posted Wed, 12/26/2012 - 21:47
3420
Nolva = useless these days?
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So on one of my other boards its greatly agreed that nolva is far too toxic and carcinogenic to be useful anymore when there are such wonderful things like indole-3-carbinol, resversatrol, phytoserms, tribulus, etc etc.
I personally don't want to take nolva if enough people think its carcinogenic. I'm good on that compound...
You guys have any opinions on this?
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Its ok for me. Took 50mg of nolva ed for a week, and liver value didnt increase, while the gyno went away in 5 days. Definately less harmful on liver than Methylation or 17aas.
I use nolva because I do test cycles of 1200mg and up. It's also good to use if you slack off and miss a weekly injection. IMO the other anti es are better for sub gram cycles.
theres probably quite a few brothers on this site that'll bash the shit outta this post, but its whatever - i started pct thia monday and only took the nolva for 2 days and stopped. my logic behind this is that even with it being a SERM, its still a synthetic estrogen and would rather not be introducing it into my system while restartng my system. to prevent gyno from rearing its ugly head, ive been using forma-stanzol with great results. 5 pumps twice a day, been using that dosage for about 3 weeks now, 7 or 8 pumps a day for about a month before that while on cycle (dbol kickstart, test e, prop finisher, hcg blast 500ius last 10 days of cyle, pct started 3 days after last shots). im also taking unleashed, pct assist ("designer" pct products), and clomid at the usual 100/100/50/50, and so far so good - strength has barely been affected at all, only lost 1 lb out of the 40 i gained on cycle, and my libido is def still there, although not where it was. if you're serious about learning and being open-minded, peep this link. its a long ass read but some extremely valid points are made. lemme know what you think
skalpaive read that too but keep in mind all those guys on elitefitness have stakes in companies like ntbm and mr supps... so take what they say with a grain of salt. ill take the word of vets here more seriously than the mods over at elite. now i think toremifene is an even better option along with a triptorelin shot on day 1. if one could aquire all the legit ancilleries i think this pct would be awesome
pct
day 1: 100mg triptorelin
week 1-4: 120/90/60/30 toremifene
week 1-4: 100/100/50/50 clomid
week 1-4: 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25 aromasin
hell yeah man i feel ya on takng what they say with a grain of salt, but what got me leanin towards their idea of holistic pct or whatever is all the resources, scientific studies, and documentation they site throughout the article. not only that, but so far the forma-stanzol has kicked ass which gives them credibility in my eyes. im still weary of skipping out on nolva altogether and have in fact started takng 10mgs a day for last few nights bcuz nips were gettng puffy and itchy. to update my previous post, my libido has pretty much crashed :( i can get worked up easily yeah, but dont for no reason anymore ya know? im definitly going
*to be looking into the idea and concept of holistic (i hate that word, feels like a rich ppl or hollywood type thing lol) pct and doimg a lot more research before my next cycle in late may or early june.
skalpaoh i guess yur already on my friends list haha no need for an FR
skalparespect bro, ive read "nelsons 2010 pct" too and i have to admit, im intriuged....really intruiged! haha but im scared to try this "new-school" pct and ditch the tried and true pct that all the vets recommend and end up totally fucked with no libido and essentially have run no pct. i know the froma is good shit but im not sold that its good enough as a standalone pct. from my reading i like toremifene for pct. it doesnt drop igf levels and provides all the same benefits as nolva with less cons. plus it brings the boys back real quick. low hung nuts within days haha id like to follow yur current pct to see how it goes for yah. FR sent. but since your takin a low dose of nolva and clomid, i dont know how accurate it will be on providing a ntbm exclusive pct. whats yur current pct?
only the nolva is at a really low dose (10mgs each night up until next monday, then 5mgs for a week after that and stop unless itchy nips come back) but the clomid im running at standard dosing - 100/100/50/50. my logic behind this decision to drop the nolva but continue clomid is that in all the references ans studies dude site in that article, its only the nolva that seems to have so many negative sides that actually hinder recovery. i know theyre chemically and structurally very similar, but act very differently in the body. alongside the formastanzol at 5 pumps 2x a day im taking unleashed 3x a day and a product called pct assist 4x a day. my nuts have def started to come back in size significantly, and i feel a hell of a lot better already than first few days. im on day 10 of pct, so i'll keep you posted for sure. im incredibly interested in this toremiphene and have heard of it but honestly never researched it at all, but ima do just that today
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/natural-post-cycle-t...
Everything these days can kill you.If you follow your cycle with proper dosing and pct you should be fine.I can't say the same for some of these guys who throw everything in a pot and stir.That my friends is a recipe for disaster.
I think nolva is our best bet for now till some other side effect free drug is made if ever.no one is making a drug with the idea of pct for amped up bodybuilders lol.am hoping some day soon we will start to put more money into research am allways asking myself if they will ever be a day where you walk into a shop and buy steroids freely and a pct made just for the aas user....wishfull thinking ?
zewiWell you can get Cancer form using Gear too. But yet they give gear to cancer people so they can keep weight.
You dont have to take nova thats your choice--IMO just take a lower dose--studies are from higer doses and for long periods of time not a little 4 week thing.., if you look around nova is used at a much lower dose now..
Week 1 PCT 12.5mg aromasin EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 2 PCT 12.5mg aromasin EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 3 PCT 6.25mg aromasin EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 4 PCT 6.25mg aromasin EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
my nolva have about 36-37 mg of Tamoxifen citrate per 20 mg nolva tablet the pack says so duz that meen i cnt do the standard dosing should i be halfing them ? A was gna do 20/20/10/10 but a duno wt the crk is as 20 mg = 37 mg tamoxifen citrate so with my tabs would it look more like this 37/37/18-5/18.5 being to high.Av done a shit load of research into AAS/AI but now am just trying to learn everything about pct doses and am stumped lol this may sound like a stupid fucking ? Lol.
Anonummm...what? theres a lot of numbers in there, looks like a math problem
Haha av got it sorted now it was just a moment of madness.
You can get cancer from anything.. They also use nolva to treat cancer LOL.. You can't win.. I will say I'd rather recover properly without growing some gyno and nolva will stop gyno in it's tracks before it can form during PCT
AnonX2. even sunlight and tanning beds can cause cancer, but i sure as hell am not gonna hide from it.
Yeah I'd be more afraid of tanning beds than nolva.. but I do both.. except it's the winter so im pale as hell
AnonThere's going be a side effect for everything, vitamin c has negative side effects. I would much rather deal with the carcinogenic properties then have a shitty PCT with no recovery. Everything is cancerous nowadays.. cell phones, microwaves, too much artificial sweetener. Nolva is probably the least cancerous thing I need to worry about in todays world.
I read that too, thats why I only wanted to do an AI plus clomid... but clearly the vets here think otherwise, unless they know something we don't >:] Please give some insight vets!
There's always Toremifene
^ definetly worth a look at
Quite nearly everything is carcinogenic.. If that's your main worry, then I guess stop eating food as well.