+ 1 51 y/o male, first EVER cycle
Hi all,
Really looking forward to any /all feedback 
Here are my stats:
51
6 ft
195 lbs
BF% 19
Started training at 20 years old (packed on almost 30 lbs in 6 months - strictly natty!) been on and off training for last 30 yrs. Most recently hitting cardio (30 min eod), doing 10,000 steps ED, daily light weight for all muscle groups (circuit).
*****See my post in Cycle Logs*****
DIET:
EARLY MORNING smoothie (almond milk - unsweetened, NZ whey isolate - 27 gr per serving, tbsp nat. peanut butter, teaspoon org. honey, 2 tbsp blueberries, 1/2 banana)
MID-MORNING 4 boiled egg whites, 2 oz meat protein, 1 apple
LUNCH 1/2 cup brown rice, 5 oz meat protein, 1/2 cup broccoli or cabbage
MID-AFTERNOON: NZ whey isolate\almond milk protein shake
DINNER (post-workout): 2 oz meat protein, 1/2 cup broccoli or cabbage, NZ whey isolate\almond milk protein shake.
Minimum 2 litres water ED
MED ISSUES:
Rheumatoid arthritis (taking a biologic called HUMIRA@40 mgs bi-weekly)
Depression (taking SSRI called sertraline@ 100mgs/day)
Again, I look forward to feedback. Certainly I have gained from research that a first cycle should usually be test only. My proposed cycle includes Dbol as I definitely could use the boost up front. Also, as you can see from my BF%, the CLEN would really help! However, in terms of learning how my body will respond to the initiation of a dose of ANY type of steroid for the first time, I certainly understand and will follow if I receive advice to limit to test only.
Doctor D
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I am following this whole thread with much curiosity. I'm rooting for you, @doctor_d!
I would seriously consider just how depressed you are. You can expect to feel like shit after your cycle is over. Do you have a job where you need to be in top psychological and intellectual shape? If so, you may find yourself in a tough spot.
At your age and given your depression, I would try TRT first.
Thanks for the warning/advice.
I've discussed TRT with mt doctor, but because my test level is at 600 ng/dl, there is no justification for TRT.
Are there solutions for the lows that come post cycle? How long might I expect to be in a "tight spot"? I suspect it is different for each individual, but is there a general period of time that all folks coming off supplemental test would suffer?
Running prop for 12 weeks is a bit long for a short ester I'd go with test c or e for first cycle. Dbol is a good compound love the stuff but still a little to much for first cycle get your feet wet with the test first.... and absolutely drop that clen man!!!!
n/a
No please dont run that.
Use eroids search function and read up bro.......... way better things you can and should be doing instead of going down the clen route............ and D.bol without a test base is not recommended.
FAZ has your back in this thread.............. heed his advice please bro.
He's got test prop I'm there week 1-12 bro? I agree on the clem that shit is fucked up
get some bloodwork done. you may have low test and be ready for doc prescribed trt which would be covered through your insurance. that may be all you need instead of a cycle. if your natural test levels come back in acceptable range then as faz said a test only cycle but after a little more work and lower the bodyfat.
Hi there, your definitely going about things the right way about asking questions but I think a little bit more research is need.
Dbol will add mass quickly but if your gyno prone it'll ruin you before you know what's happening. So definitely drop that from cycle!!!
Clen, it works but the risks far outweigh the rewards! It's something only really needed if your prepping for a show.
Try carb cycling or only eating carbs between 7am an 2pm that will help you lose body fat without the risks associated with clen. It's really not necessary.
Test prop can come with pip(post injection pain) especially into virgin muscle which yours will be. Also the frequency of injections needed can be a massive pain in the arse, literally and figuratively.
I believe once you have lowered your body fat to 15% a simple test e cycle of 500mg a week for 12 weeks, split in to two injections is your best bet.
Your pct is fine, that's the standard protocol we suggest.
Given your age recovery might not be so easy so I'd definitely suggest bloodwork pre cycle to get your baseline then bloodwork again week 6 to check your estrogen levels.
You didn't mention anything in regards to an ai? What do propose on using?
The only thing I would be concerned about here is that after dropping down to 15% or so he be 6' and around 180lbs. Is the natural base going to be there warranting a cycle?
Can you please expand on that?
That's a very good point. I didn't do the maths to work it out. I'll try an remember to next time.
Hey Faz/Makwa,
What is the concern regarding 6' 180 lbs is a base warranting a cycle?
The concern is at 6 foot tall weighing 180lbs, you are not really near your genetic potential.
You need to have a decent base to build from otherwise you will struggle to keep any gains
I understand...So at 51, 6 ft tall, what would I aim for in terms of genetic potential?
I would say 200lbs but if you put your diet in the diet section, gets some help there, an see where your at in 6months.
I'm not sure if your age will make it harder for you to put on weight, I'm guessing not because your testosterone is still in normal range.
Right on. Thanks for everything Faz, and all.
I personally think that if you get down to 180 you should be in good condition to have a bash at a test only first cycle..... being a young pup at 51 you should see marvellous gains if you get the two other more important things right................... eating/training
I was hoping you would see this an give your opinion, I wasn't 100% sure because of his age and didn't want to give the wrong/bad advice
he cant jack upto 200 easy like youngster bro.... things happen a bit slower when you hit 50+.... i think he should be ok if he gets his head on and kills the kitchen and gym....... a good diet alone can transform blokes in their 50s... and the test boost will make him feel superb, not much can go wrong with a 500mg ride at his age...... PCT will be more important than the cycle... i hope he gets his head around a good pct protocol..... its crucial!!
Hey Viking,
Hoping you can expand on your mention of:
"PCT will be more important than the cycle... i hope he gets his head around a good pct protocol..... its crucial!!"
I had planned to use Nolva and Clomid as per my previous post.
Thanks,
D
I just helped out a friend at the gym mid 50's,(Correction 61)was a damn good natty bodybuilder in his youth but has been primarily into running the last couple decades. Well time has been catching up so after many conversations with me and his doctor and having got bloods he asked me what I thought he should do. I recommended 200mg test per week. He will be finishing his first vial here in the next week or so, I saw him Saturday after not seeing him for about a week and I can see the fullness coming out on him. And you cannot get him to shut up about how great he feels in the gym, in the bedroom and in life. Plus at that dosage there is no concerns for AI.
Excellent!!.............................. and i bet you got a good buzz from sharing knowledge and seeing a guy very very happy
Fucking right I did! It is great to see anybody perk up but when you are dealing with older dudes that bust there ass and you see them getting dragged down, when they finally come around and it hits them it is pure f'ing magic.
i bet he sees a lot of muscle memory action too............ 5wks in now, let me know what he is like after 10/12............ reborn i bet
I will, he already told me "I am never going back".. But again, this guy works hard, he could out run just about anyone I know and is religious about the gym and eats right.
Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks
lol............ i only know because im fkn ancient...................................... lmaoooooooo
Honestly not a problem, you seem like you want to learn rather than the stubborn 'I'm going to do it anyway' mentality there's seems to be a lot of recently +1. Anymore questions feel free to send me a PM
Everyone who responded:
Thanks for your response/feedback!
FAZ:
OK, I do have results for test. levels:
bio-available test is 600 (the result online only gave that number so I assume the unit is ng/l?)
600 is well within "normal" however on the lower end. Optimum would definitely be preferred over normal.
I believe the threshold for a medical low test. diagnosis is 300 ng/l so it would seem I will need to supplement on my dime.
For AI, I am hoping to enlist Nolva (20 mg EOD on cycle) as opposed to an AI, only because I have no idea whether I am prone to gyno.
In terms of the Clen, Dbol, carb and BF% advice you've given - I will do exactly as advised, thank you.
Regards,
doctor_d
600 isn't on the lower end. It is right in the middle and if you were ever to go on TRT that is the level that your doc would be shooting to attain.
If the lower end (ie. the threshold at which a doctor will prescribe TRT) is 300 ng/dl, and optimum is 1200 ng/dl:
From 300 to 1200 is 9 graduations on a graduated scale (like markings on a thermometer).
From 300 to 600 is 3 marks on the scale out of the 9 in the range (300 - 1200). This puts 600 on the lower third of the range. I think 700 - 900 would be mid, no?. At any rate, I'd like it to be higher.
I'd rather not pass judgement on your baseline levels, to me they look good for your age but I don't know enough about it just yet, someone older might be able to help more with that.
In regards to an ai, nolva can be used but there are better options, being aromasin or adex, research them an if you have more questions after that feel free to send me an Fr an ill help you where I can.
Save the nolva for pct.
I have done lots of reading on Aromasin/Arimidex. Also seen cycles where Nolva was included in order to deal with gyno. An AI over a SERM does seem more effective, yet somewhat cost prohibitive...I know, I can't afford to be bargaining with my health. I suppose if I can't afford the AI then I shouldn't use the test...
I suppose if I can't afford the AI then I shouldn't use the test...
You hit the nail on the head there mate.
Been reading up more and prefer Aromasin to Arimidex. I have RA and with sides related to joint issues, I don't want to use Arimidex.
I would aim to have the AI on hand in case gyno shows up. Don't know how my body will react to the test, however it is clear the risk of being affected warrants having an AI should it be needed. I'll just put off the cycle until I can purchase everything. By the time I drop the necessary BF I should be good to go.
How you even supposed to afford the food then? The most important and expensive part of the cycle.
...because the Aromasin is in addition to the food/test/PCT
The first two lines of the post are a quote from doctor d's last post. I think this comment was meant for him?
Yep. They were directed towards the OP.
Anon+3 for being receptive to the advice given... A lot of guys here know their shit
Faz
+3 to you as well
Thanks Colonel, and all.
Agree +2 ..
X2
+3 bro
Thanks mate, I've seen a few of the more experience members getting frustrated of late so I'm trying to help out a bit more where I can
Great post bro, keep it coming and become part of the solution
Your comment above should by all rights see a lot of thumbs up action when the guys see your input.
AnonGot my vote... Let's take him to the next level tag
Thanks. Nearly all my knowledge has come from reading this forum, I'm happy to be able to contribute something back.