posted Wed, 12/13/2017 - 10:36
8578
Tips when you get sick—help please
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Been battling this damn cold a couple weeks now. To say it’s been a setback is an understatement!
What do you guys do for cold prevention?
What do you guys usually do once sick? My appetite suffers but I think that is due to not training as heavy/intense.
Are you guys backing off of training a little or a lot?
Symptoms are runny nose, cough, fever on/off, body aches, and a sore throat.
Thanks
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I highly recommend against supplementing with vitamin C under any circumstance. Doctors have been warning against taking high amounts of antioxidants for years. The jury is out whether it harms your health conclusively, but there’s certainly no proof that it helps, either. Evidence even shows that vitamin C supplementation can slow muscle and strength gains by disrupting oxidative cleavage of muscle tissue—catabolism in other words—thereby retarding the anabolic signal that elicits hypertrophy. If you’re eating to gain muscle, your immune system is already supercharged from all the nutrients you’re eating in your diet. If you get sick you get sick, and no supplement on the face of the earth will change that. Heal up and wait it out.
Yes, I fully fell under the spell of broscience in days past that taking 1,000 mgs plus of vitamin C a day was good for cutting, but once I read the multitude of studies where vitamin C supplementation was linked to decreased muscle gain, it turned me off real quick.
Michael Ristow, Kim Zarse, Andreas Oberbach, Nora Klöting, Marc Birringer, Michael Kiehntopf, Michael Stumvoll, C. Ronald Kahn, and Matthias Blüher, “Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise in humans,” Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2009 May 26; 106(21): 8665–8670. Published online 2009 May 11. doi: 10.1073/pnas.0903485106 PMCID: PMC2680430.
Gomez-Cabrera MC, Salvador-Pascual A, Cabo H, Ferrando B, Viña J. “Redox modulation of mitochondriogenesis in exercise. Does antioxidant supplementation blunt the benefits of exercise training?” Free Radic Biol Med. 2015 Apr 15. pii: S0891-5849(15)00168-9. doi: 10.1016/j.freeradbiomed.2015.04.006.
Peternelj TT, Coombes JS. “Antioxidant supplementation during exercise training: beneficial or detrimental?” Sports Med. 2011 Dec 1;41(12):1043-69. doi: 10.2165/11594400-000000000-00000.
Gomez-Cabrera MC, Domenech E, Romagnoli M, et al. “Oral administration of vitamin C decreases muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and hampers training-induced adaptations in endurance performance.” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2008;87(1):142–149.
Michalis G. Nikolaidis, Chad M. Kerksick, Manfred Lamprecht, and Steven R. McAnulty “Does Vitamin C and E Supplementation Impair the Favorable Adaptations of Regular Exercise?" Oxid Med Cell Longev. 2012; 2012: 707941. Published online 2012 Aug 13. doi: 10.1155/2012/707941 PMCID: PMC3425865
I don't know if Vit C helps with cutting but it works sa great diuretic when dropping water for a comp. 5-10g daily for 5-7 days will make you dry as a bone. That is the only time I have ever used it during cutting. I don't think it helps with burning fat which is what I think of when cutting.
I haven't read through all those studies but I think the benefits of anti-oxidants and scavenging free radicals is going to provide an overall net benefit for the body. Is green tea going to be thrown in the same ring as vit c with it benefits of anti-oxidants? You have brought up some interesting points to think about but I think the amount of tissue we break down from weight training probably far outshadows any blunting effects that Vit C may have.
This is a fair point. My diet—most of our diets I would think—is fortified with a wide array of antioxidants as is. Mine that I consume daily include: green tea, black coffee, blueberries, and non-alkalized cocoa, all antioxidant powerhouses. That’s not even counting all the cruciferous veggies I eat in large amounts. I feel like I’m almost overdoing it on the antioxidants with whole foods, so why would I pay to add more antioxidants on top of it while perfectly healthy?
You are a far more talented researcher than this post suggests.
Assuming the OP isn't taking the lid off the petri dish in his gym at the moment; hypertrophy and/or strength gainz become irrelevant, in the sense that his general health and recovery are of greatest importance.
Vitamin c at high doses has been studied in vitro, in vivo, animal trials, clinical trials, for 40+ years, with its beneficial effects having been very well documented. You should look into the (admittedly dose dependant ) benefits it gives as an ao, on inflammation, its analgesic effects, its effects on cold reduction amongst physically active adults, its effects on cold duration, on cancers, on pain, on endurance etc. etc. (I mention the cancer trials research only because the ways in which vit c mediates its various benefits must be considered outside of the sole context of the 'immune system' but also at cellular level in a variety of systems and also across a range of illnesses and infections).
Advanced broscience is to hear someone say; vitamin c stunts hypertrophy gains, to then seek out articles/studies that look only at 1 side of the coin, in support, and to completely ignore other evidence. Don't you think?
To advise against vitamin c supplementation to a man with a cold... is to say 40+ years of documented evidence of its benefits... for the most studied common cold, is all a big lie!
You may find some of the publications coming from Finland in the past year of interest.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000980.pub4/full
If you can get your hands on research grade vitamin c then yes an 8% decrease in cold length can be had.
RustyhookerResearch grade? As in fda tested?
quote---- 'In adults the duration of colds was reduced by 8% (3% to 12%) and in children by 14% (7% to 21%). In children, 1 to 2 g/day vitamin C shortened colds by 18%. The severity of colds was also reduced by regular vitamin C administration
The severity reduced by regular vit c administration. Excellent!
Glad you all brought this to my attention. I was concerned with the research based on vitamin C’s affect on training and recovery, but hadn’t done my homework on it as a cold remedy. I’ll amend my stance to: it’s fine to help get over a cold but, based on all the information we have, I still can’t recommend it while healthy and training full bore.
RustyhookerIf you have cited proofs of vit c causing growth to halt, id like to read your forum. Everything ive read is vit c is a daily need. Might be a fun debate
There’s really nothing to debate. It is a daily need. But the way we eat as either bodybuilders or strength athletes or just people trying to be fit ensures we get more than enough vitamin C in our diets. Just one serving of broccoli more than doubles our daily needs. It’s so easy to get enough through food it’s a joke. The research shows vitamin C supplmementation can be harmful to gains and possibly health due to the high amount of antioxidants interfering with muscle protein oxidation (not a good thing, since breakdown of muscle proteins is the stimulus for anabolism). This has been directly shown through controlled studies. I cited 5 separate studies in my long post above. You can find the abstracts if you google the part in parentheses for each.
The research also suggests that unlike macronutrients, athletes don’t have significantly “higher needs” than average people as far as micronutrients are concerned—with the obvious exception of electrolytes due to perspiration, but a construction worker who doesn’t even lift may also require extra electrolytes. So—if you’ll pardon the pun—take that with a grain of salt.
It’s a quote from the data gathering article I listed. If the average cold last 7 days (rough guess here), an 8% reduction in length is 13 hours or so.
I wish they had a way of quantifying a reduction in severity though as that’s a very ambiguous statement.
Eh something like that. Highly regulated and tested for purity, very expensive as you can see in my previous link. These are what’s used in clinical studies. Unfortunately we the consumer are stuck with OTC options that only have a 4% chance of even containing traces of the marketed supplement, not very good odds imo.
RustyhookerOf vitamin c? I buy usp certified. Plus, just eat a lemon if needing it additional. Its high in C.
Ive not heard of any underdosed vit c.
USP unfortunately doesn’t mean much these days. I think 2-3 years ago the NY Attorney General pulled every single supplement off of Walmart and Targets shelves and 96% tested out as having zero active ingredient of what was listed on the label, many of them USP or GMP certified. I posted it a couple times on here but I can find it again if you want?
I’ve long been a fan of getting nutrients via consumption of real food as I strongly believe the supplement scene is a big scam meant to trim the wool from the sheep. I’ve also believed for a long time that if you want true performance enhancement use things that are regulated, tested and have a long history of documented effects (pharmaceutical).
RustyhookerNothing will ever replace food. Thats why theyre called suppliments. However, i think vitamin c or antioxidants stopping muscle growth is hogwash. Same type of hogwash as folks pulling away from children being immunized.
The forum was based on dude with cold/flu. The citations posted was showing a small but good influence on assisting the cold. And declaring that supplimentation on the regular is even better.
As far as stopping growth? Taking anything in excess will kill you. B vitamins wont be absorbed without c.
The USP issue was a chaotic clusterfuck and damn sad on what is claimed. It wasnt all brands of all chems. The brands on the list were the fly by night brands. Hopefully after that announcement the good companies tightened up on standards. Kinda like us posting bloods and forcing gear to be consistant. I remember when eroids started and noone posted bloods. Everything was fyre!! Then bloods showed that most ugl at the time was severely underdosed garbage.
Ermagawd!!! Why’d you have to open the immunization can of worms????!!!!?!?!? I have strong feelings about that but it I’m going to stay on track with the thread.
As for vitamin C effects on muscle growth: I have no opinion because I am 100% ignorant of the topic and it’s not on my current interest list. Whenever I see something about how xxx supplement, vitamin, mineral etc.. effects (affects?) muscle growth I don’t worry about it too much. If I’m eating right, sleeping great and training hard then I’m going to accomplish my goals. Add in AAS and the negative impacts from said item will negligible.
If you have a supplement company you like and everything else in order then go for it. I personally think they’re overrated in most cases and give many people a false sense of security.
As for your post below, yes that’s the price. There’s different reagent grades available that are far more affordable though.
RustyhookerAwesome time chatting with you two. Just like the banter of old friends.
High five!
Loads of info in here
Vit C and antioxidants are great for you!
If you eat a healthy, balanced diet, supplementing vitamin C is taking it in excess. That’s the whole point. It’s not hogwash, and you’re roundabout agreeing with me and the science on the issue. Did you read the studies? They’re not exactly inconclusive. They’re very black and white, actually. The decrease in strength and hypertrophy was actually clinically significant. Take a look.
RustyhookerFunny thing is while running 500mgam and 500mg pm of vitamin c was while making many PR's . I mix the mega b-stress pack in there of course, being water soluble. Im not the strongest dude on here but 390 x 16 reps, decline had the entire gym stop lifting just to watch. So, not everyone fits into the box. Many experiments in clinicals have flaws and slants.
The only set back i could see in overdosing vit c is water loss at the cellular level. Which for anyone whos taken dbol see the strength in cellular load.
Fun debate bro...enjoyed it a lot
Yeah it’s all good. At least it’s not a complete ripoff like BCAAs. I doubt it affects people on gear as much. Sure as shit all those clinical trials were done with natty trainees. I get hella vita C in my diet as it is, but I’m happy to see there’s research supporting it reducing cold lengths. Be nice to have on hand.
RustyhookerBcaa costs are insane. Definitly easy food choices.
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?interface=All&term=Vitamin%2...
RustyhookerAm i reading correctly? My phones acting odd. 338 dollars for ascorbic acid? Puff puff pass.... limes, lemons and oranges. Lol
It’s a cold. I’m not telling anyone not to get chemotherapy for cancer or anything. Colds run their course and that’s it. It’s not life or death, assuming there’s no autoimmune disorders present or any further complications. Making mountains out of molehills, here.
Rest > vitamin C. Any day.
Wow this site blows my mind so much information
I feel for you bud, I just got over pretty much same shit, just more sore throat and lots of coughing up lung butter!
I took a few days off until I felt a little better and so I didn’t spread my germs, but 2-weeks later I’m fine, I never take anything for that stuff cause it never does anything for me
First, hope you feel better soon
A per training, you really have to be the judge. Mind you no one wants to see a sick person sneezing all over the weights in the gym. Sometimes backing off is the best course.
I know its going to sound a bit old marmish, but homemade chicken soup does work wonders. Especially if you are using a collagen rich broth with lots of fresh veggies.
As per supplementation, I personally utilize vitamin injectables. I always have on hand B-12, B-complex, and C . They really add a boost when you are feeling sick and beat up.
Thanks for the kind words bro
RustyhookerEmergenC and sweat it out. Keep body warm.
Keep it simple.. That's all I did..3 days later in good
Good advice...on the left coast the weather isn’t extremely cold so I’m always accustomed to shorts, t’s, etc. after work/gym etc. I need to bundle up cause it’s been getting colder; think it dipped under 40 this week one night.
RustyhookerThink of your natural responce to attack a virus. It raises body temp up a degree or maybe 2. So i do like keeping it simple. The sauna on a regular basis post workout kept me cold/flu free for a few years. Changed gyms and bleh. Lol. Sidenote.... sauna is also great for bloodflow. So you finish lifting your ass off and then get 15mins in sauna, the bloodflow continues due to heat and vasodialation. I always seemed to feel less sore the next day. Maybe a placebo?
I feel the same in regards to the sauna and recovery. I’m pretty sure there’s some new interesting research being done on heat and cold shock proteins produced in the body during extreme temperature exposures and whether they can be used to benefit us.
zinc lozenges. we don´t exactly know how they work but it is presumed that Zn2+ inhibits viral entry into your respiratory epithelia directly. but the dosages have to be 50-100mg zinc per day for a week or so. good luck buddy
My training partner swears by zinc
Have u had a flu shot this year?
Fever daily?
Throat sore is it swollen, is it painful to swallow?
Lots of great tips here. Are your lungs weezing when you breathe out? If it doesn't stop soon probally a bacterial infection so go to the doctors. Viruses should not last that long typically. Let us know and read these comments. Rest and get better buddy
No flu shot, fever has come and gone. Tough to say on the swollen throat, not really painful to swallow unless I’m really dehydrated. Lungs a little wheezy though, contemplating going to the dr’s tonight. Have held off bc I’m not a fan of antibiotics or were sure they could do much other than what has been sugg’d online. Thanks for your service brother
take airborn
You wont get rid of the cold until body does the biz itself, but in terms of conditioning the body to be best placed to fight; overdose on green cruciferous veg. I am making a broccoli spinach cabbage broth every day, real thick blended stock/salted) and drink 3 doses a day.
I Also dose with niacin and vit c (i do 3x1k nicitonic acid and 3x1k vit c). The combo sets the body up to fight but you also flush cells with niacin and use vit c as anti-ox.
As you are going to load on fluids and sweat the bejaysus out of yourself; hydrate with coconut water (not c milk), keep the electrolyte balance right.
Get well soon!
I love coconut water!
Protocol sounds good; guessing you stay healthy with that veggie concoction. Thanks sir
Thank you; how’s that protocol usually work for you when sick? You’re right about no gym but it’s tough man!
Working fine, after a few days I'm fit again. Yes I hate it too missing a workout but better to miss a few than a lot cause a sick, tired and weakened feeling
Boom! Great advice. +1
That's what I'm talking about bro I'm sick right now trying to get rid of it I got all his symptoms bit I also hack shit up in the morning. My spleen was removed in January and worried that it will get worse cause I don't want to go to the hospital for a couple days being poked with needles multiple times a day
AnonYou should stop training all together until you are healthy and most likely your workouts are not beneficial, and if you're training in a public gym it's just going to spread and eventually come right back to you. It's tough but you just gotta rest man. Fever and body aches sound like you have more than a cold.
Right on, appreciate it bro—staying out completely is tough! You’re probably right...