+ 1 HCG/PCT Questions.
Hey all,
I pretty much use this site for research and reading. But now I have some questions that need to be sorted out.
So I have some questions on what would be proper pct protocol for coming off of a test/mast cycle for 16 weeks should be. I am currently on week 9. I have been running my AI as needed. I have been running the Test E steady at 500mg a week, with Mast at 200mg a week for the last 10 weeks.
I have never incorporated HCG in my pct plan, so I am curious as to when this procedure should begin and for how long it should be run. I will also note that my balls have shrunk quite a bit and would like them to come back. Will the HCG help immediately with this?
Do I start HCG the last two weeks while on cycle? Or do I start it after my last test pin?
The consensus seems to be that I should be taking 250-600iu a week. But how long do I stay on the HCG for?
Also, since I have no prior use of HCG, how much do you get out of a bottle that states “5000iu” mixed with 2ml water? How long would that last if Im taking 500 to 600iu a week?
So I guess the main question is……… what would be the proper procedure of pct for a 16 week test cycle incorporating HCG/Clomid/Nolva?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
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In response to your q's to the lads below... think differently.
as opposed to: for how long?
If PCT is 2 primary compounds....
1. what happens at or after 6 weeks with clomid, does the same happen with tamox (hint: they are not equals)
2. what is happening with estrogens (hint: if i switch clomid off should i run tamox longer to mitigate estro spikes?)
I have to say.... it doesnt look like you are doing any research, just asking anonymous bro's on a forum for their protocols.
I appreciate the info a ton. I think you guys have all pointed me in the right direction and I feel a lot more confident.
Cool, hope it goes great for you man, all the best
basskiller89When I use HCG I generally use it 2 weeks after my last pin for a week. I start taking my nolva and clomid with the HCG. I'm not 100% this is correct, just what I end up doing. I know that I run nolva clomid for 8 weeks and then have bloods taken
5000iu / 2ml = 2500iu per 1ml
1/2ml = 1250iu
1/4ml = 625iu etc ..
So as i just asked JAYD the same question. There should be no problem running a PCT plan for 6weeks? Is there any overkill when i comes to running pct? Sorry if these come off like stupid questions.
Obviously the two major things i have learned from running this cycle is 1) get bloods, and 2) make sure you have everything on hand. I have read this numerous times, but i guess I just had to live it in order to learn.
basskiller89It's hard to say without blood work. I've always done 8 weeks to be on the safe side. I don't see any harm in running an extra couple weeks. If anything, it will be better for you in the long run. Find what works for you while following safe protocols with everything on hand
It is better than the alternative. Not ideal, just better.
JayD718Regarding the HCG, you really don't want want to go too high with your dosage. I've been using HCG for a while now, and I've found the best dosage to use, and this was recommended by a endocrinologist, is 200-250iu M-W-F. Anything above that dose and it really starts to raise your estradiol. The HCG should begin restoring the volume of your balls within a week or two, of starting your HCG regimen.
When mixing your 5000iu vial of HCG, an efficient method is to use a 5 or 10ml empty sterile vial, and combine your 5000iu of HCG and 4ml of Bacteriostatic water in the vial. This way, each 10 units on an insulin syringe would equal 125iu of HCG. Therefore, for a 250iu dose, you just need to draw 20 units into your syringe. By taking 200-250iu M-W-F, a 5000iu vial of HCG should last you roughly 6 weeks or so. Obviously, if you were to take 500iu per week, your 5000iu vial would last you 10 weeks. Technically, HCG is said to start degrading after 30 days in the fridge, but for 6 weeks or so you should be fine. If your balls are already shrunk, then I would start the HCG immediately, and run it straight through, to 10 days after your last injection of test enanthate.
In regards to your PCT, if you're going to use HCG, nolva, and clomid, and you're going to run the HCG from now until 10 days after your last injection of test enanthate, then you should begin your clomid and nolva, 2 weeks after your last injection of the test enanthate.
You should do good with a 4 week PCT, started 2 weeks after your last injection of the test enanthate. You can start the clomid at 150mg for the first three days, then 100mg for the remainder of the first week, then 100mg for the second week, 75mg for the third week, and 50mg for the fourth week. For the nolva, you can use 40mg per day for week 1, 40mg per day for week 2, 20mg per day for week 3, and 20mg for week 4. Since you were running a 16 week cycle, you may want to add a 5th week of 10mg of nolva, for your PCT.
So, good luck with everything, and of course you should check around with a few different sources, before choosing your PCT method. A PCT method that works good for me, may not work so well for you. You may have to tweak your own PCT method, and see what works for you.
Good stuff. Do you think even a 6 week PCT plan would be beneficial? Or would that just be overkill? I guess im just worried because of shutting down the body for so long.
6 wks pct for a test/mast cycle...probably overkill. If you were on a 19-nor then I would consider a 6 wk pct to be a necessity.
JayD718It could be. It all depends on your body. I don't think it would hurt you in any way. A lot of people go with a five week PCT, or various other PCT methods. Bloodwork is the only true way to tell. Also, like I said, everyone's body is different, and what works good for me, may work differently for you. You may have to tweak your on PCT method and timeframe. However, regarding your HCG protocol, there's no need to go above 500iu, like I read someone recommend. If 500iu can't accomplish the task, then 1000iu isn't going to make things better, only worse! I wouldn't go above 250iu! BLOODWORK, BLOODWORK, BLOODWORK!
so...
Depends. Do you want to manage the test spike as above with an ai, or do you want to allow test estro and prolactin to drop off and then use hcg without ai? The answer dictates timing, right?
Specifically for PCT purposes only, it should only be run long enough to prove your balls still work - this is only proven with blood tests. However, if like 99.9% of people you wont take the tests then use to reinflate OR into max 1 week of PCT if being very careful with estrogen.
NOTE: it is estrogen feedback at the brain that dictates whether the signalling goes to the balls to ramp up. Clomid blocks estro, so if you by using HCG or whatever, blow estro up during PCT.... once you cease clomid, there will be an auto negative feedback loop completed to stop making testo and sperm etc. Make sense? YOU MUST know what you are doing WRT estro during PCT.
Due to the half life of the peptide, you would require min 2x per week shots.So 250-500iu 3x per week is good on cycle. Lowest possible dose to reinflate then off (so as not to drive test estro prl up - your ai dose needs change etc etc etc). You may find 250x3 pw is perfect, or you may need 500x 2 or 500 x 3. Trial and see whats up for YOU.
However, PCT dose, I would suggest 500x3 per week (m w f-night) for 2-3 weeks, as a starting point. You could opt for 2k in the week, but you should be ok as a first timer with hcg on 5x3pw.
Please remember, hcg for pct is only to prove the balls work, thats all, then stop. Be very aware that HCG MAKES ESTROGEN and thereafter PROLACTIN rise!
I havent given you a protocol here. Just thoughts on timing, usage, on-cycle versus post (on cycle regular will reduce duraiton/amount for post too. Also remember fertility treatment is different and might require hmg or rFSH, so do check out my post on the history of 'PCT' and take these and the others' thoughts below and design your own protocol.
Feel free to sanity check here.
Please also consider post-PCT-therapy!!! (see my tips to boost testo naturally, for after cycle)
Oh, iu's per ml of water...? thats easy.... will leave that to you.
G'luck
"Please also consider post-PCT-therapy!!! (see my tips to boost testo naturally, for after cycle)"
Would it be possible for you to refer me to the article you did talking about this. I am very interested in reading about it and see your input in the matter.
He has a HCG post that is referenced and footnoted.Very easy to follow.Just look it up using the search feature and Giardap.You can also track his articles from his page.It is a very good read!
Read some of his other stuff as well.He thinks way outside of the box and is a research machine.
Extremely helpful thank you.
good work brother!
With test e I wait a few weeks to start clomid and nolva..I start Hcg the day after my last pin and do 500iu for10 days
What would be the frequency of injection? 500iu everyday? EOD?
500iu ed for10 days.. most Hcg comes in5000iu amps or vials..I know guys who do 1000 EOD also it's personal preference at that point..
Giardap has a very good read on this site about HCG use.Use the search feature and read it.
I personally just went through a fertility protocol after six years cruising.I started the hcg the week of my last shot.I did 1000 iu every other day first week, then went to 500iu eod after that.After three weeks in that dose I started clomid and tamoxifen.
Note :mine was done under the direction of a fertility doctor and may be extreme for standard pct.
5000 iu's would be 10 weeks at 500 iu's /week or
8 weeks at 600 it's/ week.