+ 13 pct all wrong?
I would like the community to take a look at these links and hear what everyone has to say. The first link is to a pct calculator which shows that we should really be starting are pct way later than we are.
http://pct.befit4free.net/
Upon some research I found a couple more links provided by cbbur that has Dr. Scally thoughts.
http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-post-cycle-therapy/your-opinion-m...
http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-post-cycle-therapy/comprehensive-...
CBBur great post and very interesting and thank u for the time to post these I don't want karma for this cause I don't want to parrots any info. I feel like this is a very real question we need to ask the community as I feel your pct is the most important part of any cycle.
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Will do
I started taken mine around same time
Lol I don't even wanna post next to vike he just makes me look dumb just sit back and read
Dont be silly bro..... difference here is i have 34yrs dealing with roids and a bunch of guys and gals who i train back home from which i draw a lot of knowledge with the stacks i have them running as well as myself and Suze........... shit Suze runs bigger stacks than anything advertised on here so i must be on point to keep her safe and healthy
All I can say if u could go back in time and lead the Vikings with all your knowledge u would of conquered the world really would be Viking power lol. U would of made a super army of pissed of Vikings damn
Thanks bro........... humbled again
i need to chill this thread got me dizzy lol
Hell no I take advantage of his time while he's here. No suck thing as dumb questions, but yea I've creeped on many threads I have no experience with just for the learning aspect.
I've sit back just soaking up all this info u are an encyclopedia simply amazing. Why creatine
Because it keeps the size on bro especially water which is what gives us the power we need to keep blasting heavy weights to preserve hard built muscle mass........... no water = less strength = pissed gym off gym rat= dude says fuck PCT and starts to stay on forever with zippo knowledge and ends up with a totally fucked HPTA or hospitalised in worst case scenario with a liquid liver,heart problems etc etc etc............. Creatine staves off that lethargic PCT feeling and keeps us on the upward curve.
Wow I'm goin to cycle soon I definitely will try this next time. I've never heard anyone say creatine during pct. Wow this thread helped so much. Thanks for the info on this thread to u and everyone
Creatine has always been a staple of my pct also. Start loading it the last week of the cycle just like vike said to keep the water on.
Always learning this is by far the best site ever
I agree, 4 weeks is not set in stone, its just a suggestion. Some guys might only need 3 while others need 8. Have to judge it by how you feel. If this really is the case test levels are still high for another week or two that means the nolva/clomid are not actually doing anything until the 3rd week of pct, which essentially means these 4 week pcts starting 2 weeks post injection are only really 2 weeks long. Which is definitely to short IMO. But in the past I've managed to keep all but the water I gained, and my test levels have received to baseline 2 months after my last injection, 1 month after the completion of pct. So idk, our normal protocol has worked in the past but if we can make it work even better and faster I'm all for it. Thats what this is all about right. I mean years ago they didnt even have pct. Now we do which makes recovery easier, but if we can improve it further then thats awesome.
I use this thing all the time just to see where my levels will build to on certain doses and how long it takes them to reach peak plasma levels. And ya according to this thing were all wrong regarding pct timing. When i was running 750mgs of test i believe it wanted me to wait around 25 days before i started pct which goes against what most of us believe. I ended up tapering with prop so I could go into pct sooner but Im kinda thinking that its right. I mean I usually feel pretty good my first week or 2 of pct, and it must be because my levels of test are still high and have not crashed yet. I won't be using long esters again for like a year and a half just because I have so much prop but I think on my next test e cycle whenever that is I'm gonna wait about 3 weeks before starting pct.
Good post, and I like the first link, I've been playing around with it like I have been roidcalc. There is a "new" guy here who is well versed in PCT that hopefully will drop in an share his thoughts. I'm curious to see some responses myself.
You're getting a +1 anyhow. PCT is far to often overlooked.
Give it to cbbur excellent links he had. I just think for the betterment of the community we need to address these issues. Ya that first link since I found I can't keep trying different things lol
(http://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/?langid=8) Play with this link. You can see that for a 12 week cycle that the plasma levels taper off to almost nothing right around the 2 week mark. I think the standard 14 day PCT for enanthate will still cover in most cases. Can it be calculated to an exact time? I'm sure somehow. I would think that you would want to have PCT overlapping existing exogenous Test by a little, so that way you're not trying to restart from a full bottoming out. I could be way off base here, but that's my thoughts.
I agree u want it to over lap some but I find it very interesting on Dr scally take on using prop at the end of a long ester cycle it's the third link
With my current cycle they have start for PCT at around 21 days beyond last pin. I wonder how the standard taper works in that scheme?
I wonder if it's the build up of plasma levels doesn't decline at the same rate the half life does?
Yea, that is the part that confuses me. When you add in the other substances it all changes.
Correct!.......... now solve the added compounds problem and we make a breakthrough
I am kind of lost on the compounding effect. Say for instance you have your TestE and Masteron E both around 15 days, standard logic would have you thinking that the answer is 15 days, apparently that is not so. Throw in a test P taper (3 days) it still obviously blows plasma levels up but they should drop quicker?
Forget shorts bro....... always calculate from your longest esterifacating compounds.... shorts will be taken care of within the longer wait........... long esters are like time release capsules we must be sure these are utilised before we jump into PCT or we jump the gun so to speak.
Right on. That makes more sense and simplifies it.
You have the right idea going on here you 2 guys............... i am not jumping in here i want yous to solve this yourselves!
TIP!............. work with half-lives.... thats were your answer lies for differing compounds.
Ok so E has 10.5 half life. So your last week you take shot 1 then shot 2. You take the over lap of 1 & 2. That's roughly 15.5 days
Right that would be your longest test ester........... NOW tell me what we have to do if we have EQ running in the stack?
Cmon now.. heads in full gear guys ima gonna blast +3s out here for the best responses just to keep it interesting :))
If you were running eq at say 500mgs a week you would have to wait 42 days according to this calculator. And thats if you use 500, if you go higher say 1000mgs you'd have to wait 53 days. Obvously the higher the dose the longer its gonna take for the body to break it down to levels low enough to start pct. So you'd really have to drop the eq a few weeks before you drop the test e. Accoding to this you would have to drop the eq and wait almost 8 weeks before starting pct. Thats a long time and it now makes a 20 week eq assuming you want to run the eq for 20 weeks into a 28 week 7 month cycle. Long time to be shut down
Exactly, that's why shorts are sounding more appealing to me be it a bulk or cut. Get in and get out. Less shutdown and quicker PCT. Pinning may get old, but the trade off may be worth it. Not to mention the ability to quickly adjust and discontinue short esters.
Yup I'm all for short esters, some people will disagree with me but I'm firm believe in levels of myostatin raising around week 8-10 to counter all the anabolism going on so I want to use the short esters so I can get all the benefit from the hormones those first 8 weeks. But myostatin is a discussion for another day. And I also like to be shutdown the least amount of time possible.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!....................... Breakthrough............ +3 now work from what you have created here and ANY stack can be calculated for a PCT Start time!........... then we bring into play our own built in tolerance levels for running compounds from past recovery notes to create our very own Optimum PCT protocol................................ make any sense bro?
That's a fucking great idea. We should always question everything and try to improve off of it. Pct sucks man between the depression and lethargy from lack of test, the side effects of the serms, I'm all for coming up with a way to make it as smooth and painless as possible.
Edit: And these protocols have been around for so long with no improvements what so ever. It's about time we improved them
This is why i want you guys to get your heads together and keep the evolution thing going..... this is where bodybuilding and AAS become fun and individual............ eroids is here as a boom box for ideas and old fucks like me can help keep yous on the right path and not self destruct from enthusiasm lol
I couldn't agree more bro. I think like we feel that everything has already been figured out and therefore nobody try's to advance it anymore. I mean the reason we have all of our beliefs now is because people before me experimented and found how to do things best. But there stil always room for improvement.
Damn I'm driving home. Lol have to give me a min to arrive safely. Is EQ being ran the same length as test?
Even if it stops 2wks earlier than test we still have to calculate the ester linger........... dont crash for fucks sake be safe lol
14 day half life so 21 days active after last shot assuming it was twice a week shots.
Assuming full and total blood plasma level is reached + what i just mentioned up top ^^^^^^^^^
I'm hoping to get some off the most knowledgeable guys and hear there perspective on this and I'll go check that out right now