Saw Endo - Got Nolvadex, is it enough?
Hey Guys,
I am new at this and just got done with an 8 ish week cycle of Anavar 50mg / Winstrol 50mg (previous to that a month long Pro Hormone cycle). I idiotically didn't take any AIs except for a mild Proviron half way through the cycle. Long story short, I got man boobs that hit me like a ton of bricks all within a few days after nearing the end of the cycle and also more bloat, forehead acne, hairs falling out, and problems keeping an erection.
I went to my general doctor who sent me to an endocrinologist. I went out of my way to get bloodwork done before seeing the endo which cost me some money and ultimately the endo told me o you didn't need to do all of that, and he gave me a script for 20MG Nolvadex daily for 30 days. It seemed like a generic protocol and I was excited that he was willing to help me, however I'm second guessing the protocol mostly based on the plethora of articles I've read on the forum. It almost seems to be that I should add in CLOMID and perhaps AROMASIN, as well as perhaps increase the dosage of Nolvadex, at least for the first couple weeks.
Considering I was on prohormones for nearly 2 months, followed by almost consecutive 8 weeks of the Anavar and Winstrol, and no real AI or PCT started, do you guys think maybe the 20mg of Nolvadex for 30 days is a bit weak and might not exactly get me back to normal? I mean it sounds ridiculous to question a specialist doctor, however as I eluded, he really only glanced at what I told him I took and really didn't go through the bloods that much (I posted them below - still waiting on some other results).
Let me know if you guys think I should up the ante and double up the Nolvadex to 40mg (I got the pharmacy to fill the refill so now I have double the quantity and enough to last 40mg for 4 weeks if need be). Below is what I mocked up based on the thorough forum reading, but I'm not sure if this makes sense or not. I was looking/feeling great, then all of a sudden all those sides hit hard. I'm 34, 5'11 and 185. I also gained 4 lbs in the last week since this started.
How is this for a PCT for me to start today?
Nolvadex:
Week 1 40mg, Week 2 40mg, Week 3 20mg, Week 4 20mg, Week 5 20mg
Clomid:
Week 1 100mg, Week 2 100mg, Week 3 50mg, Week 4 50mg, Week 5 25mg
Aromasin:
12.5mg throughout the 4 to 5 weeks.
And is 5 weeks a good duration? I feel like 4 might be too little considering I was 'ON Cycle' for nearly 4 months ; (. And if I went with the above, do I actively monitor my body and sides to adjust dosage accordingly? I.e. if I feel like the E2 is getting slammed too quick, pull back on dosage or eliminate Aromasin, or what do you do?
And here are my blood test results received today, again I am still waiting on:
Cortisol, DHEA, FSH, LH, Prolactin, PSA, Testosterone free and total (wish I had the test one to show you).
Items showing as 'high' out of range:
Estradiol: 82
Progesterone: 1.4
Cholesterol/HDLC Ratio: 7.7
AST: 47
T3 Uptake: 46
RDW: 15.1
Items showing as 'low' out of range:
HDL Cholesterol: 20
MCH: 26.6
MCHC: 31.8
Items showing as normal within the range:
Cholesterol
Triglycerides
LDL-Cholesterol
Non HDL Cholesterol
Glucose
TSH
T4 Free
ALT
Hepatic Function Panel
CBC Dif
White and Red Blood cells
Yea, so that's everything. I appreciate any insight you guys can help uncover and recommend for me with regards to the best way to attack this PCT plan without overdoing it, but also doing it enough to combat the early onset of gyno and the other sides I mentioned - bloating, weight gain, loss of muscle tone, soft erections, hair loss, forehead acne. Thanks!
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4 weeks is enough, there is a reason 4 weeks is the norm, after a certain amount of time using these AI and sarms for pct they can start to become suppressive themselves. they are only intended to get you body doing what it does naturally, any longer can have the opposite effect, as with any exogenous compound we put in our body, our body will stop doing or making that same thing naturally after over exposure. you do 4 weeks and see how you feel, if you are not recovered you may need to do something different or try again with different compounds.
Yes Sir. And I appreciate all the time you invested with me 'off line' in the PMs. It was all very useful. I'll let you know how that stuff works that I ordered to add to the Nolva.
This is kind of a mess. You need to PCT but you also need address your gyno with some brute force letrozole. It's possible to complete PCT and gyno resolves after a hormonal balance is established.
I would address this by using TRT doses of testosterone, while simultaneously running a letrozole protocol. Once the gyno resolves, I begin PCT. Problem here is you don't have any of this shit in your possession and someone has to babysit you through this process.
Some will say nolvadex will work. Some will say raloxifene is the way. I've never known anyone to have these methods resolve their gyno. I've read some things but this is the internet.
i would disagree on the trt dose of test, he is already aromatizing like crazy, i think just get the estrogen under control and begin PCT, if the gyno is bad enough letrozole is a good option. how bad is the gyno is the first real question, is he just swollen and puffy or has he developed lumps and if he has how big are those lumps, he is very new to this and letro is so very unforgiving and very harsh for many to combat gyno. ive used letro a few times in the past and i quickly develop low estrogen sides this doesnt apply to every one but he can accomplish everything he needs with gyno reduction during pct with the correct sarms. suppressing him longer i believe will just aggravate the situation even more. he needs homeostasis to correct the issues.
Hey Guys, the gyno isn't too bad at all. Just slight increase in chest size and nipples a little soft/pointy and chest 'soft' and not as tight. NO Lumps or hard spots. Nothing extreme like some of these photos I see online.
I also heard Letrozole is quite extreme and it seems like Nolvadex/Clomid/Aromasin is a nice combo, or even Nolvadex/Clomid for not as 'harsh' or extremely long cycles.
this will go away as soon as you get the estrogen straight, you may need to blast the estrogen down a bit to get it all gone but there is no need for letro with just a little puffy chest, its when you get lumps and BOOBS that you need letro. you ALWAYS NEED aromasin, or another anti estrogen so you dont have estrogen issue like you are having.
You should stay away from steroids until you educate yourself enough. You're doing things half way and without a plan throwing different compounds here and there without the idea of what these compounds do and how tobuse them. These are not candies or supplements, but powerful presctiption drugs. It will help you avoid these mistakes in future.
PCT is a serious business and I wouldn't use research company stuff. I have nothing against any of them but found way to many complaints about them and from my own experience it is a hit and miss. On top of that some of them might be a little dificult to dose. For me personally PCT is the most important part of the cycle and I don't even trust fully our suppliers and opt for real pharma pct products.
Another issue is that you might be very sensitive to estro since I know many guys who do not use AI on cycle and do not develop gyno so keep it in mind. Again, research, these are powerful drugs that can cause ireversable changes to your body. Your cycle was rather mild and since it was a first cycle you should recover, given that your body is fully healthy and you did good by getting bloods and seeing endo. Good luck
At this point, a three day delivery of research chems is exactly what I would be doing, while researching sources for pharma products.
rxagentI would listen to the instructions your doctor gave you
I forgot to add, I also did 5 shots of 270mg of Testosterone Sustanon. The last shot was yesterday. How will this effect the PCT - I imagine some synthetic test will be floating around for 2 more weeks : ( so not sure how that affects things. And for the Clomid and the Aromasin, I ordered some 'research peptides liquid' version as it was available within 3 days/quick shipping. Hopefully it works. I'm new to all this and appreciate any help guys!
I totally missed this post. Good job securing some stuff. It usually boils down to letrozole. So you should probably get some of that.
Don't be injecting that much test without an AI in your system. Your just aggravating things. You have a vacation coming up. I'd cancel that. It is far easier to reverse gyno "on cycle" than in PCT.
ive also found masteron propinate to be effective in combating estrogen and gyno. there is a long and very detailed post/thread around here about it.