do you need to be a certain BF % before trying AAS?
Hey, i'm thinking about running my first cycle but i'm not entirely sure if i'm where i need to be, i'm going to get my blood work done next week.
but do i need to be a certain BF% and lean mass before even attempting to try AAS?
i'm reading alot of stickies now, and trying to absorb this massive amount of info just want some insight, thoughts, and advice.
i'm 24, 5'7, 180lbs, BF% i don't know (i'll let you all decide)
i've been trying to lose weight (i was a super fatty 200lbs during summer...dropped down 165lbs then felt really shitty and weak and bumped back up 180, i gain and lose weight rather easily as long as i track properly)
anyways advice?tips? or anything you think i should know...i want to improve my physique personally i don't like what i see and want to be better.
Thanks ahead of time.
here's a pic of me :
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Here's my .02, for what its worth....
No you don't have to be a certain BF%, but you need to get your diet down for what works for you.
You need to understand what substances do what. There's substances that help you gain size, gain strength, hold excess water.
You have to know your goals and set your cycle up accordingly.
So, my suggestion is to research first.
Make sure diet is good 2 go.
Then you can make decision.
First off 24 is a tad to young to for steroids, second like stated below you need a solid base of muscle and strength before using gear. Then your body will be used to carrying muscle so when you add a large amount of size on a cycle the probability of keeping it once you come off cycle is much higher. Even if you have a good base of muscle and strength, solid routine etc if your bf is high not only will the gear be less effective and chance of side effects be higher but you'll look like shit while on test. Test plus high bf equals puffy boofy mess. Most people say 15% but I only agree with that for starting a cutting cycle, to start a bulk IMO one should be around 10%, unless their goal is not bodybuilding aesthetics and their using it for sports, powerlifting strongman etc. but for a competitive or non competitive ebb starting a bulk to not look like shit on cycle and get the best results you should be around 10% to start.
yeah i finally understood after everyone telling me haha
what BF% should i am to start using by the way? right now after chating with everyone i'm planning on cutting to 150lbs then slow bulking to around 180lbs.
At 24 years old man you should have no problem stripping down that body fat
The lower the bodyfat the better. There are a multitude of reasons why ranging from nutrient partitioning to minimizing side effects. Just as important as bodyfat is the natural base of muscle you have built up. the better base you have built up the better chance you have of keeping the weight you gain on cycle instead of just balloning up and then loosing it all. The body is more accustomed to carrying a larger lean body mass and it won't be as big of a shock whereas otherwise the body tries even harder to get rid of the new lean mass and it is gone as fast as you gained it. Basically you know you are ready to run a cycle when people start questioning if you are on steroids. Until that happens you need to keep building up your base naturally.
oh damn...that crazy...
so steroids are pretty much a stepping stone once you're near your natty limit?
to be honest, i'm not trying to get HUGE i'm just trying to get lean with a decent amount of muscle...i can gain muscle somewhat quick but i gain fat easily aswell....which is my main issue...which is why i'm looking for AAS to help me...i everytime i lose weight i look like a smaller version of my old self... obviously slightly smaller and slightly lower BF...but Fat seems like it retains...i know a guy in the gym he told me to try DNP...but obv that's dangerous and i'm too scared to try that with everything i've heard about it.
so far everyone here is saying go natty and build more mass and try to keep BF % low...but thats my issue right now...
That is exactly what they should be used for.
Steroids are not fat burners. That is up to your diet. Steroids will not make up for a sub par diet.
should i be aiming to incorporate cardio then? or just be strict on my diet...i see alot of bodybuilders that don't do cardio what so ever so i was assuming it wasn't needed.
Sid, Bodybuilders do cardio, trust me theres a lot involved.
idk just what i heard from a bunch of shredded people o.0
i'm def going to incorporate it now after everyone telling me to here.
Sid, people are trying to fool you. I work with high level bodybuilding pros on the regular, meaning daily. They all do cardio, some more then others deeding on genetics. But they all do it.
Cardio + Weights + Diet= a good physique... When you get that, gear only makes it better. But without those basics gear won't be the right answer.
You seem like you have a good head on your shoulder.
Hats off to all the answers to help this guy.
i'm pretty gullible when it comes to fitness especially when someone extremely fit in my eyes says it : /
i'm glad there's a community like this that throws actual facts and experience at me so i can understand haha
btw, do you have any opinions on what type of cardio is good for Fat loss? i was thinking hitting a treadmill at 7.5 i read that it can burn roughly 1.1k cals an hour...idk if i can run for 1 hr straight tho...since my endurance is absolutely craptastic lol...
also what BF % do i look like? i believe someone stated they think i'm between 18-20%
When bulking, light cardio 2x/wk max just to keep a little cardiovascular health. When cutting, as much cardio as you can stomach.
Ahh okay i'll def keep that in mind
HIIT cardio when cutting? or light-mid?
What ever makes your pickle drip. I do an hour long spin class which is pretty intense.
oh wow
ok thank you! i'll get to it!
but i have a question how do you know exactly how much cardio you've burned? most of the machines give you a pretty broad guess...from what it seems...like if i run doing HIIT how would i know much i've burned? especially during a bulk it's hard to see where you're at if you do cardio o.0
I use one of those trackers you put on your wrist. There are some good ones that are pretty accurate. I'll burn between 750-850 cals during spin class.
oh wow okay i'll def get that thanks!
sorry for all the stupid questions...just you...trying to get there...lol
Sidsgothem, let me put this in easier words than ChickenBOF:
-Your BF is far too high to start with ASS. You need to strip down all the fat you have. At you hight, you should be not more than 150lbs, as he said, and this stable, no bouncing up.
-Use the time while dieting to 150lbs to get your nutrition in check. You have to have absolute control and be sure you can't get fat ever again, with or without training or ASS.
-Train hard and consider the time of diet your preparation time - a time you will prepare your muscles, tendons and mind for you plan to use ASS.
-read her on eroids about a pure beginners cycle and stick to it. Don't let yourself be tempted by posh looking advanced multi-compoud cycles in the hope for instant results.
I guess you will need ~1year to strip down 30lbs. This would be the absolute minimum time you have to invest in order to reach your goal of having a good physique (as I think nobody will convince you to build up naturally from 150 to 180, something you could manage with ~28, and then think again about ASS if you need to take it further)
ahh i see thank you for elaborating
btw, by "you have to have absolute control and be sure you can't get fat ever again, with or without training or ASS." you just mean have control over your diet correct?
i can try to go natural like you're saying til i get around 180 from 150...but is there a reason to go natty during that time over not?
Yes, absolute control over your diet. It has to feel natural to be able to control sweets, junk and fatty foods without feeling bad.
As I understand, the main reason to build up muscles for a while natural is, because this works reasonably fast without ASS as a beginner who is still below the genetic maximum.
Then, also crucial, ASS only work good when combined with a perfect diet and some solid weightlifting experience. Without those two, ASS do still "work", but this to such a low degree that you will likely not see satisfactory results, driving you step by step towards ASS abuse with high dosages and orals. And in the end, despite all the risk, many who start without a solid basis never reach a good physique.
ahhh i see makes sense you're just saying if i don't get leaner with more muscle mass i won't see good results even if i use...and in turn would lead to steroid abuse.
makes sense
i'm just having difficulty seeing progress when i get down to around 160s...my lifts feel super weak if not a struggle and i barely see any gains around that weight..but maybe i'm rushing i'll try take it more serious this time i'll cut down to 150-160s again and maybe lift on a deficit during that time to get lean and eventually once lean do a slow bulk and hopefully...see some gains.
should i avoid things like DNP to promote fat loss? my friend/gym partner uses it and it clearly works...but idk i heard some crazy things about it.
I would do it this way: trim down to 150lbs, stay there for a while until you get a sense of how much you need to eat to stay at 150. For that, track you daily calories using one of the many apps around and weigh youself in the morning. Train as usual, and don't pay much attention to the weights you lift. Just work on your technique and seek to have soreness next day. Then, when you know how much kcal you need to maintain 150lbs, let say 2000kcal, increase this to 2150 for next two weeks, train and observe results. If you don't have the feeling of getting fat, go to 2300kcal for the next following two weeks, then 2450, and so forth. I guess in the end you will not neet much more than 3000kcal/day to reach 180lbs, and it will take you ~1.5 months to get from 2000 to 3000. This slow increase is mandatory in order to allow your body to adapt to a higher consumption after a long period of dieting. A fast increase will just make you fat again. This is it...
DNP is a clear no. Disregarding now the health issues, this would be exactly that kind of shortcut which will leave you without any experience to control your diet. And to repeat, without mastering your nutrition (and training) you will not have much benefit later from ASS.
Give yourself some time and you will reach your goals.
ahh some great feedback!
thank you i'll try to make some changes and drop down to 150 and try to maintain then do a slow bulk like you stated.
seems like i'm expecting results relatively quick, thats my issue i suppose.
i'll give it much more time now and see how it goes!
thank you!
You're 24 goodbye
is there an age limit or something? please elaborate?
most people i see who are juicing are my age or near it...i don't see a point of using past my 20s tbh....
You're too young to be using AAS. This is serious stuff. Getting bloods drawn is fine though. Stay here, there is so much to learn from so many experienced members. Seriously though, honest advice would be to keep it natural, eat and train like a machine for another couple years at least. You'll be so much happier if you do, trust me, it's what I did and I'm so happy I waited an extra few years.
What's your diet like?
What's your training regiment like?
i should wait huh?
i thought it would be okay to begin cycling once you know you're done growing (my doc told me during my last check up that i should be completely done growing by 24, idk if he was just BSing me to get out but thats what he told me.) which is why i held off til now to even think about AAS.
diet...i'm pretty strict on cuts...i usually go for a keto based diet and keep a caloric deficit and increase the deficit slowly as it works well for me since i haven't had any keto sides like some people get, and bulking i just eat w.e as long as my macro's are met tbh.
Training - i workout about 5 times a week right now(recently just started working out 5 times a week though, i usually only go twice a week a bit hard to push time into working out with work/school/internships, but i finished my internship so that shaves off like 6hrs off my day) i think i have reasonable splits i got them from bodybuilding forums users and advice/free routines. but no cardio so far...i have literally zero endurance right now in terms of cardio.
why do you say i'd be happier if i train like a machine for another couple of years? not trying to argue just wondering, you clearly have experience and saying that for a reason.
I began researching AAS when I was 20, didn't use until I was 26, but really wanted to at your age.
Here's a BF% comparison chart. https://postimg.org/image/4hpaf9zuv/
I'd say that puts you around 18-20BF%. So I'd say you're carrying around 36lbs of BF. Subtract the 36lbs from your current weight, and you're closer to 150lbs of lean muscle.
Now if a guy weight 220lbs or something up there, and have a BF% closer to yours, there's a much better chance that guy has build up a much more solid base under the excess fat. He could probably naturally cut down to around 200lbs, then be in perfect shape for a cycle.
A few of these compounds were created for the extremely sick/weak; burn victims, AIDS patients and such, and thus these few compounds can build real muscle tissue, but the majority were created with the direct purpose of enhancing the performance of athletes. These are people who are already in peak physical shape, and are needing that extra bump to win the title/championship.
wait i'm confused...are you saying i need to be around 220lbs before a cut with the same BF% before i consider cycling?! remember i'm 5'7....if i were anything near 200lbs at around 18-20% BF i'd look pretty damn juiced...or atleast i think i'd look huge....
No, no. I was just using someone with that weight as an example. Someone who had been training for a while, had gotten to a decent average weight, but felt their BF% was too high before beginning. Chances are, after they completed a natural cutting cycle, and lost the fat they had, there'd still be a solid base to work with.
If you cut the fat, you're closer to 150lbs, and I don't feel this is a strong enough base.
But again. 24 is not good.