+ 1 Toxicity Question
Hello everyone. I have a question regarding liver toxicity and other negative sides that "aren't worth the risk". I've been on Test C for nearly two decades with about a year off in the middle. I have run two small test cycles in the past between 400-500 mgs a week. I toyed around with adding a small amount of Tren for a couple of weeks the first cycle, and uses dbol for a couple weeks on the second cycle. The tren was outrageous even at microscopic doses. I honestly thought I'd end up in jail if I didn't stop it because the rage was insane. I will say I liked it as long as I had the right outlets for the energy if you know what I mean.
Fast forward... I keep trying to find something to add to my HRT, or to run as a small cycle, that isn't harmful to my liver. I don't have major issues, but I also don't have a perfect liver either. I'd prefer to steer clear of anything that is going to negatively impact it.
What compounds besides Test meet this criteria? I'm actually open to help with muscle growth or cutting or both.
Thanks in advance!
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Cycle then run primo or dhb. Both are mellow and will change your appearance nicely with solid diet plan.
You want to be safer on the liver, then you have to stay away from the 17-alpha alkylated orals if you want to use orals. This pretty much leaves you with provi and primo acetate. Those really should have no impact on liver. Any methylated oral is going to impact the liver, no way around it, just depends on how significantly you want to impact it.
Var is often touted as a safe or mild oral. Really it is not IMO. Therapeutic doses of anavar are safe, but to really have any significant muscle building effects we are not talking about taking therapeutic doses. Prescription var comes in 2.5mg tabs. That is our therapeutic dose for the most part. So in the medical world var is a safe or mild oral. Above 20mg real impacts to liver start to happen. Now in the realm of bodybuilding we are talking about doses around 50mg to maximize muscle building. This is no longer a safe dose. This dose puts my liver values in the 70's range but makes my head spin when looking at how it flips my lipids. Most ignore lipids when using orals but they shouldn't, especially with var and win, a couple of the worst out there. If taking var you should also be taking a statin drug to keep lipids manageable. Ironically the deal with Anavar is that what makes it safe also makes it ineffective and once it becomes effective, it now is not very safe.
Your safest bets on liver: Provi (first choice) Primo ace (but might as well just pin primo instead of wasting money on the orals)
Willing to take the risk on liver: Tbol (provi on steroids), Anavar (watch lipids)
If you are really concerned about your liver though, I would just stick with the oils. Test is always best.
Yea var above 20mg causes liver enzymes to rise and causes also a mean serum HDL reduction of 30%. Pretty sure lower doses than 20mg also reduce HDL too.
Thank you. I believe I've seen Prov in oil (injectable) on my sources site. Wouldn't this be even safer?
By default, I'm typically a no on any orals due to possible liver issues.
Injectable orals are not safer on the liver, that is a misconception. They all end up going through the liver to get processed. Just stick with oral provi. That is tried and true and the easiest route.
10-4
I really appreciate everyone's input!
It's nice to see you asking questions especially in regards to your long-term healthy and safety
+1
I think the best combination with Test only cycle is one, that lots of testosterone doesn't equate to free testosterone in the body. So Proviron would really help free up testosterone to more adequate levels to accomplish more for being on TRT. Sticking with injectables don't go for Tren again it has toxicity written all over it. Something like Masteron is similar to Proviron in the way it helps testosterone shine better but also keeps you drier, tighter whether bulking or cutting, and makes your libido skyrocket with a feeling of well-being.
Now orals dbol is way to rough as plenty of people liver enzymes show on blood work. Interesting enough Anavar being a 17-alpha-alkylated anabolic steroid, Anavar is liver toxic. But it’s not toxic enough to give you nightmares. It might make your liver values appear all over the place. But skewed liver values do not necessarily indicate liver damage. What’s funny is that Anavar has been used to treat alcohol-induced liver damage at doses exceeding 80mg/ED. It not as bad as you think overall, probably safer than Ibuprofen. Also for some reason it works VERY well combined with Proviron. Suitable for a quick 20-30 day cycle you'll have strength, aggression, and it shreds visceral fat like no other. Either way, be prudent, take your ancillaries. Your TUDCA, ALA and N2guard should be taken throughout the cycle and stay off alcohol. You should be fine.
I've been taking TUDCA as of a few days ago. I've been taking ALA and about half of the items in the N2G you recommended. Regardless, I just bought two bottles of N2G to be safe.
If I were to simply want to "add" Proviron to my HRT, do you have a recommended dosage per week to try? The thought of more free Test sounds good.
Proviron helps boost testosterone your injecting because, although it's considered a weak steroid it binds to SHBG, which will increase your free testosterone levels. It's taken daily because of this reason. 50mg per day and it's better to split the dose to 25mg twice a day spaced out 10-12hrs if possible. This keeps it circulating in your system. You can run it up to 6-10 weeks while on TRT. Take a break after for about 3-4 weeks.
Thank you. I'm leaning heavily on trying Prov as you and others here have stated along with my normal HRT. Thinking about swapping from Test C to Test E though. I don't have a good reason other than curious. I've been pinning E3.5D at roughly 120mgs of Test C. Depending on how well the Prov makes me feel, I might even lower the Test amount. I feel like I am a little high for prolonged HRT.
Provi definitely a good choice. Var isn't to bad on the liver but probably one of the worst in terms of flipping your lipids around. Tradeoffs with everything. A little easier on the liver but trashes lipids and can beat up kidneys a bit. We all just have to pick our poison and live with it.
Yes correct but remember even Proviron flips lipid levels around as it decreases HDL, and increases LDL levels. Dietary intake is most important in the choices of food you ingest.
What I find is anything that lowers estrogen will indeed have some negative effect on lipid levels and provi is no exception like you mentioned. While it frees up testosterone, being dht derived it affects estrogen.
EDIT...now have I seen worse than proviron? Yep. No doubt
I tried every diet trick in the book to bring my lipids back in line. Even stopped eating bacon and they got worse
I think there is a point in time when age finally becomes the overriding factor.
It's been a minute for you now hasn't it. Excellent post as always brotha. And you sure are right. Anavar and proviron have some amazing synergistic effects
But if you look at it alot of studies do use high dosages with orals that we may consider toxic. I remember seeing one study long ago that involved women that were being given pretty high dosages of a harsh oral. Some of those studies have me scratching my head.
Thank you for all that. I'll take a look at this stuff tomorrow after some sleep.
Ok so we agree on that, especially freeing up more testosterone. So what I understood anavar is more involved with kidneys than liver as far as its metabolism, correct me if I'm wrong though. It could be a little confusing. And as far as liver protection, the key to all of it is the bodies most powerful antioxidant called Glutathione. All steroids especially orals tend to deplete this antioxidant.
You're absolutely correct brother! Yup, kidney esp if you have issues Anavar can cause some serious problems, on the liver tho it's tolerable and considered a mild steroid. I was just spewing some liver aids but again Glutathione is key as you stated. People take glutathione for aging, alcohol use disorder, liver disease, heart disease, and many other conditions.
Yeah only thing is orally it has poor bioavailability but you're right.
( Glutathione)
Well glad you aren't being so damn shy anymore. That ain't right lol
Do you know anywhere that sells pinnable glutathione? I have the powder for another project that I was working on but I dont take it as its so poorly biavailable. Wondering if you knew where to get it
Good question. I don't know of anyone who sells inj Glutathione. But if I find someone I'll let you know.
There is liposomal glutathione available from Renue By Science. It is encased in in a liposome (fat) so it passes through the liver without being destroyed which increases the bioavailability of it a bit. Also NAC is a precursor to glutathione & is taken by many for just this purpose (including me)
Im sure this is an oversimplification, but would you say that taking NAC is probably fulfilling the glutathione needs?
Nahh not really but NAC helps alot.
You know I ain't shy lol, just busy unfortunately. Thanks for tagging me on this post, it's great to catch up with you bro
Same here. Take care
@IronMind....come get some of this. Now don't be shy! Come on now, come on!
You don't have a perfect liver. Which means....alcohol,... I would be WAY MORE worried "toxicity wise" of what society is doing. Smoking, drinking, fast food, zero physical activities.
Nandrolone (deca) and methonolone (primo) are the safest to go beside testosterone.
I do agree that the world is full of garbage, and pretty much anything you put in your mouth anymore is poison. It's just hard to know how to compare the poisons. Haha.
I did quit regular drinking several months ago, but do have a beer or two here and there. I'm still probably healing from the gallons of tequila I've consumed over the years though. I'll try to be more mindful about it moving forward.
There you go ! Now I see you have the good attitude. Look, we ALL want to be healthy. We should ALL be very honest toward ourself and not just point fingers ''oh steroids are bad'' when you know deep inside you, you're doing some else way worse. When IFBB PRO Champions say ''no stone unturned'' they mean it !! Beside there ''supplements'' there is absolutely ZERO poison in their life.
''Normal'' people are eating poison everyday. They stop at mc donald, tim horton, hot dog, whatever and they call it ''food''. They see us, bodybuilder with chicken/rice and are like ''oh can't you eat, normal, like everybody''.
Sorry about being harsh, not answering the question but I love to look deep in the REAL root of the issue. That's how you solve the problem. It's a painfull process, it's tough but it's really worth it. You can take of your health my friend.
I wish I could give 4 thumbs up.
HGH brother. Nothing else can beat it in my opinion when it comes to adding something beneficial to TRT. I want to specify using pharma HGH as well. Like driving a Ferrari to a Focus when it comes to comparing it to Generics
^^this
I actually have taking this, but I can't take it more than once or twice a month. I bought a 10 pack a while back. I tried something like 4mgs maybe? each injection. I feel like it definitely works, but gives me carpal tunnel pretty badly. I wished it didn't because this is probably what I'd do. I'm almost certain to have the side effects of anything. That's why I'm trying to figure out if there is anything else I can try that isn't going to wreck my body.
4mgs a day is a lot a day, if you have the money by all means but I get nasty pain in my wrists when I get that high. I’m good with like 1-2mgs at the most a day. Low dose Var or Primo can work too. I had Hep C and got it cured so I know how important it is to you.
Yeah, I think 4 is what I started with. I want to say I was doing that EOD, but a lot has happened over the last couple years. My memory isn't the best. I myself backed down to 2mgs. I still had issues, but it wasn't as bad. I still have a few vials left. Maybe I'll try 1mg to see how that goes. It does seem like the healthier choice compared to everything else.
He commented to me that he was just agreeing with you about mgs. But yeah it's 4 IU, not 4 mgs. You're good man.
You meant IU right?
Edit...I think 1mg is 2 or 3 IU.
A ten bottle kit of the GH I’m running consists of 37mg per kit/ 3.7mg per bottle, So I think that makes .37mg per iu
Ok so that's right. I just figured 4 mg wasn't 4 iu.
So from what you say 4 iu would be more like 1.5 mg. Damn. Thanks.
Hell, at this point... I'd have to find my notes to figure out the dilution and amount.
Proviron is a new favorite for me. Libido through the roof. I’m sure it does some other shit too, LOL
Damn I hit the wrong like. Anyways that's probably the best answer I've heard.
Anavar. Also take some liver support.
Tbh... every time I read about sides on this....I bail out.
I'd say primobolan but it is expensive and it will lower estrogen for most people.
I forgot to add, I did take Primo about a year ago. I guess I've done more than two cycles now that I think about it. Or, the Tren and dbol were at the end of the same cycle. I can't remember.
I probably didn't use enough primo. It was. Somewhere between 300-400 a week. It is definitely expensive, and I had no noticable gains. Since is was supposedly slightly toxic, I decided it wasn't worth it.