+ 1 Testosterone Circle of Life DURING a Cycle.
My Understanding of hCG, Adex, Clomid and Nolvadex and why Ill use all 4 for EVERY cycle. Check my "First Cycle" Thead for Cycle details
The Basic "theory" of my understanding is as follows: You obviously take Test so that you can have a tremendously elevated level of Test in you body. Test goes through a transformation called aromatization, Basically it is turned into Estrogen. When Your body produces too much estrogen, a couple things happen 1) It sends signals to stop or reduce natural testosterone production, and also can cause gyno. This my dear experts whom I need help from Is where the problems are and why hCG, Adex, Clomid and eventually Nolvadex are so essential.
So, now you are on Test and as a result your body is also producing too much estrogen OHH NO! There are a few ways to counteract this, and through my couple days of research, I have come to the conclusion that all of them combined during a cycle are more beneficial than just on. When Your body produces too much estrogen, the estrogen tells the pituitary there is to much testosterone so the pituitary stops producing LH. What hCG does is it says FUCK YOU Estrogen, Makes the pituitary its bitch and starts producing LH again. By producing LH again, the body doesn't see a "Testosterone Overload" so the Leidig Cell continues making Natural Testosterone. Now, So that this process doesn't repeat itself, You take Adex. What Adex does is, since Your body is now continuing to produce Testosterone although it shouldn't be, Adex (DEPENDING ON DOSAGE) stops or reduces the amount of testosterone your body turns into estrogen and since there is not a spike in estrogen, Your body Keeps a higher level of Testosterone without the Pituitary shutting down production! Now for the Clomid. Ive read many mixed reviews as to wether or not you need to run Clomid in conjunction with Adex. Suppose that Your Adex dosage is too low, well that sucks because now your body is creating more estrogen than you want it too, So the Adex isn't as effective as you want it to be and your estrogen levels are starting to spike. Well Shit If my estrogen Levels spike than your nuts shrink and you stop producing testosterone right? NO! hCG still have you covered in that aspect, BUT you now run the risks of Gyno, and unless you'd rather suck your own tities while playing with your already disfunctional cock (SMFH), Then you are saying FUCK YOU GYNO!! Now what Clomid does Is essentially beat Estrogen from one last aspect, Clomid Stops estrogen from telling the pituitary to stop producing HL, for the Leidigs cell to stop producing test, which will shrink your nuts cause gyno and blah blah blah.
In a short broken down "barney style" way heres how they all work.
1) HCG forces the pituitary to produce HL which tell the Leidigs Cell to continuously produce testosterone, by producing more testosterone, more estrogen is produced. Adex reduces the amount of aromatization that takes place so that the testosterone can't turn into estrogen. Just in case your Adex dose is too low, Clomid mutes the estrogen so that Pituitary doesn't know there is too much Testosterone which would cause a complete stoppage of Testicular Function. Its all a big Circle of Testicular life!!
HCG= Body is tricked so that the testis never stop working and continues producing natural test (No atrophy)
Adex= Stops or Reduces the amount of Test Aromatizing (Less Estrogen Production)
Clomid= Estrogen can't talk to the Pituitary which stops Hcg which stops natural Testi Function.
Nolvadex is used after the other 3 have stopped so that if there is still a spike in testosterone, which would case a spike in estrogen, You won't get gyno.
hCG, Adex, and Clomid are the life support of testicular function and estrogen reduction during a cycle and
Nolvadex is that back up after they are gone
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AnonI'll keep this short. You're wasting your money using the serms while on exogenous hormones. Anyone who tries this will waste their money too.
Heres the link http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/
And another one http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html
And another one http://txfertility.com/fertility-treatments/clomid-for-men/ Clomid can actually be like a male birth control...Prob its best feature
Just for Shits and Giggles, One more http://peaktestosterone.com/clomid_testosterone.aspx
Make sure to take not of the case study in this last article. Notice how they take ONLY 25mg ED for 4-6 weeks and Natural Test production almost TRIPLES!!! 99% of other members on here suggest taking 100mg for two weeks, then 50mg for two weeks, What benefit does that give you???? Think out side the box fellas and search things other than forum reviews. Clomid is actually is better to take than hCG.
Here is another link I like that shows how Aromasin is better than both Adex and Letro
http://allaboutpeptides.com/what-ai-is-right-for-you-anastrozole-exemest...
AnonNone of this means anything because you are ignoring the only factor that matters. YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT USING EXOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE IN COMBINATION WITH THESE ANCILLARIES.
Exogenous testosterone shuts down the hpta and it makes all of these ancillaries futile. Fuck 99% of these forums on Eroids. 1% of the membership knows what they're talking about and 99% are looking for answers.
Thank you, I cant understand why its so hard to comprehend to some people that its not a good idea. I discussed something like this to my endo and he looked at me, paused, and said No.
AnonYa I mean honestly I see what he's doing and where he's going with this. But he's missing the biggest part. Exogenous hormones render all the other ancillaries minus the AI and to some degree the HCG mute. Serms won't work they way they're designed with exogenous hormone usage.
http://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/first-cycle-44
Update what I plan to do In a few months after my BF is in check.
The first few posts really explain where I was going with this, but I changed some stuff around.
Thanks for all the Input
I think thats pretty much the same consensus that everybody has, so Im going to drop the clomid. I am going to drop Adex as well after conducting more research. Ill be substituting it with aromasin. My cycle will be Test E and hCG. And Aromasin/Nolva for PCT. Ive read that Aromasin can also be taken about an hour before workout @25mg due to its mildly androgenic and it suppresses estrogen which is useful during a cycle. Is anyone familiar with this?
The hcg and adex thru out cycle is fine but I don't see why u would start taking clomid in weeks 9-13..adex and hcg is plenty enough and clomid and nolvadex are pct meds and are not normally used during cycles..u need to be careful to not crash ur estro which is what's going to happen running all those a.i along with serms..u need some estro to build muscle so leave the clomid out until u start pct. Adex will control ur estro fine and even then u have to be careful on how much to take cause adex can crash u fairly easy also.
Heres the link http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/
And another one http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html
And another one http://txfertility.com/fertility-treatments/clomid-for-men/ Clomid can actually be like a male birth control...Prob its best feature
Just for Shits and Giggles, One more http://peaktestosterone.com/clomid_testosterone.aspx
Make sure to take not of the case study in this last article. Notice how they take ONLY 25mg ED for 4-6 weeks and Natural Test production almost TRIPLES!!! 99% of other members on here suggest taking 100mg for two weeks, then 50mg for two weeks, What benefit does that give you???? Think out side the box fellas and search things other than forum reviews. Clomid is actually is better to take than hCG.
Here is another link I like that shows how Aromasin is better than both Adex and Letro
http://allaboutpeptides.com/what-ai-is-right-for-you-anastrozole-exemest...
So while you are on a cycle you take hcg, clomid, and nolva, and adex?
Not exactly. I'm still trying to properly plan out everything for my cycle (16 weeks including PCT). But theoretically, taking hCG and Adex starting week 3 will would keep estrogen controlled during a cycle and keeps testis from shutting down which not only adds to the testosterone in the body but prevents astrophy. Adding clomid week 9 until week 13 continues to give your testis an extra jump start and boost to producing natural test right before you stop pinning test and after. Nolvadex is from week 12-16 like normal. It's there to prevent gyno since you have stopped taking test
In theory it sounds great but in reality your body is not dumb. It will sense what you are doing. Its one of the main reasons noone runs that combo and endos wont reccomend it either. You might be overthinking everything for this cycle and adding in all these extras makes you sound scared. I am on trt, I do not use hcg because my balls have not shrank at all in 3 years that its noticeable. Everyones body is different so you need a few cycles under your belt to know your body and any signs of real gyno. Itchy nipples is not a good way.to.judve, I wear shirts that rub the shit ojt of my nipples but I wont run home and take 2mg of.letro. Stop overthinking and start with tbe basics, read up on it some more here. Its not rocket surgery.
Heres the link http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/
And another one http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html
And another one http://txfertility.com/fertility-treatments/clomid-for-men/ Clomid can actually be like a male birth control...Prob its best feature
Just for Shits and Giggles, One more http://peaktestosterone.com/clomid_testosterone.aspx
Make sure to take not of the case study in this last article. Notice how they take ONLY 25mg ED for 4-6 weeks and Natural Test production almost TRIPLES!!! 99% of other members on here suggest taking 100mg for two weeks, then 50mg for two weeks, What benefit does that give you???? Think out side the box fellas and search things other than forum reviews. Clomid is actually is better to take than hCG.
Here is another link I like that shows how Aromasin is better than both Adex and Letro
http://allaboutpeptides.com/what-ai-is-right-for-you-anastrozole-exemest...