+ 2 Front Loading VS. Kickstart
I don't see a lot of people post about Front Loading, except 7Gothic. Cycles usually have you kickstart with Prop or an Oral. But what about front loading, its affect on Estrogen levels, and how to prepare/balance? Some data I've read on front loading suggests doubling up your first 1-2 weeks then tapering back 1.5 X weekly load for the next 2-4 weeks to get your levels up very quickly to max. That's gotta cause some imbalance that would need to be addressed. I'm considering this due to considering all possibilities, positives, and negatives. The positive aspect I think is 1-2 steroids, convenience, same gear less variables? Possible negative, larger single shots, bigger shift in levels? Tread-m made a great point in another thread: Short ester kickstart and cycle begins in 6hrs! BOOM! registered trademark all rights reserved
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Front loading is a thing of the past , old school.
Its still alive and well today, new folk are not aware of it or its proper use. Many "Old School" methods still work very well today.
tread-mRead the whole post up to here back 2 pages. I stand by the simple point, why would you frontload when you can short ester kick? if something is perfect, why are you fing with that? There are plenty of places in a cycle that could use tweaking or adjustment but the one perfection is the short kick. IMO you can drop in 3 grams but they are ester bound. Prop is prop Nooka, you're gonna F with prop? Are we running out of things to pick on? Did all the politicians kill themselves? PICK ON SOME POLITICIANS BUT LEAVE MY PROP ALONE, IT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU!!!! NECTAR OF THE GODS! LOL Hell, theres not even any math to do, look at the Fers down here doing fing homework! F that, lets get some prop and beers!
So let me get this straight.....You like Prop?
My fear with the kickstart is taking it out too far, and I'm doubled up. Then when I drop the prop its like withdrawl!
Could you reiterate your previous statement about the Estrogen protection just so its all on the same page?
tread-mWell I'll be honest, I never drop prop. I leave it in when running longs and essentially have my own home made sustanon in a much more controlled environment than running sust. So in your case if its a big concern kick the thing 2 weeks at 100 eod (low dose) then toward the end of week 3 drop to 50 eod right up to the end of week 4. Gives some transition there without the shot drop. Seriously, the only way to go. That higher dose of C or E is still ester bound remember so the front load on longs just does not work for me. You're going to be low on test to start, have an explosion of test spiking free test plasma levels and as the front load fall off you still drop the levels over one week. The "crash" as you put it is not like you are going from 3600 in free test blood plasma levels and falling to 300. Prop is in and gone in 48 hrs so there is no "build" in free test blood plasma levels with it as there is with a long etser that grows in free test blood plasma levels through a whole cycle. So prop is very stable in level and given one shot is depleted as the next comes in its just a nice smooth level right up to the ester drop on you long ester. We're not talking about the mega drop you get 2 weeks after leaving a cycle. Very mild fluctuation in transition here, very mild. Many ways to control estrogen and shbg but one sure way is to open your cycle with say 12.5 aromasin eod for 2 weeks. This makes sure the bad girls are in check and insures a nice kick off to the cycle. We are all different so over time you have to find out your "estrogen spike" predisposition with all compounds. One person may open a cycle 2 weeks use eod and close 2 weeks use eod to insure quality start and close and have no other issue, one person may find they have to have it the whole trip..friend here for example that has found it spikes dramatically for him without the A8 and then found he crashed it way too low eod use so has to work to find the "zone" for himself. This is someone highly sensitive in estrogen flucuation so he has to be very precise in control or hs cycle goes to shit quick. Bloods are the road map over time and through different use and combination he is learning through frequent bloods ho to control it properly. Eventually he will be more like I am and know my body well enough based on bloods that I can feel the signs of high or low quicker than a newer user can. So I bounce the AI in and out through my cycles and even on occassion during a cruise just so I know its in control and I'm getting the most effective use possible from my compounds. I miss the signs sometimes still and see myself go flat, vascularity drop way off very quick and quckly pull it back into control. Its a touchy hormone so controlling it is a relative thing. M.y goal is to keeep it in a range based on my skill over time in looking for signs. You will never be able to have it set dead on 32 and just glide, to sensitive to way to many factors in the cycle. All the positive and negative feedback in the hormone chain makes estro and shbg very vulnerable to change. Again control is a relative thing so we do the best we can and thats usually good enough with some time accumulated as to use of AI's. If you are vascular though, watch that close, if you go flat something is wrong and estro is likely involved if eating clean and doing all we do in drinking lots of water and limiting salt. Thats the other point, to read it well your diet and routine and lifestyle have to be in check and consistent. Bad eating can change your vasculaity quick so you may have estro below 30 and go flat and think you need the AI to increase and really all it was is poor eating habits for a period or a day that changed your vascularity. Many signs though on estro going up or down and over time you will figure it out. Some of the signs of high or low are the same such as poor sex drive or poor wood quality. This is one reason I have a hard time leaving the AI in for the whole ride even low dose. If you are running an a8 through the whole ride and the signs pop up you have to guess, do I need more AI or is it too much? If the AI is being bounced in and out and you have not used it in 10 days and the signs pop up you can usually assume they are signs of spike. This says throwin the AI. Yes , some will need it the whole ride if vulnerable to spike easily but you just have to learn your own body. This is part of the reason we push and promote ONE COMPOUND AT A TIME". All these changes in the hormone chain are effected through hormone loops and if you don't learn your vulnerability as to each compound and then work towards combinaTions in compounds it will be impossible for you to manipulate your body with compound use. So when you start this life all wrong running 3 compounds you never learn anything as to your own body and compounds and either your entire experience with them from now on will be guesses without roadmaps or you will start over at some point after failure and come through it properly. Some failure is part of learning and will be overcome with good lessons learned, mega failure is not much of a learning experience considering there were so many variables in the failure there is just no way to figure out what went wrong. Take your time, learn your vulnerability to estrogen spikes using your AI and watching bloods and before you know it, you have it dialed in pretty close and much success comes from control of that one hormone that has so much impact on all others.
Thanks Tread, once again very enlightening!
AnonI agree, I've front loaded and kicked with fast acting esters. To me 4wk prop>front load.
Like your energy bro, keep it up.
I frontload my prop too! WHAT nooka!...When I drank I front loaded that too! NOW WHAT NOOKA?!
tread-mRotflmao...i have the perfect plan for us brother! I'm working on an ester bound patron that will have ssuspension jose quervo as the kick in it. Then an ester release for day 3-7. So we can hang at the titty bar drinking for 2 days and then stop drinking and stay sloopy ass hammered for a week just layin down stripper singles and focusing on the real work! I call it sustquervo! Funny story, hammered on tequila one night no memory of most of the night but woke up in front of my house, car running, mustard all over me and the car and steering wheel and counted 12 corndog sticks in the seat and floor!!! 12!!!
AnonI revoke my previous statement. Hold your breath and spin in circles. Thats a dangerous lifestyle you got going, do you realize how much transfat is in 12 corn dogs!?
tread-mHahahahah...yeah brother, thats the old days when my body would seek out ,kill and destroy anything I put in it! Still miss those cordogs though have to be honest! Lol
Kickstart is doubling intake for me (200mg prop) as oppose to 100mg ED.
Now "front loading," this seems like taking test E early on at like 500-750mg per week 3X a week then starting the prop at 100mg ED at like week 4 of Test E?
I posted a proper frontload down below! Its double your weekly dose first day then next day start your cycle!
Good info guys tsking this into account for my next cycleee
dbolzOnly frontloaded once to shave a couple of weeks on an eq run and it didnt work out very well. I dont frontload test cause i never want to go over 750mg per week and it has worked well so far. If you frontload you would have to run the cycle at the frontload dose or at least thats how i would respond on it (addictive guy here). Its the same as running a cycle at 750mg and then going down at 400mg gains/strength would suffer, same as mood. I dont believe in frontloading at all. Kickstarting is the way to go as long as you time the kickstart well with the time your test peaks. 6-7 week kickstarts i like a lot. You get bored of the kickstart by that time as well and then your test kicks in so the strength doesn't drop much if at all. Just a slight mood crash sometimes. I would never frontload short esters either thats a waste imo of both receptors and oil. As far as your e2 is concerned chances are you will be starting a cycle in high e2 if you dont take proper time off so frontloading might be counterproductive. If you did it in homeostasis as long as you run an AI from day one you shouldn't have any problems. Just watch out you dont crash your e2 by week 4 since when you drop the dose you will aromatize much less.
I dont think you understand the frontload at all, there is no crash! your just building up the esters to work faster.
dbolzDay 1: 700mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 2: 634mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 3: 574.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 4: 1220.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 5: 1105.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 6: 1000.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 7: 1606.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 8: 1455.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 9: 1317.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 10: 1893.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 11: 1715.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 12: 1553.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 13: 2106.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 14: 1908.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 15: 2078.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 16: 1882.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 17: 1705mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 18: 1894.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 19: 1715.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 20: 1553.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 21: 1757.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 22: 1591.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 23: 1441.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 24: 1655.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 25: 1499.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 26: 1358.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 27: 1580.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 28: 1431.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 29: 1296.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 30: 1524.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 31: 1380.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 32: 1250.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 33: 1482.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 34: 1342.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 35: 1216.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 36: 1451.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 37: 1314.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 38: 1190.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 39: 1428.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 40: 1293.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 41: 1171.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 42: 1411.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 43: 1278.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 44: 1157.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 45: 1398.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 46: 1266.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 47: 1147.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 48: 1389.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 49: 1258mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 50: 1139.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 51: 1382.4mg T, 0mg E/D/
You will be peaking at day 15 and you will never reach those levels throughout your whole cycle? How can you not call that a crash? At day 15 you are going to be stronger than day 50. Edit the post if you want once you see it
Could you explain what you are trying to say? The math doesn't seem to work and you skipped an off day (15) which I believe would throw off your calculations.
dbolzNot my maths bro its the calculators, run it yourself it you want the skipped day doesnt affect your levels dropping.
first do it right
dbolzYour suggestion works i must say, according to the calculator at least. But 2g for 1 week is excessive imo or for me at least. Just out of interest can you feel the test e working this way from day 1?
Day 1: 1000mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 2: 1155.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 3: 1046.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 4: 1198.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 5: 1085.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 6: 1232.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 7: 1116.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 8: 1011.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 9: 1166mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 10: 1056mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 11: 956.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 12: 1116.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 13: 1011mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 14: 1165.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
No brother not at all, around 2 1/2 to 3 weeks! itll cut it down a week maybe week and a half from when you would normally feel it!
dbolzGot to say thanks for the enlightenment
But would be nice if it kicked as early as the cal says. Still nice frontload plan that is, 2.5 weeks is not too shabby at all. I will be itching to try it next time i run deca 
its what we do here brother ive gotton info from your posts before myself!
you didnt do it the way I have it posted! this is how you frontload not me!
dbolzThe list shows a 1.4g frontload for 2 weeks then dropping to 700mg for the rest of the cycle? Wasnt the frontloading supposed to be for 2 weeks at double the dose?
No brother read my post below! I gave the proper frontload for a 500mg/w test-e/c cycle...
1000mg sunday
250 monday
250 thur
250 mon
Ect
dbolzLike i said its not in my interests to run anything more than 750mg of test per week. Frontloading at 1.5g for 2 weeks will only increase the risk/amount of shedding, if that happens i would have to drop the cycle at week 5. If i was bald maybe but i am not. Keep in mind we both found this place around the same time i have stuck to my dosage and it still working for me i gain fine at 750mg. The same cant be said for yourself from what i can gather from your posts at least. Its not a coincidence that two guys from here swear by frontloading and you both have to go really high on your test dosages
You are telling me that your strength wont have ups and downs when going from 1.5g to 750mg? I guarantee you at week 3-4 you are going to be stronger than week 5-6.. Either way to shave a week or 5 days it isnt worth it for me, i prefer longer runs anyway. Horses for courses.
If you frontload 1.5 grams for 2 weeks you might have a crash! I dont frontload like that! My tolerances are high cause I have ran 7 or 8 cycles this year and im on TRT so basically im always on, the other reason is because I havent used anything other than tst for my last 3 cycles. It really has nothing to do with frontloading, the only thing the frontload does, when done properly is build up esters faster to start the cycle quicker, theres no crashes when done properly. How high of a dose do you think I run?
dbolzTrust me i might not have 7 cycles this year but i sure dont have anything less than 5 i am on trt as well and i gain even when running 250mg. Anyway like i say i am trying to avoid certain addictive traits i have hence i am not going over 750mg, for my size that dose is more than enough. I dont think you run too high dosages but i know the test stops working for you after week 4-6. Thats says something doesnt it? You always say how you gain for the first 4 weeks and then level out. For that to happen to myself i would have to go 15 weeks and burnout first before i stop gaining. Once i go 1-1.5g even for once i will never look back thats why i am not doing it. Might do it in 10 years you never know. I understand the concept and its not for me thats all i am saying
fair enough! my first couple cycle I didnt frontload and it was pretty much the same, gained everything in the first 4 to 6. I cant tell no difference from the frontload and not except that it comes quicker! All im saying brother is theres no crash! not that can be felt anyway! Many people dont like the frontload for alot of reasons, mainly the belief that receptors become full quicker, and thats cool to each their own!
I frontload all my cycles, I love it! short and long esters dont matter. It knocks a week off of long esters and a couple days on short. after lots of research I found the most effective frontload for me is, for long esters double the weekly the first day and then the next start your cycle, so it looks like this for test-e
Sun 1000mg
mon 250
thur 250
mon 250
ETC.
short esters I double my two day dose, so it would look like this for test-p
sun 400mg
mon 100mg
tue 100mg
Ur info is always so informative! Thanks
Thanks Roid Noid, Do you think there is an Estrogen spike from the frontloading? If so, do you make any adjustment/prep for estrogen spikes from the front load? Start an AI from the get go?
I normally run 2mg adex/week from the start.
Marked
I was considering front loading my next cycle with test e and deca but I wasn't sure considering I'm gonna be running prop and npp and there both short ester compounds, any feedback?
Myobolix-Pharmafrontload shorter cycle..kickstart longer brother
Well I plan on pinning 100mg prop ed and 50mg ed npp, how much should I front load and would I want to front load both test e and deca? If so, how much? I'm sure there's some kind of rule of thumb
Myobolix-PharmaI would front load 250mg of prop and 200mg of NPP.. that comes from knowledge, not experience.
Ok I just wasn't sure if you needed to front load on a short ester compound
Myobolix-Pharmaill reiterate this up top lol.
Front loading gets the cycle started quicker – while the body is most receptive of growth cues. Also, a quicker onset can present an option for shorter cycle duration; resulting in less impact to the "hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis" for easier post-cycle recovery of natural androgen production. in essence, the front loading of a long ester compound spikes the androgenic values in blood plasma.
My consensus: kickstart a longer cycle.. and front load a shorter one
You're lower post was point on.
Myobolix-Pharmapretty much hits the nail on the head brother ;)
just want to make this post so I can keep up with the info. Good info in here
AnonThis is a really good topic. I had wondered about this after reading here and there.
I saw somewhere on here that you can frontload a test cycle with 3x your normal dosage on day 1, and then proceed with normal dosage after that to frontload
Day 1 750mg
Day 2 250mg
Proceed as normal the rest of the cycle.
What's the pain associated with injecting 3cc at one time. That seems like a lot of oil, or would you guys just do it in multiple areas?
3cc in a Large Muscle like Glutes, Quads, or "My Delts" isn't bad, depending on what it is! LOL ;-P
And good site rotation to avoid cysts etc.
After chatting with you and reading forums the kickstart seems better. As you stated, you're oversaturating the receptors then wanting the body to keep up with lower hormones. A long ester IMO works best with a pyramid and taper. A kickstart with prop or oral for the first few Weeks should help better simply because its different chemical than your main hormone so other receptors are also ignited. And kicker hormones are quicker to adjust incase you see sides you're not stuck riding it out for two Weeks.