt pretty good aside from a real puffy felling in my nips but I didn't have enough to last until i could get my hands on another batch of test. After I ran out of anadrol again I ended up feeling like shit for a few days while I waited to get a new bottle of test. Got the test in immediately pinned and felt amazing within a few moments. went to the gym and had a great workout. I do not know if my body's response to the test was typical but within moments of having the new test in me I felt like a million bucks. I ended up using what must have been either under dosed or bunk gear. Moral of the story is be prepared and have everything you will need on hand. If you find a supplier you trust keep using them.
Yup, anadrol will do that. I've heard of people using an anvar taper down protocal. If you start with low test in the beginning, once you drop the anadrol you could up the test to what you initially planned to take. Like from 300mgs a week to 600mgs a week. I've done this and only had a day or two of dragging ass.
You could have excess prolactin from the deca. In that case you'd need pramipex or cabergoline. Don't you need anti inflammatory cortocosteroids for your chrons? That's a serious disease that a change in diet couldnt completely fix bro.
I have thyroid problems bro - if you have them as well, they need to be dealt with ASAP. They can certainly lead to a lot of the symptoms you are experiencing and a simple blood test will reveal if you have that problem.
But anyways, on the topic of your depression and lethargy, IMO it could be that your gear is bunk or underdosed. But that shouldn't be your first priority. You may have an underlying illness like you said. Now dont jump down my throat on this. I'm only stating possible reasons why this could be happening. I have read forums about guys getting messed up from deca.
hmm, so all the drs in the world must be killing millions of people around the world daily by prescribing anti depressants to people with depression?? learn something new everyday
Doctors get paid more from the pharmaceutical companies than their yearly salary for being a doctor. Just say the company that makes Prozac offered more $ than the company that makes Zoloft. The doctor now has an obligation to push Prozac on his/her patients. And sadly, even if the doctor knew zoloft would be the better choice due to lower side effects, what do you think the prescription paper will be written out for? It's tested and proven that most antidepressants can cause suicidal behavior. And that's not to mention coming off the crap
Doctors get paid more from the pharmaceutical companies than their yearly salary for being a doctor
This is the biggest most ignorant statement I've read on here.. Dr's do not get kick backs from pharmaceutical companies!! It's not even legal to get a free pen anymore. Don't bother arguing with me on this one.. Trust me I know more then you about this!
maybe get some anti depressants mate, yes the juice may be causing side effects, but sounds like mental illness, wich is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, im mentally ill mate, ive been on and off meds since my late teens, I know what your saying, and not wanting to live, im the same sometimes- I always say if I could go back to my mothers stomach and there was and on off switch, I would switch it off twice, but we don't get that choice!!! if you cant do it for your self do it for family, friends misses etc, you will be rite mate, but imo you should come off the gear, it will be hard especially taking nolva and clomid, but its better for the long term and short term actually, go see a dr and expain everything. good luck
Hmm deca... well deca the suppresses your thyroid plus elevate prolactin.. which supressed natty test and results in a bonus of elevated estro so yeah all of that can give you these symptoms.. Before you go any further it would be in your best interest to run blood tests.. include those values in your test.. once you figure out what's up it is very likely you'll need something for prolactin like prami or caber along with a serious pct.. I'd shoot for pharma grade at this point
Try running 250 twice a week.. the boys are probably shut down pretty good. I had same problem I started hcg and aromasin my estrogen was pretty high. Feel a lot better. Your estrogen could be to low hard to tell without blood work.
my mother went thru being anemic from a condition. She's kind of bs'er. so I wasn't sure if she was
pulling a fast one, or it was for real.. Well it was for real. She was a mess. We had to put her into the
hospital for a couple of days and they gave her 2/3 pints of whole blood (i think) to fix it.
Made a HUGE difference..Being anemic is no joke.When she came home I did some research and got her on Gatorade / Aloevera juice, Pedialite, and green tea, worked wonders..Her RBC was about 1/2 of what it should have been.
Hey guys, just wanted to give a little update, still feeling like crap but I know why and I will be feeling better in a few months!
I was severly anemic because of the internal bleeding from my GI issues,
and ... I was diagnosed with..
Hypothyroid, my TSH was almost 10.
Congrats on the diagnosis and hopeful road to complete recovery. This has been a great thread. I'm glad you heeded some of the recommendations of the more sage advise given. I gotta tell you, I lmfao at Vitamin V's rebuttal to the first suggestion given… Thankfully you didn't proceed down that path, coulda been a train wreck. Best of luck!
glad to hear youre gonna make it!
Update:
Just got this result in..
Prolactin 2.1 - 17.1 ng/mL 14.9
Doctor said he will call me with referall to see an Endo in the next week or two....
TICK..TOCK... :/ Still TIRED AS HELL all day. Wake up, legs sore. Losing hair and overall feeling of Depression.
Well guys, got some labwork done... looks like I have several issues going on.
Testosterone 241.0 - 827 ng/dL 719.2
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 17.3 - 65.8 nmol/L 16.8 <---Dialed these numbers in pretty good.
\Hemoglobin 14.0 - 18.0 g/dL 13.7
Hematocrit 40.0 - 52.0 % 43.7
RBC Count 4.60 - 6.10 g/dL 5.98
MCV 80.0 - 98.0 fL 73.1
MCH 27.5 - 33.0 pg 22.9
MCHC 31.0 - 36.0 g/dL 31.4
RDW 11.50 - 16.0 % 18.50
Platelets 150.00 - 450 K/uL 284.00
MPV 8.0 - 13.0 fL 9.7
WBC 4.50 - 10.80 K/uL 6.00
Neutrophils 37.0 - 80.0 % 30.9 <----Lots of bad values out of range. I'm reading that low
Lymphocytes 20.0 - 45.0 % 51.3 Neutorophilis and High Lymphocytes is a possible sign
Monocytes 1.0 - 13.0 % 10.8 Leukemia, feels bad man. Doctor won't answer my calls..
Eosinophils 0 - 6 % 6
Basophils 0 - 2 % 1
Thyrotropin (TSH) 0.35 - 4.00 uIU/L 5.87 <------- Looks like I have hypothyroid for sure... that would explain why I sleep so much. Losing hair, depressed, my calves are sore when I wake up, etc.
I would be careful about just automatically thinking you have hypothyroidism. You look to have good t3 and t4 numbers on the other blood work. Were these test down by your doctor or did you just get them at a lab? When I was a teenager back in high school I was misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism by my GP. Was just a kid so assumed the Doc knew everything and was like sure I will take a pill everyday. So after about 2 months of t4 replacement I knew something wasn't right. Couldn't sleep and hunger was absurd, I would never get satisfied just would run out of room to put food. I (still being a dumb kid) just said screw the T4 and stopped taking it. Later down the road had bloodwork down and everything was fine. Got a new GP and have had him my adult life and with talking to him it is easy to get a false reading on thyroid hormones from simple OTC meds and even viral infections that don't manifest themselves.
So in short talk to the docs and tell them EVERYTHING you possibly can. And don't just accept a GP's answer, if you have bad thyroid numbers go see a endocrinologist. And please don't self diagnose and medicate even Doctors don't do that.
This if from http://www.swolesource.com/forum/mens-health-ancillary-medication/10-trt... post 13.. all the posts are a GREAT read..
reading the part where inflamotory diseases(like my stomach condition) lowers SHBG is interesting.. thoughts?
Bit more about: SHBG
SHGB (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin):
Let's look at what influences SHBG:
Increases SHBG:
Estrogens (particularly Estradiol)
Progesterone (by increasing Estrogen receptors)
Thyroid Hormone (particularly Hyperthyroidism)
Liver Disease
Anorexia, Starvation
Hypoglycemia (low insulin)
Reduces SHBG:
Insulin (and insulin resistance)
Testosterone
Growth Hormone
DHEA
Other Androgens
Obesity
Hypothyroidism
Excessive Cortisol (Cushing's Syndrome or Disease)
Progestins (such as by blocking progesterone's effects)
The primary purpose of a binding protein such as SHBG is to prolong the life of testosterone in the body. Otherwise, with a half-life of 10-100 minutes - testosterone would be almost totally eliminated from the body within 50 minutes to 8.3 hours without constant production or frequent application of testosterone.
The quickest way to increase SHBG is to treat a person with T3 (Cytomel) or to a lesser extent Armour Thyroid, when optimizing thyroid hormone signaling. This increases SHBG production from the liver. Optimizing thyroid signaling first is important to set the stage for subsequent testosterone treatment. Doing so helps correct low SHBG.
Low SHBG is one of many reasons testosterone levels are so low in diabetes type 2. When SHBG is low due to insulin resistance/diabetes type 2 and high insulin level, treatment with testosterone helps reduce insulin resistance. Over several months time, SHBG self-corrects as other metabolic improvements with testosterone treatment occur such as loss of belly fat. Of course, in the presence of diabetes type 2, one of the first things to do is to optimize thyroid hormone and treat the insulin resistance with medications such as Metformin or Actos. This would help improve SHBG and would set the stage for testosterone treatment, minimizing problems that can occur with testosterone treatment - such as anxiety, irritability, fatigue, excessive estrogen, etc.
Low SHBG also occurs in inflammatory diseases (such as rheumatoid arthritis, etc.) - where Interleukin 1 beta reduces SHBG production. I generally assess for the presence of immune system problems since they are often at the root of mood disorders. Reducing pro-inflammatory signaling would help correct their role in reducing SHBG.
SHBG is important but usually it is self-corrected by addressing more important problems - such as hypothyroidism, diabetes, chronic inflammatory illness - prior to testosterone replacement.
When it does become a significant problem is when it is too high - such as with high dose T3 treatment in cases of peripheral thyroid resistance. When SHBG is high, a normal 100 mg a week dose of testosterone cypionate can achieve blood levels past 1500 ng/mL. A concern at that level when coupled with high SHBG is that the lower free testosterone levels may become a significant factor in reducing the effects of testosterone. SHBG bound to testosterone does have signaling function on its own - what it does is unclear - but it is interesting to speculate that if the testosterone-bound SHBG signal is too high, perhaps it may inhibit libido.
RustyhookerYou're forgetting that test thats injected has Esters. Those particles will not be used til the Esters are cleaved....thus nullifying the above worries. Whole reason we use long Esters or short Esters and folliw propet pinning procedures surrounded by half life etc
http://thinksteroids.com/forum/mens-health-forum/testosterone-replacemen...
check out post #26
I thought the same thing about esters, still don't understand. But, it seems like we are both missing something, because the doctors are recommending EOD SubQ Injections for LOW SHBG and it seems to be working for a lot of patients.
RustyhookerNot once have i ever hear of endo Dr advise eod sub q injections. Never. Never ever.
Grasping for straws bud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LOFQwUGA
1: Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.Links
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
haha yah im desperate. I will report back in a few days.
It's looking more like the inflammation in your intestines from chrons. But if you get on the anti inflammatory corticosteroids for your chrons, you'll develop Cushing's syndrome over time. I wouldn't think T3 or T4 would be permanent cure. But damn bro, sorry to say that the testosterone can't be helping at all with this. Find the best pct for your needs and stabilize. Work close with your specialist and tell him everything your taking so they'll know how to treat you correctly. I see your diet becoming a major role in your recovery.
Just got back from the DR... he didn't even know what Sex Hormone Binding Globulin was and its effect on hormones..the guy was clueless...
He also wouldn't let me get the bloodwork I wanted to.. (insuling, reverse T3, etc)...
But he referred to a specialist to go see in a couple of weeks..
needless to say he wouldn't even prescribe me the PoWeR PCT meds I needed after I explained to him how it would be helpful.. he things that coming off after a year I should be fine in a few weeks...
needless to say im very frustrated..
RustyhookerRegular Dr wont know. Find your pct and stary recovery. Work with the specialist to get your system straight.
yup... will order soon
The first thing that popped in my head from your symptoms was high prolactin. I thought nothing of prolactin untill I cycled deca and tren. In no way am I trying to diagnose you, but it wouldn't hurt to bring it up to your specialist. Doctors usuall think there are two types of steroids. Corticosteroids and anabolic androgenic steroids. 19- nors are a whole other ball game sometimes in recovery. Also an under active thyroid will cause high prolactin. I think it's called hypothyroidism
Sorry guys, I did not mean to neglect this page. I had my bloodwork done
Test Name Result Flag Reference Range Lab
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 89 65-99 mg/dL BN
BUN 8 6-20 mg/dL BN
Creatinine, Serum 1.38 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL BN
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 72 >59 mL/min/1.73 BN
eGFR If Africn Am 83 >59 mL/min/1.73 BN
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 6 LOW 8-19 BN
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L BN
Potassium, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.2 mmol/L BN
Chloride, Serum 96 LOW 97-108 mmol/L BN
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 19-28 mmol/L BN
Calcium, Serum 9.9 8.7-10.2 mg/dL BN
Protein, Total, Serum 7.4 6.0-8.5 g/dL BN
Albumin, Serum 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL BN
Globulin, Total 2.9 1.5-4.5 g/dL BN
A/G Ratio 1.6 1.1-2.5 BN
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL BN
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 97 39-117 IU/L BN
AST (SGOT) 33 0-40 IU/L BN
ALT (SGPT) 23 0-44 IU/L BN
Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 1497.9 HIGH 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL BN
Free Testosterone(Direct) 44.0 HIGH 9.3-26.5 pg/mL BN
TSH
TSH 2.790 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL BN
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL BN
FSH, Serum
FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL BN
Estradiol
Estradiol 11.3 7.6-42.6 pg/mL BN
Roche ECLIA methodology
Thyroxine (T4)
Thyroxine (T4) 6.7 4.5-12.0 ug/dL BN
Triiodothyronine (T3)
Triiodothyronine (T3) 105 71-180 ng/dL BN
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.8 2.0-4.4 pg/mL BN
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 11.7 LOW 16.5-55.9 nmol/L BN
Based on lots of research I believe its one of two things.
1) Low SHBG effecting the amount of free Hormone in my body as well as the volatiliy and metabolism of those hormones. Google searching LOW SHBG and TRT will show tons of problems with people on TRT not working because of the LOW SHBG. Since, there is no safe way of increasing it, I have been injecting Sub Q EOD, to help stabilize those levels. Not sure if it is working yet.. just started sunday.
2)Some underlying autoimmune disorder. Last year in Feb I was prescirbed Aldara cream for a mild case of HPV after sleeping with some closet slut. I have read how it alters the immune system to fight the warts. It makes sense since after that is when I started to have all these problems. A few months later I was diagnosed with Chron's disease, ETC. ETC.
HypoThyroid, adrenal fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome or possibilities as well.
I am going to the doctor in an hour to request a specialist and requesting blood work be done for,
Insulin resistance (for lowSHBG)
All the thyroid levels (TBG, Reverse T3, Free T3 and T4, ETC)
All autoimmune tests,
Glucose tests,
and hormone panel once again.
Feel Free to Chime in! This to, will pass. Either way I plan to do the PoWeR PCT program starting on Jan 1st...
RustyhookerTesting your thyroid etc is the best next step.
Sbgh....we take provi or winny to LOWER binfing globulin so theres MORE free test. So ive not read about trt and low bound hormone as a negative. Many reports showed that bound test results in less useable test in system and thus gives the feelings of low test.
Chrones.....brings up dietary questions. Your system is amplified on steroids. Youll need greater calories to keep up with growth. If your system isnt digesting properly then youre lacking in nutrients. That alone could cause those issues.
Your health....basically if I were you id talk to your endo dr and get compketely off roids. Youre battling chrones, hypothyroid, hpv, etc etc etc.. Somethings gotta give.
i agree about coming off, trying for pharmacy grade pct meds, if doesnt work I will buy online.
if you have some time read up on Dr. Marciano's post on low shbg amd trt.
im on my phone and cant post a link.
RustyhookerI havent read it but would love to see his findings.
Best advice any eroids member could ever give ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +3 bother rusty, this OP has way too many other medical issues going on to enable ANYONE here to give AAS advice without a massive risk factor attatched.
RustyhookerWish it was as simple as the run of the mill imbalance going on :(
If you are going to run the power pct then look into Toremifene. It raises LH 5x more than nolvadex. But since everything is optimum except LH FSH and SBGH it may be your estradiol E2 levels jacking everything up. Even though it shows estradiol on the lower end of optimum, your could have excess prolactin issues you might wanna bring up to your doc. It would not hurt to supplement some vitamins. 1000ius vitamin E, 200 mgs p-5-p (active form of b6) found at vitamin stores, and zinc or better yet ZMA. I have a friend with a auto immune hepatitus, her liver was about 2 months from failing, her doctors had her on anti nausea meds and a ton of pain pills preparing her for death. I suggested a liver friendly diet plan, liv52 with milk thistle and she called me the other day saying that she was "cured". Liver enzymes at optimum, and it was actually repairing damage. So don't underestimate natural remedies. I wish you the best of luck on your test and keep posted.
What's the power pct plan? Rustyhooker, would high prolactin from not running caber/pramipex on deca, mess him up long term with his E2? Another thing for consideration that I read up on was Triptorelin (GnRH) aka (luteinizing releasing hormone) has been used by doctors to bring LH and FSH back optimum but I'm not sure if it touches SHBG. But it's been used to treat bodybuilders that have cycled long term and were not responding to clomid or nolvadex, or from using too much HCG. DO NOT ADMINISTER this yourself. Getting the dose right is VERY important. 400mcg (4 vials) a month for months on end is used for chemical castration. 100mcg (1 vial) in one shot after steroids have stopped has been used alone for pct. Ask your doctor if he's heard about Triptorelin. This is just what I would do. But on the other hand, I know absolutely nothing about HPV or chrons, so good luck brother. Leave this up to your doctor. Hopefully he knows what he's doing in this case, or he can refer you to someone who specializes in this.
eryximachusThere are no studies about Triptorelin. There is one anecdote of it being used in Italy for ONE person. No other research, no followup, nothing.
The overall consensus on the boards is disappointment.
Danny BoyYou already have really high test levels being 23, now you introduced more test, but not as much as your body was producing before you began your cycle. so your body stop produce test, and so you replace the high levels of test with lower levers. your in a test deficiency and need to increase the amount of test your running, your at 300mgs a week now, up it to 500mg weekly and you should see a positive change with the next couple weeks.... if your taking around 50mg of dbol daily it can affect you mentally in a negitive way... because when i get around the 50mg mark.... im rageing like an animal, im jumping out of my car in mid traffic and trying to beat some ass, i find my grip on the steering wheel is so tight my hands cramp hand hurt.... i always feel like, don't fucking talk to me, im not at the gym so im not happy....
NOT GOOD ADVICE............ Do NOT let me catch you spitting shit like this out ever again on my board son..... first and last warning.
RustyhookerEver read up on estrogen/estradiol? Font come on here posting bad advice when you're not even running correct.
My advice is to discuss this with your PCP. Get a full lab work up including thyroid, blood count, hormones, electrolytes. It's quite possible it is just what it seems, Depression. Many people with depression have no reason to be depressed, but after a thorough medical work up if nothing else is found then you have to entertain the thought of and treatment of depression either with therapy or medications. Hope you feel better soon. Keep us posted.
I have been wanting to tell this story for a while and feel as though It may help. I have felt this way before while on cycle. Cycle started out fine with test-e 500mg/w and anadrol 50 mg/ed first two weeks I felt great i suspect it was mostly the anadrol Around week 3 I started getting a real puffy felling in my nips and didn't have anything to combat it on hand so I stopped taking the anadrol at around day 20 instead of 30 but kept taking the test as planned. I had done this in previous cycles and had no problems, however, this time I felt the exact way you described. Within 1 or 2 days of not having any anadrol i felt very lethargic and wanted to just be in bed and alone. I suspected my test to be bunk or under dosed. So I took the rest of the anadrol and felt pretty good aside from a real puffy felling in my nips but I didn't have enough to last until i could get my hands on another batch of test. After I ran out of anadrol again I ended up feeling like shit for a few days while I waited to get a new bottle of test. Got the test in immediately pinned and felt amazing within a few moments. went to the gym and had a great workout. I do not know if my body's response to the test was typical but within moments of having the new test in me I felt like a million bucks. I ended up using what must have been either under dosed or bunk gear. Moral of the story is be prepared and have everything you will need on hand. If you find a supplier you trust keep using them.
Yup, anadrol will do that. I've heard of people using an anvar taper down protocal. If you start with low test in the beginning, once you drop the anadrol you could up the test to what you initially planned to take. Like from 300mgs a week to 600mgs a week. I've done this and only had a day or two of dragging ass.
Doctor time
You could have excess prolactin from the deca. In that case you'd need pramipex or cabergoline. Don't you need anti inflammatory cortocosteroids for your chrons? That's a serious disease that a change in diet couldnt completely fix bro.
If you suspect thyroid issues, do not self diagnose or treat! Seek advice from a physician or specialist. Don't fuck yourself up unintentionally.
I have thyroid problems bro - if you have them as well, they need to be dealt with ASAP. They can certainly lead to a lot of the symptoms you are experiencing and a simple blood test will reveal if you have that problem.
How do you treat them if you don't mind me asking?
But anyways, on the topic of your depression and lethargy, IMO it could be that your gear is bunk or underdosed. But that shouldn't be your first priority. You may have an underlying illness like you said. Now dont jump down my throat on this. I'm only stating possible reasons why this could be happening. I have read forums about guys getting messed up from deca.
backonroidsFuck anti deppresants they make you worse!! I've lost a LOT of friewnds due to suicide after taking anti depresants
hmm, so all the drs in the world must be killing millions of people around the world daily by prescribing anti depressants to people with depression?? learn something new everyday
Doctors get paid more from the pharmaceutical companies than their yearly salary for being a doctor. Just say the company that makes Prozac offered more $ than the company that makes Zoloft. The doctor now has an obligation to push Prozac on his/her patients. And sadly, even if the doctor knew zoloft would be the better choice due to lower side effects, what do you think the prescription paper will be written out for? It's tested and proven that most antidepressants can cause suicidal behavior. And that's not to mention coming off the crap
This is the biggest most ignorant statement I've read on here.. Dr's do not get kick backs from pharmaceutical companies!! It's not even legal to get a free pen anymore. Don't bother arguing with me on this one.. Trust me I know more then you about this!
maybe get some anti depressants mate, yes the juice may be causing side effects, but sounds like mental illness, wich is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about, im mentally ill mate, ive been on and off meds since my late teens, I know what your saying, and not wanting to live, im the same sometimes- I always say if I could go back to my mothers stomach and there was and on off switch, I would switch it off twice, but we don't get that choice!!! if you cant do it for your self do it for family, friends misses etc, you will be rite mate, but imo you should come off the gear, it will be hard especially taking nolva and clomid, but its better for the long term and short term actually, go see a dr and expain everything. good luck
Hmm deca... well deca the suppresses your thyroid plus elevate prolactin.. which supressed natty test and results in a bonus of elevated estro so yeah all of that can give you these symptoms.. Before you go any further it would be in your best interest to run blood tests.. include those values in your test.. once you figure out what's up it is very likely you'll need something for prolactin like prami or caber along with a serious pct.. I'd shoot for pharma grade at this point
Have you had any blood tests done to see where your estrogen is? Are you running any hcg?
I plan on running getting bloodwork on monday, and I have HCG on hand but not running it!
Try running 250 twice a week.. the boys are probably shut down pretty good. I had same problem I started hcg and aromasin my estrogen was pretty high. Feel a lot better. Your estrogen could be to low hard to tell without blood work.