posted Wed, 10/30/2013 - 02:49
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When to transition from aromasin to arimidex
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I've been researching the proper use of AI during cycle. I've seen a few aromasin vs. arimidex threads and one common conclusion is that it;s best to use aromasin first and then switch to arimedex as you finish your cycle. Am I reading this right? For a 12 weeks cycle would something like 6.25mg aromasin ED for weeks weeks 3-10 and then switch to arimidex .25mg EOD for weeks 10-12.
Getting my research on here. thanks for the help.
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Sorry to Hi-jack your thread, but here are the results of my blood test -- its not exactly what I was expecting...
Test Name Result Flag Reference Range Lab
CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 9.1 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL SE
RBC 4.75 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL SE
Hemoglobin 14.3 12.6-17.7 g/dL SE
Hematocrit 43.0 37.5-51.0 % SE
MCV 91 79-97 fL SE
MCH 30.1 26.6-33.0 pg SE
MCHC 33.3 31.5-35.7 g/dL SE
RDW 14.7 12.3-15.4 % SE
Platelets 286 155-379 x10E3/uL SE
Neutrophils 56 40-74 % SE
Lymphs 34 14-46 % SE
Monocytes 7 4-12 % SE
Eos 3 0-5 % SE
Basos 0 0-3 % SE
Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.0 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL SE
Lymphs (Absolute) 3.1 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL SE
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.7 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL SE
Eos (Absolute) 0.2 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL SE
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL SE
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % SE
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL SE
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 89 65-99 mg/dL SE
BUN 22 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL SE
Creatinine, Serum 1.25 0.76-1.27 mg/dL SE
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 78 >59 mL/min/1.73 SE
eGFR If Africn Am 90 >59 mL/min/1.73 SE
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 8-19 SE
Sodium, Serum 138 134-144 mmol/L SE
Potassium, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.2 mmol/L SE
Chloride, Serum 102 97-108 mmol/L SE
Carbon Dioxide, Total 22 19-28 mmol/L SE
Calcium, Serum 9.1 8.7-10.2 mg/dL SE
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL SE
Albumin, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.5 g/dL SE
Globulin, Total 2.3 1.5-4.5 g/dL SE
A/G Ratio 1.9 1.1-2.5 SE
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL SE
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 54 39-117 IU/L SE
AST (SGOT) 55 HIGH 0-40 IU/L SE
ALT (SGPT) 30 0-44 IU/L SE
Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 1304 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL SE
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL SE
FSH, Serum
FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL SE
Estradiol
Estradiol 28.3 7.6-42.6 pg/mL SE
When I wrote the original post I was not being consistent with the dosing, I was thinking maybe the sides were a result of all the ups and downs. Since then I settled on a dose of 6.25 morning and night and ran with it. After reading the post with the list of symptoms of high and low estrogen I was sure it was high estrogen as I had even some of the stranger symptoms like bad allergies. I also had somewhat weak erections the last week and the sex drive wasn't great either. in the weeks following that post the gyno symptoms got much worse, my right pec took on that pointy appearance around the nipple and the left one developed actually 2 hard lumps behind it, one on each side. They were quite sore to the touch. I took 40mg nolvadex the last 3 nights however and increased the pm aromasin dose to 12.5. so I've been taking 6.25 in the am and 12.5 at night the last 3 days along with the nolvadex and they are looking much better today. They are still sore but not as sore. I had been feeling quite emotional the last couple weeks, but again less so today. Thats where I'm at now.
wanted to see what everyone thinks about this.
Stick with onr or the other.
Trying to find exactly the right dose to keep a good ratio of T > E is hard enough anyway without making it harder by switching between the two.
in some ways i agree but not everyone responds to them the same way. i actually respond much better to arinidex than aromasin but i also like aromasin because it inhibits estrogen rebound, but it comes price for me, aromsin usually gives me low estrogen sides before it clears any signs of gyno on me, i generally preach to the new guys to have both on hand in the event one is not effective for them.
Good explanation and advice on having both on hand.
Get both up front tho. Just in case you start one dont resond to it or it doesnt do the job completely. Im having that issue right now. Even Aromasin at 25mg/day is barely keeping gyno under control and I didnt order Adex up front so will have to wait now. Dont make the same mistake!
what are you running? it might not be an estrogen problem.
Just test e 300 2x/wk.
Something is wrong with this picture. You're taking 25mg of Aromasin ED on that dose of test? That would completely crash the estro of 99% of the people taking that dose. You said that it's not controlling it, so what does your blood tests show? What are your symptoms?
The dose the first 2 weeks was 375mg 2x/wk as I was drawing to the wrong line on the syringe. Corrected that now yesterday.
Itchy and puffy nipples are my only real symptoms, small amount of moon face comes on when the time approaches to dose the Aro again. Besides that I feel great. Strength is up, mood is better than usual and I have more of a sex drive than I've ever had in my life.
I don't have bloods. It's a $ issue right now. No, I don't even have an extra $60. I thought I was well prepared going into the cycle and had a good amount of money in saving. Naturally, a week into the cycle my truck took a shit on me and repairing it literally has left me with less than $100 to my name until December. I'm out of work right now -- which I thought would be a great time to run the cycle and focus totally on my training and eating, but now I'm looking for day work. I guess I'm open to flaming for this. It is what it is. Say woulda, coulda, shoulda, but it won't do any good moving forward. Just live and learn.
Not here to flame you at all. Glad you're letting us know what's going on.
Even at that dose of test, 25 mg of Aromasin ED is super/crazy high. I can't tell you what's going on without bloods, but it seems like your Aromasin is under-dosed or bunk. I don't know this for sure, but if you are still getting water retention (moon face) and puffy nipples at 25 mg ED, then your AI is severely under-dosed or bunk in my opinion. It's possible that you just convert test to estro more than 99% of the population, but that is probably not the case (but not impossible). Without the cash for bloods or a new AI, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe your AI is just under-dosed and you need to take more, but that would be just guessing, but that is all we have right now: guessing.
You need to read in the is section about the signs/symptoms of HIGH and LOW estro and makes sure you stay on top of this the best you can.
Update: went in for bloods this morning so we will know for sure whats going on by next week.
Glad to hear it! How are your symptoms lately? Looking forward to seeing the results.
Also, I meant to post this link last time, regarding symptoms of high/low estro:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/do-you-have-estro-issues
I'm pretty sure it's high estrogen. I decided to take 6.25 morning and night and just stick to it and see if things leveled out. But things got worse, I got a small hard lump behind my left nipple, and soft tissue that was previously behind the right nipple got harder, both are sore to the touch. I've also been pretty emotional - random outbreaks of crying at the slightest touchy feely commercials etc. I think it's safe to say the aromasin I've been taking is either bunk or I'm just not responding to it. I did take some Nolvadex the last 2 nights tho and that seems to be making a big difference. My nipples look "normal" in the morning after taking it.
On the positive side tho training has been good. I'm up 8 lbs while maintaining visible obliques, and weights that used to feel heavy I'm repping out with ease.
My guess is bunk AI. Nolvadex is fine for gyno, but it will do nothing for your high e2. It only targets the tissues in the breast (man-boobs :)). You could try and jump up the dose of aromasin (x2). Maybe you can tell if it's bunk or just under-dosed.
Regardless, I hope you've already ordered some new AI.
I'll try x2 on the dose and see if it makes a difference. I'm checking out source reviews right now for ordering the new AI, can finally afford it. I've gotten one suggestion so far.
I just sent you a friend request. Accept it, send me a PM and I would be happy to give you a suggestion.
Thanks man. I understand it is just guessing. I don't think the aro is bunk, as the symptoms come and go at a predictable rate when I take it. It all does seem to happen pretty fast, but as I understand Aromasin has an active half life of 8 hrs, so even taking it every 12 hrs could leave a window of time open for symptoms to crop up. It is possible that it is under dosed tho, that had crossed my mind.
I've had a small amount of soft tissue (fat?, breast tissue from puberty??) behind my nipples for as long as I can remember, more pronounced on the right side. And they get that pointy look if my body fat gets to where I start to lose my abs. That did seem to be increasing slightly when I did no cardio and let my diet get out of control during my 7 day peg leg experience. But I took 20mg Nolvadex, got strict with my diet again and hit 2 hrs of cardio a day the last 4 days and it is decreasing, maybe even better than before starting the cycle. So the Nolva is good for sure. I was planning to do this for 5 days. I'd actually have 2 more nights with the Nolva. I know a lot going on here.
It's leg day tho and I'm getting antsy to go hit it. I haven't squatted since starting the cycle due to well, the peg leg, but I'm hoping I am able to today! If not I'll deadlift!
What do you mean by peg leg? do you have so much pip that your leg hurts too much to squat?
Since you can't afford bloods, or another bottle of AI, maybe you should abort the cycle and start PCT. Start a fresh cycle when you have the cash perhaps? Not giving advice, just expanding on the conversation here.
Ya I kinda botched the injection I think. All the others went smoothly with minimal pip, but that one my whole upper quad and knee swelled all up. I couldnt bend my knee more than a few degrees or fully straighten it. I injected into the vastus lateralis and there was some pip at the injection site, but the real pain was actually in the rectus femoris. And it was bad bro, some of the worst pain ive ever experienced, constant for a good 5 days, but somehow its still worth it.... lol. I burried 1.5in pin and I think it was too deep. I was also nervous as that was only my second injection and was really shaky while injecting. I had a hell of a time getting the oil thru the pin on that one. But its all good how. I was able to squat yesterday. And I did deadlifts also just for the hell of it haha. But my damn strap ripped! chalks not allowed at my gym. I may end up aborting if things dont improve in the next week or so.
Aromasin all the way
Going the aromasin route, have some on the way. Pretty spendy, but pharmacy grade.
Which AI would you suggest for a first test only cycle? Perhaps I should have both on hand in case I respond poorly to one or the other.
i would prefer aromosin, at least I know i respond well to that.
Just use the aromatase inhibitor which suits you best. If one gives you bad side effects then try the other.
i would say definately not true, if anything it's opposite. arimidex can cause an estro rebound, whereas aromosin is a suicide inhibitor and renders aramotase useless until it flushes out of your body. honestly, as long as you respond to aromosin it is a better compound as it also doesn't mess with your cholesterol levels like arimidex.
bullshit. false information to the max.
upon digging, I've found out arimidex doesn't have the effect on lipids I thought it did. I would still choose aromasin over arimidex due to its positive effect on igf-1 levels. Here is a really good post somebody went through the trouble to put together regarding the difference between the two compounds. http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/aromasin-exem...
This doesn't address the rebound effect I have claimed, but i will do some digging.
actually, no digging is necessary. The article explains how as a non-suicidal inhibitor, arimidex has the tendency to cause estrogen rebound once its administration is ceased.
yes this is why some will run arimidex during and aromasin to finish
Thanks for clearing that up guys. I must have been a little confused on the estro rebound and ways to avoid it.