Doss's picture
Doss
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hcg - pct

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i have read in other forums and occasionally here about hcg blasts for pct. IMO, i feel it really comes down to the individual circumstances. personally, i'm not a fan of exogenous hormones during pct. the goal is to reboot HPTA function. hcg - human choronic gonadatropins - are exogenous gonadotropins (LH & FSH). what we will see here is the basic homeostatic response of negative feedback. as the brain detects the levels of hormones, it sends the signal "there is enough, or too much". thru negative feedback, synthesis of the respective hormones will cease.

clomid's role in this is to stimulate gonadatropin synthesis, not introduce exogenous forms. It does this by inhibiting negative feedback. nolva plays a role in this as well, but is mostly active at the receptors in the breast tissue. aromasin will go a bit further than other AI's by binding to SHBG, thereby freeing up circulating test. it acts in synergy with clomid in terms of gonadatropin synthesis (LH & FSH).

i feel that the role of hcg for most should be to prevent or retard testicular atrophy - keep the doods from shrinking up. this would be an on-cycle protocol. when to start, would really depend on the person. as experience with running compounds accumulates, one becomes more in tuned with their body. as such, they begin to identify when the shutdown may occur due to the grapes turning to prunes. haha.

first time cycle and the body has no idea how to react, so the shutdown make take a bit longer to completely shut down HPTA function. personally, i don't think hcg is even necessary on a first cycle. as cycle length is extended, i would say it's definitely a feasible option. once again tho, it depends on the individual and the compounds being ran.

hcg does convert to estrogen, so the AI aspects become more pronounced to prevent sides. once again, i am talking about on-cycle administration.

pct, should be 3 days after last hcg pin. your pct can look like this:

clomid 100/100/50/50
nolva 20/20/10/10
aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25

the decreased nolva dose is due to the AI being part of this protocol. Without the AI, nolva should be double this amount.
I’m a TRT guy, so I blast and cruise year ‘round. So, atrophy is an issue for me regardless of what I’m running. The HRT specialist that I was seeing prior to starting my ventures with AAS prescribed the following protocol:

Test cyp
AI
Hcg (to prevent testicular atrophy)

Most TRT guys here do not concern themselves with the testicular atrophy aspects, so they do not incorporate hcg. That’s perfectly fine. For me, on the other hand, I do concern myself with this aspect. Therefore, I incorporate it into both my blasts and cruises.

c-man's picture

Just looking for some advice, finished pct after rip blend nolva 100/50/50/50 chlomid 20/20/20/20 and wanting to start next cycle soon, my problem is I don't feel that my balls have returned back to normal! Is it worth doing some hcg before starting my next cycle and waiting or just make sure to run hcg throughout the next cycle?? Any help much appreciated!

Doss's picture

Truthfully, there's more to your recovery than how the balls feel or look. Blood work is the key to gauging this recovery.

Looking at your post there. Are you sure those numbers are right? Seems they're backwards and off a little.

Cjplay's picture

I'm current experiencing some atrophy. I'm six weeks into my second 12 wk cycle. You've nailed here "would really depend on the person". Your boy P hooked me up with some info. Now I'm feeling pretty confident on how to take care of this.

http://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/peptides/how-to-reconstitute-hc...

http://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/peptides/step-by-step-injection...

http://youtu.be/03hX8TwCduA

c-man's picture

Just looking for some advice, finished pct after rip blend nolva 100/50/50/50 chlomid 20/20/20/20 and wanting to start next cycle soon, my problem is I don't feel that my balls have returned back to normal! Is it worth doing some hcg before starting my next cycle and waiting or just make sure to run hcg throughout the next cycle?? Any help much appreciated!

Cjplay's picture

I think you might need to get some labs done before decide on you next move. Your natural test is not back to %100 yet.

Time on cycle + Time on PCT = Time off

But keep in mind this is just a rule of thumb. Everybody is different. Sometimes it can take a little longer.

Doss's picture

Good detail.. The purpose of this article was for the beginner not the more experienced. The goal was to explain the roles so as to remove some of the confusion that I've been seeing in other posts.

I'll agree with you that hcg has its place in both cycles and recovery. With a prolonged shutdown, an hcg blast would be beneficial, and possibly even necessary, for firing the leydig cells back up prior to introducing clomid.

For the average beginner, however, that has not experienced a significant degree of atrophy or shutdown prior to recovery, they need to understand that hcg is not a substitute for clomid in terms of rebooting HPTA function and restoring the axis balance. Yes, hcg will revive the leydig cells and subsequently stimulate testosterone production. Problem here, in the absence of clomid, is that the exogenous gonadatropins do still provide a partial negative feedback. When the exogenous LH is discontinued, how does the body respond? The testies will cease the processes that those gonads are stimulating. Clomid's role here is to stimulate the synthesis of these gonadatropins so that the body can have a more natural and longer lasting reboot.

Btw, good job on pointing out that I didn't include the fertility aspects of hcg and longterm TRT or HRT.

Doss's picture

Yeah, no doubt. Throw that article together on hcg and its roles. I'd like to read it

alloneword's picture

I just finished my first run and I did not incorporate HCG into this cycle. I got bloods mid PCT to gauge my recovery and confirm the effectiveness of my research chems. I will say that I do plan on incorporating HCG into my next cycle up until PCT. once there, I will get bloods mid PCT to see if there is a difference in recovery. I do agree that for a first cycle it is more important to learn how you react to exogenous test. I'll do a write up on my findings after I get bloods mid PCT on the next go around. Thanks for the info, it's very helpful.

Doss's picture

no problem bro. please do share your experiences.

alloneword's picture

I would love to show how effective HCG is through real bloodwork and experience versus copying/pasting some article ;)

Doss's picture

Lol. For real huh