+ 1 Advice Needed
Looking for some advice. Figured I would ask you guys as you seem to be in the know.
Looking to possibly start first cycle. Looking to add a little size and def drop to 10% BF.
Current Stats
34 yr old
6'2"
235
18% BF
Shaved head (so hair loss is not a concern)
Lifting Experience
Lifted off and on for many years. Always stayed fairly fit. Spent the last few years grappling (competed at 205 but walked around at 215) and not really on the weights. Got back to lifting. Gained some size and strength along with some BF.
My lifts are noting to write home about.
Supp Experience
All the standard OTC supps (protein, creatine, etc.)
H-Drol
M-Drol
Furuza
Proper PCT every time. The orals work well for me, but I am tired of the sides and fear screwing up my liver. I have a nice little stash of them, so I will prob do more in the future. Maybe even use them to kickstart a test-e cycle? Prob start building a little injectable stash too. :-)
Goals
I don't really care about the number on the scale or really the numbers in the gym either (although I do like seeing progress). I want to be slightly more muscular than I am and drop to 8-10% BF.
I do not want to look like the hulk, I want lean and muscular with a little bit of size.
So I am looking for some cycle advice. Could be: Your not ready. Actual cycle advice. Length. Type. Diet. Routine. Criticism of my oral use. Whatever, I am open to it.
Thanks in advance.
Mr. Clean
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Fair enough! lol
:-)
Understood. I will do just that. I have already made progress in bringing the BF down and am in no rush.
I posted above about maybe doing an epi oral cycle and pushing the test back. Feel free to comment on that.
Hi Clean, looks like you already have tread's attention and he can definitely help you decide. There is also lots of info here. Start with the pins at the top.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles
Will do!
Tread already hit on my major concerns of being too high bf and possiblility of gyno... Great advice on front loading the AI (never read this before but makes a ton of sense) when I do hit the test and also on getting the bf under control frist.
You guys are great!
Thanks. I have seen some people recommend 10 weeks, others 12. Some recommend the AI on cycle and others say only if needed. I carry a lot of fat in my pecs. Don't thinks it is gyno or anything, just fat, but I am very wary of gettign gyno. I think the AI EOD is a for sure for me just for peace of mind.
tread-mOk you bald goofy lookin MFer! Sorry, people ask us to critisize and Ij take it too serious brother. Ok so is your bf up from the top number of 15 or are you actually wanting to drop to mid single digits for some reason? Nice first post for cycle help btw...
tread-mYeah brother I'm in line with whats been said below as well. The thing that cautions me in your statement is that bf is around chest. You don't have to be on or coming off of test to get gyno, often gyno is already present in someone who tends to carry chest fat and the tgear simply explodes the current situation. I would have aromasin and letro on hand and as M said maybe drop the bf a bit before the run here. For me in your situation I begin the aromasin at 12.5 ed for a few days (4 or 5) and then pull back to 12.5 eod and see where we go from there with bf as it is affected by diet. This gets the game rolling by cutting estrogen and causing a quicker spike in test. I would run a standard q-12 test E at about 500 and if you get the bf in control early on and drop the aromasin I bring it back in at 12.5 eod for the last two weeks of cycle to take you to pct so we know estrogen is in check as we get ready to leave cycle and then begin standard pct 2 weeks after last pin in your situation specifically I might say hit the hcg twice per week in the final 2 weeks of cycle to help prompt natty ( 4 total hits between 250 and 400 each is a good range). Diet is your goal...nothing else matters if thats not dialed in so given you are pretty good size and have the goal of single digits you have to own this diet or its not going to happen for you. If you have never been over go look at jaycutler.com on the home page click blueprints and look at the end of year diet around August and September for some ideas. Its a good spot to begin to think about where you need to be in a cut run. Bulk is still possible in the right places with heavier lifting and less reps but diet is the whole thing brother and especially with a goal as yours is laid out.
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Diet is your goal...nothing else matters if thats not dialed in so given you are pretty good size and have the goal of single digits you have to own this diet or its not going to happen for you.
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This has become my mantra EVERY DAY. Diet has been spot on for a week and I have no plans on stopping.
Also, thanks to your excellent advice I will be waiting to cycle until I have acheived my BF reduction.
Thanks!
Wow. Thank you so much for the detailed response! You guys give a lot of time and effort. Can't say thank you enough.
I am currently working on the BF and have made some progress. I am worried about the chest fat. Seems like that is always there even when I was at 205. Hell, even when I was 185 (13 years ago) it was there. However it is not hard and I never had any lumps or pain so I really don't know if it is gyno or I'm just a fatty. That is one reason I never screwed around with Dienolone. Afraid of really provoking gyno.
As much as I would love to start the test-e right away, I was thinking about maybe doing a cycle of EPI as a cutting cycle before I jumped into the test. As I am sure you know, Epi really crushes estrogen and I thought that might be a good way to cut and see if the fat deposits go away. Figure March-April for EPI and PCT and then July 1 hit the test-e if BF is under 15%. I know that everyone is down on the oral only cycles (me too) but I am comfortable with it for one more run. Do you think that would be worth it, or a waste of time?
Also, I do understand that epi, aromisn, test, etc is no replacement for proper diet. Obviously, diet is my weakness. :-) I am workign hard on that and I am sure I will see great results from that alone no matter what supps I take.
I will make sure I have the aromasin and letro on hand for sure. I always make sure I have EVERYTHING on hand and don't try to order as I go.
Never been to jaycutler.com but will check it out for sure. I spend a lot of time researching as much as I can. I will be all over that today!
Thanks again!
tread-mI like your thinking, I don't like anything other than natty weight loss getting ready for a cycle though. It would amaze you how quick this could happen. I got myself in a bad situation once as is yours now. I actually looked ok and was getting stronger and bigger etc but I let my bf climb over time just focused on the mirror. Looked good and big so I just didn't stay on that bf. So we get back from vacation one year and I saw the pics and had a hard time believing it was me. Next day started a cut and it included no fat in my diet low carbs mega calorie deficit and dropped 32 lbs. In 30 days and jumped on cycle. It can be quick or take forever brother and I'm that guy that just jumps in the cold water rather than dragging out the misery. I think if you get on diet as your new religion and increase cardio dramatically , lift lighter with longer sets especially on chest you find yourself ready to rock and roll in a month. Just jump in that cold water brother, it throws you into shock for a while but not long. I prefer aromasin in the above scenario btw over a standard AI like adex. The test if running long as to your question, will not even begin to kick for a couple weeks so the aromasin at 12.5 as laid out will have some good time to work . You are welcome to PM me if these qquestions get to be more than you want here but how is the sex drive in terms of quality etc with current bf? Its not terrible but sometimes that helps to begin to know the environment as it perains to current estrogen and shbg. Reason I also ask is I'm not opposed to working on estrogen in the proper way even outside the cycle. First and foremost I might tell you to begin drinking only water as you try to meet your goals. Water only and a lot of it...drop the coke and tea and milk...everything. much bigger help on all the things going on in your body than you may realize.
I like that "my diet as my new religion" :-)
Diet: I will cut back on carbs, cut back on fat, keep protein high. I have done that before and had the greatest fat loss of my life. Also the absolute toughest diet to stick to for me. Carbs are like crack.
Cardio: My cardio is weak. What do you advise? High intensity or Low? A lot of people say set the treadmill on highest incline and 2-2.5 in speed and go for 45min every morning before eating. Any good?
Chest Lifting: Right now I am doing 6x3 on pretty much all of my lifts. I will move to 12x3 on the chest lifts.
Sex drive: No problem with the questions. I'm not shy. It's not what it was when I was 25 or even 30. Pretty spotty, and def lower than when I was 215. That being said, no problems in the performance department (gets up and hard as ever and seminal quantity seems normal), just not as much desire. Have sex about 1-2 times per week on average.
Water: I drink 3-4 liters every day. I do drink coffee and a little diet pop. No prob in cutting that out though. Milk, it depends. I used to use it in my protein shakes but I notice that I look/feel much softer and fatter when I drink milk.
AI preference: Is it due to Aromasin being a suicide inhibitor that it is the preference here? Does that make it "stronger" or just different?
Other: I have had a gut feeling that my estrogen was high and my test low for a few years now. No blood work or anything, just a feeling.
Thanks again for all of the help. If you think treating for elevated estrogen is a good idea off cycle, I am all for it.
tread-mI think the best idea as yyou begin your kitchen and gym work would be to get some bloods and request free test level and estrogen levels in addition to your regular panel. Gives you some real nice direction on goals.
Will do.
Thanks for the good advice. In the mean time I will be lurking and reading, trying to keep the noob questions and comments to a dull roar.
Hi Tread, somebody recommended this site:
http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Female_Hormone_Testing.php
and this panel:
Female Hormone Testing Panel contains the following tests:
Estradiol, Serum Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) Testosterone, Serum
Complete Blood Count (CBC) Comprehensive Metabolic Profile
Would this be good, or do you have a better private source/panel?
I would also like to know where my IGF and such are related to the HGH?
I hope you like Chicken, Fish and Rice. LOL ;-P
I bought myself a rice cooker after tread pointed me to the Jaycutler site.
(Aroma is the maker, get the bigger one it steams also, you can make enough for a couple days at a time and it stays just right if you stir it once in a while)
Lean Protein, Veggies, Avacado & Nuts, and Rice, Sweet Potatoes, & Oats... Pretty simple. Now just to execute!
Quick question: I noticed he has white rice in there. I always thought that was a no no compared to brown rice?
From what I remember he mixes it up. Thats where I heard about Basmati rice. I bought a big sack of it and keep it in a used 10lb protein bucket. The execution is the hard part, I travel a lot for business so I make the best choices I can with whats available. I take Protein powder and bars with me to supplement.
I am a goofy bald MFer! lol
Yeah, I was about 15% when I was 215. I am prob about 18% now with the addition of the last 20lbs. A lot has been muscle and my strength is up but so is my BF.
As for the reason for the single digit body fat... Two of them. 1> Never been lean and mean. I mean EVER. Really want to challenge myself here. 2> I want a little "bounce" room. So that if I go up a little in BF I won't be back to square one.
I should have been clearer and edited the original post to be 18%