+ 8 NOT READY FOR CRUISE OR TRT?
So it occurs to me in talking to people over the yrs and then reading about another last night, maybe there are more than 2 phases of life and gear. The 2 we tend to think of as cycling age and trt age. Now I don't want this to be a thought for the younf guys as I happen to think your down times are very important. This is an expansion of my last write "HGH BORN AGAIN" but I consider this a write for guys pre-trt.
Lets consider a thread I read last night of an individual struggling with the leap to trt. His thinking as was mine 3 yrs ago pre-trt, "this is for life, no turning back and once I start the natty test is likely to be done from here on. " it is a big leap and a big decision so it should be entered into with great thought.
So these are my thoughts personally and while I don't assume anyone should adopt them as their own without great care, I do believe they are sound. If test levels dip under 300 I think the thoughts of not being trt are crazy. You have the near cure for what will "definately" depreciate your life dramatically and to not go trt when you know all the ill effects in health that occur as a result of that catalyst, is insane IMO.
This write howerever is describing how I think there is a period of time when something else can be done and not only delay trt but also strengthen ones health in the period of years we wait to qualify for trt. Remember, thers not a night you go to bed and then wake up with trt levels "all of a sudden". The decline in test levels happens over yrs and believe me when I tell you, there is no coincidence here that in those same yrs we age quite a bit.
So maybe as I introduce this for discussion I say we have to have some sort of category system to begin thinking about it, that may be if for no other reason to keep 25 yr olds from thinking they qualify for the specific therapy I'm about to touch on.
Alright finally to the point...I happen to believe there is this periodd of decline between what Docs consider pre-trt and trt. As I said , you don't just instantly end up trt. I wish I had the knowledge to use low dose hgh in this period of yrs. I'm talking about an anti-aging dose of 1-2 iu's ed during the yrs from say 39 to mid 40's. Reason being I know much of my aging occured there and while I have erased some of that with full on hrt it was still a period where things were much more difficult in terms of achievment and I know my health was in decline. I could have drawn a line in the sand as it were had I ran low dose hgh and benefitted greatly. So this write is to once again maybe share something I perceive to be a mistake on my part thinking possibly someone could capitalize on mine and not have it themselves. Now keep in mind, this is being done some. Its rare for sure but there are a few people running this protocol and I've talked with a couple of them in the last year.
So here is the thoughbt as it relates to the science so think about it but in doing so think about it as a bridge from regualr cycling age to trt and not as an excuse to be "on something yr round" if a younger person, thats not good science!
HOW IS THIS BENEFICIAL? i'm glad you asked that question ...
Think about this, test has began to decline and I've gone over all the ugly things that come with that decline many times so lets just say "this is where real aging begins". So this is why I think hgh therapy pre-trt is usefl and I'll just lay them out and number them here.
1. We create better balance in an axis in decline
2. Utilize natty test more efficiently
3. Prompt additional natty test via positive feedback loop
4. Add the possibility for more cell production knowing less cell production is the very reason for aging.
5. Strengthen all hormone function via better axis balance and health, better immune function and overall a higher rate of metabolism "indicating youthfull experience".
6. No axis shutdown here, simply stronger and more stable axis function
Give me your thoughts on this. Keep in mind, "just because you don't do it" does not mean its not sound and while I will not impose my thoughts on anyone, an open mind is a mind that can learn. A closed mind mind is through learning and is that old dog that will never learn new tricks". Its all about new tricks for me until the tricks run out and we are a very long way from that occuring. Again, this is for pre-trt age and not an excuse for 25 yr olds to cruise!
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AnonI was taking HGH and had no relief from joint pain, so for me the cruise trt plan is more so I can keep feeding my self deca. Obviously there are other benefits of taking test but I saw no substitute for what the deca did for my shoulders.
If nothing else works try some thymosin beta 4 with GH or GHRP, do the load dose for 6 weeks and then maintainance once a month. Then when you start your next cycle with deca rehap your shoulders. Get some of those bands you see women working out with ha ha and go to town working tendons, ligaments and joints once or twice a week. I hurt my shoulder and GHRP wasn't doing the trick alone, but when I added thymosin beta 4 about 3 weeks later and after major improvements. Not saying its gonna work for you but you may consider it if nothing else is working.
AnonThanks for the advice Ill think about adding it in to my regimen. Trouble is my pain is not from an injury, its from lyme disease, so its more arthritic.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.Permalinktread-mWhat hgh out of curiousity? Many don't have the same effect from glucosamine chondroitin but brother that solved my joint issues along with turmeric for its healing ability I think. With quality gh though I can shut it down a while and NEED IT BACK! lol. Deca is more a superficial thing I think just hiding the issue, relief is there in the "how you feel sense" but the second its gone the "masking" goes with it.
AnonWell thats absolutely right, when I finished my cycle it was only about two weeks and the joint pain started rolling back in and by three weeks of no deca I had almost all of it back. Ive been cruising since then so I can keep a dose of about 100 mg weekly on the deca.
I got some tumeric about a week ago when I saw you recommended it.
The HGH I have tried was lilly humatrope, xerendip, and protophin. They all seem to help in regards to fat loss, but as I said above, when the deca stopped the joint pain came back hgh or not.
tread-mLilly!!!! You know I'm ya boy right? Loool.
AnonNo your going to have to fill me in on that one
tread-mSorry, I hear the term lilly and get real excited! Lol
cdaddy7What about the name Eli Lilly? LOL
tread-mBOING! LOOOL
cdaddy7BOOM!!! Right on T, a lot of ppl don't understand that Deca has those lube properties based off it being such a wet steroid, but disappear with the cessation....now on the flip side bc of that masking I have witnessed a friend of mine hurt himself bc he didn't understand it was temporary and did not train smart on it and did more damage to the joint ....that's exactly why i tell ppl to take caution when they have joint problems and using Deca bc u can do more damage than good bc it does not fix the joint issue....train smart with Deca always when joint issues are involved...glad u brought that to the table T!!!!
AnonRemember C Im not in this to put up massive numbers on the bench or squat rack, so I doubt Im a candidate for overworking a joint, but I can deffinitely see how someone with an injury could make themselves worse by masking an issue.
cdaddy7It definitely happens bro, but I knew you weren't on that path...Im just glad that T brought it up...You know how he and I begin to brainstorm and elaborate on topics in the forum bc we know everyone is looking and will learn...And we get so busy its the only time we get to chat sometimes too
Just reading quietly through this thread and realised you lot are a set of old b/tards lol its a fkn good job i can come calling on all you 40+ MFkers when i finally get old... until then i still love being in my twenties looooool.....
Didn't mean to +1 you viking and the other option was -1 and I didn't want to piss u off LOL. On the short note though GH at our age is like getting your first nut at 16 and up, you never knew how good it was until you tested it out then it just gets better and better when you learn new tricks.
LMFAO!... its impossible to piss me off brother!.. i am 13yrs older than you and still winning first place trophys in national bodybuilding contests!.. ask me how gooooood that feels lol... i am the master at new tricks and on a side note i really do still feel and believe i am 21.
-1 means fuck all to me bro... having 24in wide shoulders means everything! PERIOD.
Check my profile before you get my humour mixed up with the facts.
tread-mSilverbacks rule baby! Btw, sent you a pic and bever heard anything back, did it scare you? Loool thats dead on 24 right thuur as well my brother. Alpha's baby!
Hey bro i will recheck the mail maybe your new thing as sent it to my spam?... on it now brother will hit you back ASAP
Double checked both email accs bro... NOTHING!
tread-mHmmm...alright I'll resend my brother from anotha. I'll check to make sure it even sent to I've done that before, thought I send and it went to drafts.
Nothing but respect for you viking, I learn something new almost everytime I read one of your threads.
You young stallions are to young for gear !!! Lol
lol theres no way i am 52 bro my mother must have got a bent birth certificate, but saying that she is 74 now so it could be correct i just wont accept it hahahah
I'm gonna be 54 in less than a month bro. We all got the fountain of youth in our hands if we are careful and do this correctly!
Thats right!... its all about staying smart and keeping your eye on the ball bro... when we lose the ball we are well fkd
Funny how easy it is to lose it. Powerlift girl says a month ago lets renovate the kitchen. In one month of diet a little off bp is up estrogen all over the map body fat up and it's gonna screw up my next cycle. And the diet wasn't that out of line! I was taught a big lesson the hard way!
I wish could do bloods at home every week. Had bloods done a month ago and levels were good. Then started feeling funky a couple of weeks ago. Switched from adex to aromisin so maybe it will take a little time to settle. Noticed a little more bloat after the change. Going back to dr. on Monday to get bloods and blood pressure checked. That might be the problem!
tread-mYou need a bp monitor at home brother and check it daily. Helps control water /estro etc. You will learn to negotiate this brother just takes time. Drink your water religiously, limit salt and watch the bp as a sign and of course , plenty of carrdio.. follow the bloods and how you feel and yyou'll master it, to the degree it can be mastered anyway.
Thanks Tread. Had such an easy time of it on cycle, guess I thought this is a breeze. Now I am learning fuck with hormones they can fuck you back! Will get a bp monitor and try to figure out how to get bloods done more often!
tread-mPull up my post "follow the bloods" I think it is. Read that and think about recording how you feel and all your signs when yoju do bloods. It will help you learn to react with less and less bloods over time..
cdaddy7That is right on T....once u learn to correlate the blood with symptoms it becomes a nice ride bc u know where u are at and what to do...
cdaddy7This is why I preach on the necessity of BLOODWORK...esp the closer to 40 and knowing the natural decline of levels after I mid 20s....It's no secret but fact....some decline faster than others and the signs aren't always obvious until levels are extremely low...the advantages of bloodwork is knowing exactly where u are at periods or phases of ur life...I truly agree with tread as I am myself touching 40 and will begin Hgh therapy with a 2 ius protocol....my test levels have significantly dropped after age 35 and the reason I know is bc of my frequent bloodwork during the years...I'm a very enthusiastic about starting this therapy as me and brother T has discussed this previously in my pms....my kits are ordered and I'm waiting to begin this journey....great wisdom my brother as always....+1 but priceless is more like it
tread-mThank you my brother and to add just a bit to your thoughts "signs aren't always obvious". Often that decline is so slow its like putting the frog in cold water and slowly boiling him. He never knew he was screwed until he was screwed! Lool
cdaddy7Precisely my brother!!!!!!
tread-mDp
Sorry should have said I'm on trt 200 test cyp split 100 Monday 100 Thursday. Have been off cycle for almost 12 weeks and it was a simple 500 test cyp per week for 12 weeks
Thanks for the info Tread. Having a tougher time off cycle controlling estrogen than when I was on cycle. Just can't find the sweet spot. Is it unusual for the body to fluctuate, or will it just take time for my hormones to settle?
tread-mIt it normal for some. You have to understand, you just put the body through a shit storm of mega hormone doses and changes in all your neg/pos feedback function. Stability is the goal of course but many didn't have stability to begin with. Meaning if bf fluctuates and then estro/shbg fluctuates even before cycle, stability as well is a relative term within a range, no such thing as perfection in any hormone so ranges are what we are talking about.
I just turn 40 and haven't even considered TRT, but I have been kinda doing Tread's protocol he's talking about since last spring I've did 2 to 3 ius of HGH or GHRP's a day and makes a big difference and makes PCT after cycle a breeze as well. I loose no strength whatso ever, but of course a little weight. I think it is crutial at this age if your cycleing ASS to suppliment with GH or GHRP because it helps you natty test and LH balance out and recovery. Because at this age 40 and up GH release is at a big decline and thats a big factor when you cycle and decide to run PCT its gonna make recovery more difficult and possibly end up on TRT because natty test didn't come back to optimal level and LH just kinda shut down as well, when all it needed was a little boost to balance the axis as Tread calls it. And I don't think you need to run GH or GHRPs all the time, but its pretty important to add during PCT, it makes PCT almost like its not PCT aside from popping the nova and clomid everyday for 4 weeks.
tread-mTHIS!
I decided to do it because why would I want to go through PCT just to get my test level back to 300?...Plus I'm 35
tread-mIf your natty is 300 you owe it to yourself IMO to use the technique for a trial 6 months and retest. I will say this though, if you are not trt and simply roll hgh therapy, you still have to pct to reboot that LH quicker. The hgh will aid in that and make it a quicker healthier thing IMO but pct still needed without. A trt dose of test.
Im getting higher in years where i think about these things. So far i'm year round active, horney ,and happy but it's surely coming.
tread-mThats good brother and those are all great indications so very glad to hear that. This is one of those things where you will hear guys say "i do pretty well without". Well, I did "pretty well" but could have done better having the thoughts I have today some time back. Open mind and I think this foes to a thought I have I would call "the 5 yr decline". No , I did n't look like the average 40 yr old so I could have easliy had a closed mind and said this is enough but having an open mind is the reason for all sciencem. Otherwise we just shut all the labs down and quit experimenting and pioneers like you and I give up . I know you well enough to know, you're a thinker...love it!
Definitly a thinker. Read everything i could from 20 til i popped cherry at 28. How to run small cycles for bigger gains than a big cycle(two complimenting gears) etc. Now, reading up on your hgh posts and knowing for years its sbout balance. Without balance, even natty, there's metabolic chaos. Loss of happiness, fatigue, stress, etc. I know i'm certainly not going out as a feeble old man. Thank you for keeping us utd on all these real world decisions!
Amazing post Tread. This is something to keep in mind for us young AAS users. +1 from me brother.
tread-mThank you brother, hopefully another tool for you when time comes. Soak up all you can now and enjoy the ride brother, its a quick one! Lol