Joe Mariasi's picture
Joe Mariasi
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+ 7 How to minimize hair loss while on/off cycle.

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Hello guys, I've seen people experience hair loss on this forum for a while now and decided to help with knowledge I've gained from university and from the experience of losing hair my self.

Hair loss will be dependent on a few factors:
1. How many androgens are in your system.
2. Androgen receptor sensitivity and how prone you are to follicular miniaturization from endogenous or exogenous androgens
3. The types of androgens in your system (DHT from your natural Testosterone’s conversion, as well as the androgenic activity of Testosterone itself)

Now, as a male, you will have significant more levels of testosterone then a girl, so any women reading this shouldn’t worry. Unless they’re using drugs that increase testosterone and or DHT derivatives. The tradeoff of being a male, is you have a lot of DHT circulating inside your system. Now what is DHT? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT), or 5α-dihydrotestosterone (5α-DHT), is an endogenous androgen sex steroid and hormone that is a by-product of one’s own Testosterone levels.
Testosterone is the primary sex hormone in men, that gives men the male characteristics such as, deeper voice, beard, and body hair. While it’s good for the wife, it’s not entirely good for your hair. Testosterone its self isn’t what you should be worried about, but DHT. The reason being DHT is more androgenic, but also because it has a much higher affinity to bind and miniaturize hair follicles than Testosterone does.

This hormone binds to receptors in the hair follicle. Over time, this causes the hair to shrink. Eventually, it becomes so small that it stops producing hair.

Let’s look at an example, DHT derived drugs are often the strongest in terms of size and strength gain. Trenbolone (DHT) will pack size on you that Testosterone (DHT by-product) its self can’t do in the same amount of time frame granting ALL variables are CONTROLLED. DHT steroids in general are more powerful.

According to American Hair loss Association, “Androgenetic alopecia or common male pattern baldness (MPB) accounts for more than 95% of hair loss in men.” Hair loss is closely related to DHT and most people will experience it, “By the age of thirty-five two-thirds of American men will experience some degree of appreciable hair loss, and by the age of fifty approximately 85% of men have significantly thinning hair”.
(https://www.americanhairloss.org/men_hair_loss/introduction.html)

Way’s to prevent it going from light to aggressive.

  1. Nizoral shampoo. I know, shampoo? But the main ingredient, Ketoconazole can actually combat DHT directly. It is just a normal anti-dandruff shampoo; however, it contains Ketoconazole, which is a powerful antifungal that removes the buildup of DHT in the hair follicles.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262531/)

2-3. Finasteride or Dutasteride. Both of these drugs reduce 5-alpha reductase and thus DHT levels. The % depends on the drug and the amount you’re taking. Finasteride is the most common FDA approved drug for hair loss. When taking this drug, make sure not to take Deca-durabolin otherwise it will make hair loss worse.

1 mg of Finasteride reduces DHT levels by 70% (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8077349)
1 mg of Dutasteride reduces DHT levels by 90%
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18718641).

  1. Another way to prevent it is RU58841, unlike Finasteride and Dutasteride, it is applied topically, reducing the effects of DHT locally, rather than systemically. There is strong clinical evidence that ru 58841 drastically reduces the effects of DHT directly to where it’s applied(head). However, it’s not clinically approved for any medical use. However, it’s a research chemical and can be used for experiments and research purposes.
    (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729)
    (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9415227)

I’ve included clinical sources for all my information.

hamidabdul's picture

Thanks for sharing this informative post about hair loss and how to prevent it! As someone who's experienced hair loss myself, I know how frustrating and demoralizing it can be. One option you didn't mention is Hair Transplant Florida - they offer a range of hair transplant and restoration services that can help you get your hair back to its former glory. Of course, prevention is always better than cure, but if you've already experienced significant hair loss, a transplant might be the way to go. I appreciate all the research you've done and the options you've presented for preventing hair loss in the first place.

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hamidabdul's picture

Thanks for sharing this informative post about hair loss and how to prevent it! As someone who's experienced hair loss myself, I know how frustrating and demoralizing it can be.

Bill1976's picture

I lost my hair way before I started using gear.

guidofest's picture

Don’t ever use anadrol. By far the most damaging to my hair for me. Test var tbol were all fine even tren was no issue

johnmarshall12's picture

Helpful information for those unfamiliar! +

EagerToLearn's picture

So I have a question and I didn´t find much information online, maybe one of the experienced guys can chime in. Oxandrolone (anavar) is a DHT-derivative and it is widely reported in the scientific literature that it is quite mild in terms of andregenicity which includes exacerbation of hair follicle death/shrinking DESPITE being a DHT-derivative. Not even on pubmed I can´t find any info where anyone would combine anavar with dutasteride.

Anavar by itself is mild on the hair. We know that. But what about anavar combined with dutasteride? Is its action on the hair follicle untouched by the dutasteride or would dutasteride actually WORSEN anavars effects on the hair follicle?

So my question:
If I combine anavar with 1mg dutasteride per week (half life of multiple weeks), does the adding of dutasteride to anavar either a) not affect the mild hair loss due to anavar (as 5aReductase has no affinity for oxandrolone but only testosterone) and the oxandrolone would not be amplified to a much more potent compound in androgenic tissues (the way it would happen with T which would be converted into the more potent DHT which binds the androgen receptor much more strongly) OR b) would the adding of dutasteride actually SPEED UP the hair loss caused by anavar? My reason is as follows: the reason anavar has low androgenic side effects is perhaps because anavar is converted into a LESS potent metabolite by 5a Reductase (which is almost absent in skeletal muscle giving anavar such a high anabolic-androgenic ratio) and thus if one blocks 5a Reductase, anavar actually does have stronger affinity for the AR (the same it has in skeletal muscle)?

johnmarshall12's picture

Dutaseride will not prevent the conversion of Anavar to DHT because Var is DHT!

EagerToLearn's picture

That doesn't mean that oxandrolone could in theory not be converted by 5aR bust because it is a DHT analogon

Joe Mariasi's picture

From what I read, anavar is less androgenic because it's already 5 alpha reduced. I found this on the web "As oxandrolone is already 5α-reduced, it is not a substrate for 5α-reductase, hence is not potentiated in androgenic tissues such as the skin, hair follicles, and prostate gland"

Source: William Llewellyn (2011). Anabolics. Molecular Nutrition Llc. pp. 342–352. ISBN 978-0-9828280-1-4.

EagerToLearn's picture

I found the exact same. But look at the source. It is a book by a bodybuilder/anabolic doc. I dug up the book on google books and it did not have any references. The exact same holds for wikipedia, namely citing this book. However on pubmed I couldn´t find anything.

Joe Mariasi's picture

Hello, here is the free pdf of book. http://fliphtml5.com/wtdj/ukvp/basic

left4dead's picture

Im using Saw Palmetto at 1gr ED for overall prostate health, hair stays good.

maddogg's picture

I already take grape seed extract and pygeum. I’ll have to give the other supplements a try. I also use a micro deem roller to stimulate blood flow to the scalp as well as peppermint oil. It feels like the peppermint would increase blood flow to the scalp but you need to dilute it with water or your scalp will feel like it’s on fire. I also got a laser cap but I feel like it didn’t do anything but make my wallet a lot lighter. Maybe it works for non dht related hair thinning.

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maddogg's picture

Strangely my hairline hasn’t receded at all, and I’m kinda tall so if I don’t bow my head it’s kind of hard to see, but it’s fairly advanced on top. I have to wear a hard hat at work and the suspension is always rubbing on it and that’s where it is the worst. I have a Laar cap and don’t go in for treatments. It was an upfront cost of $650 from a Costco sale it’s usually 850 on amazon so I figured it wasn’t going to get much cheaper than that but I don’t think it helped much. I’m sure steroids has made mine worse but I would have some degree of it anyway. I think if I knew 10 years ago what I do now I could have minimized it but once the follicles are dead their gone. My doctor prescribed me finasteride but it gave me ED with in a week so I dropped that. But for those of you who can tolerate it get it for Benign prostate enlargement then it’s covered and a 5 mg pill 30 day supply without insurance is only $5. If you get 1 mg pill for hair loss it’s $77. They rape you if it’s for hair loss. With insurance for 5mg pill I only paid .80 per month

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EagerToLearn's picture

All you would ever need would be 0.25mg finasteride 2x per WEEK. 1mg every day is unnecessary overkill.

EagerToLearn's picture

I would advice 1x dutasteride every 2 weeks. Half life is 2-5 weeks. I am on that same dosage and it cut my DHT in half and is stable there. No need to go all in on finasteride or dutasteride.

EagerToLearn's picture

Haha same here. Dutasteride though inhibits all 3 isozymes so it is stronger than finasteride (which only inhibits 2). I for myself ended up deciding that 1x dutasteride per 2 weeks is enough. 1x dutasteride per week would about be the same as finasteride every day (both at their fully fledged clinical dosage), but I think even that is overkill. You def. don´t want to supress the DHT all the way down.

maddogg's picture

Maybe I’ll try that. If it only cuts DHT in half maybe it won’t give me ED. I heard that the penis has DHT receptors and that’s what gets it up so a near absence of it would explain why it happens, but I don’t know why some people are uneffected by it.

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EagerToLearn's picture

No if your T is high even slashing your DHT to almost 0 shouldn´t do much. The only people that have a problem is people that are low T to begin with as DHT amplifies Ts effect in a tissue specific way

maddogg's picture

I was on 200 mg a week test cyp from dr. Everything was going good till I added 1.25 of the pill. 5 mg cut in quarters and it didn’t take long. And I felt weaker in the gym. I think DHT is powerful in a lot of ways it just sucks that it makes you bald. Thankfully I recovered when I discontinued use. But I’ve read horror stories about those who haven’t. I was on some website that was devoted to recovery from its use the stuff can be seriously bad news for some people

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EagerToLearn's picture

First your dose of finasteride was WAY too high. At most use 0.25mg per day. Second, I honestly do not think it was the finasteride that caused your weakness, perhaps fluctuating estrogen. When your test is that high the T itself would provide all the AR agonism necessary to overcome the DHTs effect in most tissues. But DHT is converted to neurosteroids, what you could do is retry the finasteride and add pregnenolone (a supplement). Then tell me whether symptoms persist

maddogg's picture

I think I will retry it I still have a bunch of 5 mg pills I’ll try to get them small enough and not take it every day

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Joe Mariasi's picture

Hey eager, finasteride dosing is hard to pinpoint if someone’s on gear. The clinical research I shown was someone with an average 50-70mg week test production. When someone is on gear, and even not, crashing DHT will lead to feelings of lethargy and weakness. As you said, estrogen is another factor that people often over look and I agree with you this might be the reason he has symptoms.

EagerToLearn's picture

Actually no, 1mg finasteride a day will inhibit the type II 5aR almost completely and any DHT elevation while on fin would result form the type I 5aR. If you were to use dutasteride which inhibts all 3 isozymes at clinically prescribed dosages your DHT would be 0 on even 500mg Test a week (perhaps even more).
Also no, crashing your DHT does not lead to feelings of lethargy and weakness in MOST people. Actually less than 5%. There are many LARGE clinical studies out there. go over to pubmed and look for yourself. If you stratify the data according to T-levels, the only people that got sides from 5aR inhibitors are people that had low levels of testosterone to begin with (hence the tissue specifc amplification of testosterone falls away but if enough T is present this wouldn´t be an issue)

Joe Mariasi's picture

Biotin, Saw palmetto, DHT reduce drug and minoxidil are your best bet. MIN will not protect against DHT, but it will increase blood flow..

Joe Mariasi's picture

Predisposition is a big factor as well. You won the hair genetic lottery.

Eagles 2013's picture

No doubt about this. I've been juicing for over a decade and still have a fun head of hair. I also haven't done much to combat MPB as it's never been an issue. One of good friends on the other hand has never juiced and was naturally bald at 25.

Joe Mariasi's picture

MPB isn't an issue for some which is good. However, tell tale times of knowing MPB is looking at the recession rate of your hairline and crown.