+ 13 pct all wrong?
I would like the community to take a look at these links and hear what everyone has to say. The first link is to a pct calculator which shows that we should really be starting are pct way later than we are.
http://pct.befit4free.net/
Upon some research I found a couple more links provided by cbbur that has Dr. Scally thoughts.
http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-post-cycle-therapy/your-opinion-m...
http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-post-cycle-therapy/comprehensive-...
CBBur great post and very interesting and thank u for the time to post these I don't want karma for this cause I don't want to parrots any info. I feel like this is a very real question we need to ask the community as I feel your pct is the most important part of any cycle.
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Very true not recommended for your first couple cycles. This time was actually the first time I have ever done one. May use a Prop kick next time to compare the two.
edit...
It's all about half live and the rate the body expels them. The mg of you first shot will decline during it's half life. Cry Havoc has a post that will explain it better than I ever can.
(http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/how-half-life-math-works)
ray3801Thanks for the knowledge....I'll check it out
Nice visual bro! +1 I wonder if that butthole that posted a few days back. Asking questions about running a 2 week cycle ever looked at a graph like this?
Nice bro, I use the same thing now.. after you recommended it a few months back.. +1 welcome to advance bro
Thanks bro. Yeah, why guess? Multiple compounds, different esters, orals. Time to embrace technology.
it's really cool to play around with... just takes a little getting us to, and no problem bro you earned it; your a good contribution to the community bro.....
http://www.anabolicsteroidcalculator.com/#!
50Mg of Exogenous test is the rough equivalent of 400 ng/ml blood serum level. A good level to start PCT at.
So it's close to hitting that 20 some odd days later
On this graph, it's closer to 35 days later. Looks like last pin was day 28 and it hits 50mg around day 65?
Ya this is a great graph
I see I was mistaking the y axis for serum levels
That's a good visual
I may be wrong, but sometimes I get the feeling that folk don't realize when pinning a long ester how much it builds up.
You are not wrong people don't understand how it works, they don't want to do the math and figure it out..
Exactly. With the esters being so long, ya your on 500mgs ew but when it reaches peak levels its more like 800mgs in your system due to the long ester.
Yea this really opened my eyes I will be doin things differently now
I've been having some very informative discussions with Dr Scally on that other forum.
When I asked him about the graphing tool on http://steroidplot.com/ and the half lives they use in the equations he told me we should not be looking at the terminal halflife, but instead look at the MRT, mean residence time.
Here is a link to his answer to my questions.
https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/pct-simplified.134355977/pag...
I would love to see us make our own data base of Test levels as we start PCT. I'm gonna run my next PCT 28 days after last pin on my test e cycle and get bloods done right before I start. ( I'll probably run some short esters during that 28 day gap). But I want to see what my real life test level is 4 weeks after last pin.
To make things a little more confusing.... I went searching through lab pics to see who's posted bloods taken right before PCT. I found one guy who was pinning 3cc's a week of a test/tren/eq blend and did bloods 2 weeks after last pin. Contrary to what science says he should be at, his levels were tanked at just 14 days after last pin.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/pre-pct-testosterone
28 days sounds very logical and i would agree about using a blast of prop while waiting.
I need a rest bro... gettin dizzy jumping up and down this thread lmao! good thread though we learnt some shit today :))
Bell rings class is out.
You guys are on a roll in here now... another great thread, thats 2 so far this week lets see what tomorrow brings
We got schooled lol this has me looking at things in a different light
PCT is the most confusing and the most important part of this whole AAS world. Always stoked to expand our knowledge on the subject. Thanks for bringing it up again.
Won't running shorts during that time be defeating the purpose?
The strategy is to not drag out the decline of Test, but do go from having an elevated exogenous test to being ready for PCT as soon as possible. If I run Test E for 10 weeks, and test P for another 3 weeks and then take one week off, I should be free of Exogenous Test. While It may not contribute much to science, it will let me know if that cycle layout leaves me ready for PCT.
Plus one u had great links wasn't trying to parrot any info from u
Ok I follow you now
I've only done one cycle, and one PCT. I got a little obsessed with learning about PCT. I started mine 15 days after last pin, and ran 3 serms. I did torem, nolva, and clomid at pretty low doses. I'm not sure if my PCT had much to do with it, but I ended up with a test level 200 higher than my precycle bloods. That was 4 months after PCT.
Yea I've read your post about torem, good stuff.
I know what the standard pct is but what about hmg if it can be found. Could potentially be helpful in long suppressive cycles and when heavy 19-Nors are used
RustyhookerSome of the discussion goes to 3Weeks instead of two. Whats missing is reality of recovery. If you do not feel normalized at week 4 then continue. After tren i had to run 6 Weeks pct til i felt great.
Charts and graphs showing half life and theories are great for visual effects. But if you're not even listening to your body then who wins? It's not an exact science as blood tests prove. 4 Weeks works for the general masses on normal cycles. But you can't look at recovery or even a cycle as exact timelunes, charts or graphs which cane from lab rats. WE are the lab rats.
I also strongly disagree with BOTH hcg thru cycle as well as the Llewellyn shotgun blast post cycle. Thru cycle IMO desensitizes the system in the same way roids or any medication will do. And the shotgun blast for two Weeks is too much, too late. IF....IF hcg is needed for long or harsh cycles, I'll stick with 500iu split for last 6 Weeks.
Here we go................. Theory + self experience is paramount with PCT topics........... NO such thing as "cookie cutter"
Rusty is on point here guys............ work from this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^............ we create many scenarios with each compound we introduce..... especially important when a compound is being used for the first time.... MATHS MATHS MATHS.... All the way guys....... yop have all heard me when i go on about high/mid and low maintenance cycles!.. well this topic is now verging into that territory and is essential if you want to take more advanced approaches to AAS runs.
So the heavier the cycle the heavier the PCT, correct? I know my last PCT was only four weeks on a longer 16 week cycle and it wasn't enough. This time I plan on running PCT 6 weeks. With at least the first two being double dosed. No HCG in PCT for me either.
HCG is fkn junk imo and i never prescribe to any of my people and they do fine............ clomid can be a bitch if used too heavy too long . cut dose low if running longer and up the nolva to balance.......... I believe PEPS are the ultimate way to keep ALL gains after a cycle and solidify so they last for ages.
Never dismiss the power of creatine in this scenario either bro........... my people thrive with great quality mono-hydrate
I never utilized creatine in my other PCT's. It makes perfect sense tho. I have a stockpile of GH I will be running. I have some GHRP6 I have been sitting on for a bit, I suppose I will compose a list of the rest of the peps I need, I love peps.
Any particular brand of creatine you recommend brother?
Lol I never would of thought today I'd be curious about a brand of creatine. I'm interested to I'm definitely trying this
RustyhookerHaving brain fart on brand. Black tub. The good creatine had carbs in it. Carbs spiked insulin and loaded the creatine quickly. Don't sneeze or blow at creatine bucket! Lol! The powder is so light it will be everywhere and feel like cotton candy explosion
Does gnc carry it? Dang if they do guess I'm wrong they actual have something that works lol
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field...
I have been using bulk supplements BCAA's and they seem pretty good. I may order up some of their creatine monohydrate.
Amazon prime is awesome guys. 2nd day shipping free , movies, music. I dig it.
RustyhookerCreatine was actually created because of steroid cycles. Back in the early 90's folks lookibg for positive effects noticed in lab research that creatine was jacked high on cycles. Creatine had to do with water load into cells. As cycle stopped strength fell, volume fell. Creatine was tested. Boom!
Water load. Ponder this a minute. Why do guys enjoy dbol? Dbol isn't magic. First thing that happens is water loads immediately followed with large strength gains! Why? Because your cell is being bombarded with water retention. With that load is capacity to hold more nutrients. More nutrients...more bang...more bang...more pump....more pump....more fascia stretching....more fascia stretch...more room for NEW muscle cells
And i can go on.....
Damon rusty dropping some serious info plus one thanks for contributing on the thread
RustyhookerIf i remember correct the creatine study came from nandrolone research. Water load and strength boost. The question was looking at what caused the loading. Natural bodybuilders could cycle creatine for nice gains. After cycle or precycle creatine use as well.
There is always a load phase with creatine also and you cycle it also. I've phased it out unfit whatever reason, I'm going to start incorporating it again.
BOOOOOOOOOOOM............................... Spot on my brudda.
My cycle ends in 2 weeks and I just started my PEPs and was going to run them through PCT. Is starting them now ok or should I wait until PCT? First time with them. GHRP-2 and CJC w/o Dac. Morning-Post-and pre bed at 100 mcg each.
Wait till PCT they kick-in on day one there is no waiting time like steroids bro.......... stay on untill next cycle starts..... get creatine in the mix and i guarantee you hold gains and still have the drive to train like a man possessed .
Not to bud n vike and pin I started around two before and now im still on cjc wo dac and ghrp6 ordered sum creatine but its pill form is that good
Never used pill form bro... i always use really high quality pure mono-hydrate..... see how you go with the tabs, if they are shit hit some powder instead ok
Okay vike thanks