Aromatase and AI Dosage
I was thinking about AI dosage recommendations and the fact that there are several factors that influence aromatase expression and conversion of androstenedione to estrone.
Bodyfat percentage. Adipose tissue is the greatest peripheral source of aromatase in both males and females. This is where the recommendation to get your bf below a certain level prior to cycling originated. Of course with the advent of AIs this can be overcome, but it seems to me, that the higher your bf%, the more anti-aromatase you would require.
Another factor seems to be bodyfat distribution. One study found 6-30x more conversion in lower body adipose tissue compared to upper body.
The metabolism of androstenedione (A) to estrone (E1) and 5 alpha-reduced androgens was studied in stromal cells derived from human adipose tissue from different body sites. The tissue was obtained from non-obese patients undergoing cosmetic liposuction or at the time of surgery for reduction mammoplasty. The conversion of A to E1 per 1x 10(6) cells was between 6- and 30-fold greater in the upper thigh, buttock, and flank than in the abdomen. These differences were present in primary culture and persisted to at least the third subculture. Estrogen formation in breast adipose tissue was similar to that found in cells from abdominal fat. The formation of 5 alpha-reduced metabolites (5 alpha-androstenedione, androsterone, and dihydrotestosterone) varied from patient to patient but was similar in cells from different body sites. These studies show that the regional distribution of fat may influence the metabolism of androgens in adipose tissue, with upper body fat tending to form a lower ratio of estrogens to 5 alpha-reduced androgens than lower body fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3504068
I found this interesting.This is possibly why women tend to carry fat in their hips, thighs, buttocks? And would some AI dosage be beneficial for women seeking to lose fat?
Age.
The fractional conversion of plasma androstenedione to estrone as well as the specific activity of aromatase in adipose stromal cells were previously shown to increase with advancing age.
Type, amount, and strength of gear. Of course, the more androstenedione, the higher the potential for conversion.
So with all these factors, it just seems to me that there may be a fairly wide range of effective dosages for various individuals. And this may explain why some people are "non-responders" to the commonly accepted dosages.
So I don't know, am I missing something? Personally I use as little as I think I need, and then if I feel myself getting emotional over some random song, or notice my veins disappearing, I up my dosage. Similarly, if I notice my knees starting to hurt, I decrease my dosage.
Thoughts?
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You are correct about women carrying fat in the abs and thighs due to estrogen .. this is one of the reasons why women will run proviron prior to a competition to strip as much fat off and harden up .. typically they would run nolva but proviron seems to work better for stubborn fat deposits. the down side is that once one desists in taking it they run the risk of estrogen rebound which in my estimation is not worth it. .. but that's just my opinion, I m not training for any competitions other than powerlifting at this point so body fat isn't an issue like it would be for body building
ClassyChassisThanks GRRRL. Do you think that running an AI would help females with dieting? It seems like it would. Just curious.
it all depends on the amount of fat and of course location one is trying to lose. Frankly though, fat loss can be done through diet without any aids it just is ... difficult and requires a lot of determination. The issue of using aids is that once the aid has been removed there is almost always some type of rebound effect. Having dieted down for competitions before I understand the want to use something but in all honesty my best and most lasting successes have come from diet without aids.
hey Classy! well thought out and researched, got my brain working, adipose tissue and the distribution of it along with a person's metabolism factor the biggest role here in my opinion as well.
ClassyChassisYeah, I was really surprised at how much more aromatase expression there was in lower-body fat over upper-body. 6-30x, that's a lot!
BigBmajI've often asked this question. I bounce my dose off of discomfort as well. Emotional too high, pain too low. But I feel like this is a shitty gauge - waiting until something is wrong before i address it. That's why I asked the question in the first place to see if there was something a bit more subtle, than becoming a bitch, to notice it was too high.
I think on my next bulk I'm going to order some quality aromasin and just take 6.5 mg EOD, I'm going to get my blood looked at while it's rolling and adjust accordingly. It's the only thing I can think to do.
Bloods is the only true answer... and asin you will have take ED, not EOD. And even 6.5 ED on a bulker is most def not enough of an AI
BigBmajI don't find I need much at all. I've never even taken 6.5 EOD. That was going to be an increase.
GearofWarYMMV, correct? Because I've run a gram of test per week before and only had to dose Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD. Not everyone has the same reaction and conversion rates pertaining to aromitisation(is that even a word?). But I will agree 110% with you that BW is the only true way to have levels accurately assessed.
What the hell is "YMMV"? Lol.
I know I aromatize like a mad man...I run short ester test and even tren a and without proper AI use and my e2 is at 200+...fuck that. So yes, you are correct too. And I do think it is aromatization ;-)
And aromasin is weird stuff...everyone reacts to that way differently than adex...and then its even more conflicting on how to dose it right, yeesh! I know it works for me but I have to dose at least 12.5 mg ed, if not more. Right now I am experimenting with 6.25mg am/pm
ClassyChassisYMMV" is "your mileage may vary".
OK...thnx, lol