General knowledge for a general newbie
Evening, I have perused the forum a bit and have learned a lot and yet nothing at all. The information is great, overwhelming, and sometimes conflicting. A quick about me. I am a 34 yo male in good shape (jog/weight train) almost daily and have for about 15 years. I had my Test levels taken about 1.5 years ago and was around the 350 mark. A bit surprised by this but technically still within the normal range. I have had a few issues such as extreme fatigue (I have been unbearably tired since my time in the service 15 years ago), a general lack of confidence, and increased recovery time between workouts leaving me with some flu like symptoms and requiring more rest to avoid this from happening.
I decided to hop on TRT and started at around 150mg a week with 250mg of HCG 2x a week. This seemed to have helped with my overall energy levels and confidence. I was now sitting at around 1250 ng/dl. Labs looked really good and I felt better overall. After 6 months at this dose I went up to 200mg (TRT nation "prescribed" dose) a week, split into 3x a week. I again felt better with even more energy and my lab values were now above labcorps 1500ng/dl limit. I noticed some testicular shrinkage and decided to increase my hcg to 500IUs 2x a week and can say the boys are essentially back to pre-TRT levels. Wife appreciates this as she was a bit weirded out by the loss of size.
TRT nation offers 250mg a week of Test and I was again prescribed. Things were going well with 200mg and I wanted to see what, if any, benefit I could get from the upper end of a legal prescription range. After about 6 months of this I can say I feel incredible. My energy and confidence are where they were at age 18. Gym sessions are great again and I can recover and do 5 days a week of intense weight training and 5-6 days of jogging between 3-4 miles a day without the flu like symptoms I was experiencing 1.5 years ago and starting the TRT.
Lab values continue to look great with only my estradiol being elevated (most recent was 73). I have noted some irritability and some nipple sensitivity with pressure but there is no tissue growth. I have taken arimidex at 0.25mg 3x a week but this seems to crash my estradiol to 7. Symptoms are extremely dry and angry joints. My doctor at TRT nation then recommended I try DIM but I appear to develop a pretty annoying rash all over my body. They are essentially fine with me at the 70ng/dl range of estrogen given how well I feel overall.
I appreciate those that have stayed with me thus far. Essentially I am hoping to discuss all of this information with individuals who are likely more qualified (at least knowledgeable) about everything and not just taking my money and saying "it's fine".
The more I try to research 250mg a week the more I see this is really not recommended and 100-150mg is really a preferred dosage and 250mg is considered a small cycle in itself. I would really like to be on this dose long term as I mentioned the benefits above. The MD (likely a Nurse Practitioner) is clearly ok with this weekly dose for as long as I continue to pay them. My question is, is this essentially not an issue if I continue to get regular blood work and my levels all check out and I feel healthy overall? Is the 500IUs of HCG 2x a week ok long term as well? Finally, should I really be ok with estradiol in the 60-70 range with every lab check especially given the irritability and slight tenderness of the nipples themself? I see a lot of people recommending some methenolone (appearing at about 200mg a week) to better control the estradiol levels. I am not opposed to attempting this but I again run into is this actually healthy to be on 250mg of test, 200mg of methenolone, and 1000IUs of HCG a week for potentially years on end? Not a cycle at that point and seemingly high for TRT.
Just interested in hearing from some knowledgeable members from the community and their experience.
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So like Billy said the HCG might be elevating your E2 a little but if you want the balls to be normal keep using it. You can take armidex just cut the dose down some if it is making your E2 too low. Try .25 once or twice a week. If your nipples keep being sensitive use a serm like Raloxifene or Nolvadex. It's all about balance with how your body reacts.
The HCG s bumping up your e2. Stop it and your e2 will come down.
Dosing can be more about lab numbers and how you feel vs “what’s the normal TRT dose”. Everyone responds differently, some get great results at 125-150mg and others need 200-250mg.
You can also retry the AI but only take it once or twice a week. It doesn’t have to be taken 3 x a week.
You probably don’t want to hear this, but if you’re having nipple sensitivity you should probably back off on the Test dosage to where you have no side effects. Looks like that’d be the 200 range as opposed to 250.
For me a higher e2 of around 60s on TRT is fine with no side effects. If you are having no side effects then a higher e2 is not a bad thing. It’s actually needed for a lot of bodily functions and muscle growth.
I’m not one to judge so if you wanted to try to run low dose Primo year-round to keep e2 lower that could work, but it’s an expensive compound. Most people will suggest starting off 2:1 ratio of Test/Primo and check bloodwork after 4-6 weeks to see where e2 is at. Then you can adjust as needed so you don’t crash e2 again. The caveat with this option would be for you to regularly have bloodwork done and make sure all health markers are in check. Especially heart health - cholesterol will be important to watch as well as blood pressure and hematocrit.
All in all I think the smart play is to back off on TRT dosage. I’m sure some vets will chime in with some more detailed knowledge, but that’s my .02
I appreciate the advice. It’s definitely something I’ve considered and seems like the best route to go given I did not have these symptoms at 200mg. I guess there’s little point trying to add something when I still feel 80% as good at 200 and my estrogen was mid 40s to low 50s at that range without the sensitivity of the nips or the irritability.