posted Sat, 07/25/2015 - 10:04
3667
Starting Heavy PCT after 20 Week Primo/Test Cycle
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Amazing cycle calls for amazing pct. and I am coming up on my last pin, so I am finalizing my PCT preparations. I have Clomid,Nolva,HCG,HMG, Gonal-F and Aromasin on hand. Here are my doses. I have researched many different ways of incorporating HCG/HMG/Gonal and here is what I have come up with.
HCG/HMG/Gonal-F Starting couple days after last pin of Primo/Test:
HCG: 750iu EOD
HMG: 75iu EOD
Gonal-F: 75 iu EOD
Then I will drop the HCG/HMG/Gonal after about 3 weeks and run Clomid/Nolva
As well as add DAA 3g/ day and Anabeta Elite (cortisol control)
PCT Starting 3 weeks after last pin:
Clomid -100/100/50/50
Nolva - 40/40/20/20
Im sure i missed something, so any criticism is appreciated
Thanks!
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TMaxx -
1. what did you decide post ccycle - above?
2. how was a High Primo and Low test cycle? worth it?
I too posted my bloods as you did.. I appreciate that
Very worth it, next time I'm trying primo ace instead. And getting pharma pct lol still struggling to recover
Yea so this pct was a failure. Starting over with 100mg clomid 50 nolva per day for a month and will report back. Bloods posted as well if anyone is interested
ZewiAnabolXStay with that kinda your best option...with what you have.. don't try and mess with it...
Will do thanks
ZewiAnabolXWhatis everything you have on hand right now everything?? And posy your test..
Have hcg , gonal-f , clomid, nolva and arimidex. Bloods posted already
ZewiAnabolXSo no aromison?? Correct?
Correct . I planned on re upping on it, but recent events had me hesitant
where dod you post Bloods?
i just got mine back after stopping a cycle too
Go to my profile and go to pics. Should be there . Or just search in recently posted blood work" shocking blood work " is mine
i ran a 20 weeker with 19 nors through the entire thing. about 2 weeks post pct had bloods pulled and test came back at 700ng/dl and free test of 133pg/ml. which is outstanding even for someone whos never cycled. while being shut down hard by 19-nors for 20 weeks and i can come back to those numbers just goes to show it can be done. and i didnt have some crazy pct either. this is my tried and true pct.
hcg throughout cycle 250iu 2x/week, blast 500iu eod last 2 weeks leading up to pct
then 1x shot of 100mcg gnrh (triptorelin)
then 4 weeks serm treatment
toremifene 120/120/60/60
clomid 100/100/50/50
aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
not too elaborate and i have the bloods to prove its effectiveness. just dont get liquid research chems. pharma grade torem, and clomid. aromasin was ugl. triptorelin was from a peptide company though
Thanks for the input! Next cycle I may think about running hcg throughout. But Doesn't research show thank running hcg for too long can desensitize receptors?
If I remember correctly desensitization is dose dependent. A low dose for 16 weeks~ wouldnt desensitize someone significantly afaik.
You're right, desensitization occurs from over stimulation from high amounts of LH or LH deprivation (long cycles). Hcg is prescribed to TRT patients for years with no ill side effects.
I don't mean to be rude or start an argument but 2 weeks post PCT is too soon for labs and doesn't prove much as far as HPTA restart. One should wait at least 6-8 weeks for a true reading of natural hormone levels.
Using tore for PCT is a subject I find interesting. I'm curious, why did you substitute tore for nolva instead of clomid? Do you have any other experience using tore for PCT?
The tor brigade. There are no studies for test related issues. It is not an approved drug, hence pharma grade is not available. It just never goes away...
And two weeks is plenty of time for the SERMS to exit the system as to not interfere with blood readings. My levels would be pretty stable by that time. even aromasin which has the longest acting effect still will only suppress estrogen for 72 hrs.
I agree that 2 weeks is long enough for SERMs and AIs to be expelled. They wouldn't interior with labs if they were still present. However, 2 weeks is too soon to know if the HPTA has been reset and long term homeostasis is taking place.
Toremifene is a superior drug than nolva. For bodybuilders anyway, not breast cancer. Because it doesn't lower igf levels like nolva does. Among other benefits. Nolva is outdated. Arimidex is outdated. There are better drugs out there but people still use these outdated inferior ancillaries still.. Why, I dunno. I researched for years before ever starting my first cycle and went to my doctor prior an explained what I was going to do and got baseline tests. I've always used torem in place of nolva for pct because it's better and it's never failed me.
I don't agree that tore is superior to nolva. There is no scientific data in males to back up that claim. Nolva is superior than clomid though. I'm surprised that you aren't using tore and nolva.
Because torem is similar to nolva. Pretty much interchangeable with torem being superior based on all the evidence I've seen. While clomid helps recover you through a different mechanism. I forget exactly and I'm at work and too lazy to look up the specifics but torem and nolva act through the same mechanism so Id be overkill to run both.
I agree that it's similar to nolva, but I don't think there have been enough case studies on male subjects to warrant it's use over nolva.
At present time I think the only time it should be used during PCT is in place of clomid. When someone cannot handle the clomid side effects.
I hope I'm not coming off as a condescending. I'm really interested in the use of tore in PCT and have only meet a few people who enjoy using it during PCT.
Thanks for all the info. A lot of knowledge in this thread. Next cycle I may introduce hcg low dose and see the difference compared to this cycle. Should be interesting
StevebYou could try using some GNRH too. Worse case scenario is it doesn't work.
RustyhookerDon't frontload any pct as directed below. Talk about nasty side effects...smh.
Your pct is gnarly huge. Not like you ran tren dude. After my 20 Week cycle simple pct. Hcg...possibly depending on chems.
Guessing you ran high tests as well?
Test 250 mg/ week
Primo at 900 mg a week
So no need for hmg or gonal?
also by front load you mean starting the hcg before the clomid/ nolva? Or just mean I don't need to take 100 mg clomid and 4mg nolva?
RustyhookerThe guy at the bottom there said you should frontload. No no no. Lol. You hit double doses of real pct and the sides suck.
I just think you've got everything under the sun on the pct. Hcg if desired pre pct. Then your clomid and Nolvadex.
I believe that you mis read what I wrote. I wrote that frontloading for two weeks is excessive. Doses should only be doubled for the first week of PCT.
got it, ok thanks boss. just started the hcg today. Will get bloods pulled in the next coming months
A nolva clomid PCT for primo and test should begin 14 days after last pin.
You only need to frontload nolva and clomid for the first week of PCT.
20 weeks is a long time for the HPTA to be shut down. You should add an additional 2 weeks (6 in total) of nolva at 20 mg/day.
Using aromasin during PCT, when one is no longer introducing exogenous test, puts one at risk of crashing their e2. If e2 is kept within range while on cycle then an AI is not needed during PCT.
Hcg,hmg, and gonal f are all suppressive to natural hormone production. During PCT we are trying to regain natural hormone production. This means using theses compounds during PCT is counterproductive to recovery. These compounds should be used on cycle to prevent the leydig and sertoli cells from completely shutting down.
Thanks for the input!