Need lat help
Hey everyone, hope you're all doing good and your waists are relaxing just a bit after a bit too much food and time with family (lord knows I need to cut so hard now, more than I already did.)
With the new year approaching, I'm wanting to truly dial in my areas that are lagging behind the rest of my phsyique. That said, it's truly only my lats that I feel are holding me back from being where I want to be, though I know how body dysmoprhia works and recognize I have it to a degree. But regardless, I'm looking for advice from anyone who's ever struggled to truly isolate or even feel their lats on exercises. I've tried every "You've been training your lats wrong" video on the internet it seems. I can never get the MMC, and never feel a stretch anywhere in my back. Whether it's pull ups, rows, pull downs, dead hangs, or any variation of them all, I feel as if my biceps are taking over. I've tried every tweak (back arched, chest out, arms low, arms high, wide grip, neutral grip), every cue (pull with your elbows, bend the bar, squeeze an orange in your armpits), all of it. Obviously I have lats, couldn't lift my arms if I didn't. And they are developed, but they're definitely the weak point of my physique and the peak of my insecurity.
I know it's not a lost cause. Any advice is absolutely appreciated, and I'll do my best to try implemented it all in my training! Hope you're all doing well, and happy coming new year to you all!
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Wanted to say I gave a good portion of these a try the other day when I went in, and my lats have been wrecked for nearly 72 hours now. Thank you all for the advice, it’s appreciated beyond words. Happy new year to everyone!
To take the emphasis off your arms while pulling, whether it's a pull up, a row, doesn't matter, monkey grip it! Flip your thumbs around the bar, instead of grasping it.
Doing pull ups, same thing. I hardly ever grip the bar traditionally. It so helps with the grip strength loss or lack of lat work. When doing pull ups or rows, try to imagine your arms and hands are just hooks. Don't try so hard to pull yourself up, put into your head that you're trying to pull the bar to the floor instead of pulling yourself up. The tiniest change of angle will switch where you are placing emphasis on the actual muscle group you're working.
I spent most of my life with a huge chest, big arms, with zero lats. My buddies used to fuck with me and say I had a divers back. Lol! There's nothing easy about it, but if you want to grow and I'm talking all around growing, get that MMC together. Biggest and best thing you can do for yourself brother! Trust that it works!
Much better way of explaining it than I did. Thumbs over the bar. Hands and arms are hooks.
So I'm pretty tall and lats are just incredibly tough for me as well. I have found a recent connection over the last 2 years and it started with practicing posing. Im not trying to be in stage ever, but, the art of flexing for prolonged periods and trying to see yourself in the mirror, then couple that feeling you ingrained into your memory while posing into your lifting sessions. I found my mind muscle connection become so much better and that's the missing key. If you cannot feel them to get pumped, then you're missing something. So practice flexing them to get the feeling memorized then take thst to the training. Seth Feroce has some great tips if you watch some of his back training videos. He comments about certain exercises as he executes them and compares them to flexing during a show doing a particular pose etc.
Hope that helps, it helped me.
Pull with your elbows, big stretch, strong squeeze
Gonna give you a stretch and squeeze, bucko
Pls do
I’m tall and lats have also been my lagging body part on my physique. It took me honestly 2-3 years of lifting before I could connect with my lats. My advice would be lower the weight and focus on the mind muscle connection. I know science based lifters and studies say the stretch is the most important part etc, focus on contracting the lat on every rep. Of course utilize the stretch and full rom but contracting and squeezing on every rep has helped me tremendously. Also find movements that work for you, pullovers are a blessing as it’s one of the few isolation movements in which you’re not using forearms/biceps to the same extent as other back movements. Pullover machines/seated cable pullover would be best, but standing will do. Also single arm lat pull-down, I’ve been using the arsenal lat pull-down and turning away so it’s pulling my lat out and using an underhand grip squeezing on every rep. Gives me a sweet lat pump everytime and also increasing volume/ higher rep sets! Best of luck brother
Gotcha, this is useful as well, I greatly appreciate it! Low weight for higher reps seems to be the constant I'm being suggested so I will absolutely just start focusing strictly on form starting tomorrow.
Personally, I used anabolic steroids to make my back grow
You damn druggie, you will be dead by 40 and your straw will be welted and I won't want it anymore.
That’s fair.
I fully recognize the growth I've had is entirely from this because my training is doing jack shit lmao
Yea. You probably just need more gear and less talky talky.
I also suggest a zillion pullups, different grips, wider/narrower, weighted, assisted, to failure. Bent over barbell rows. Lots and lots of volume, multiple times a week.
When you're bent over rowing, if you can't hold the weight paused at the top, it's too heavy and you're likely not engaging your lats.
Meadows rows are another fave because of the arc of the bar path. Again tho you're looking for growth, so lose the ego and focus on volume. And plenty of anabolic steroids.
BP is inexplicitly creeping up on me the past few days, likely due to shit routine since thanksgiving. Gonna get that stable before blasting, but probably running a blast mid January. Will focus on back probably 3x/week. Form too. Still fully getting it all figured out. Appreciate the blatant truth lol
Was just kidding about the roids. All that to say that your back needs lots and lots of volume to grow.
I had a BP problem here a while back too. I'm on telmisartan and another pharma BP med for the blast I'm on. I think it's pretty common to have BP issues on cycle/blast but always needs to be taken care of.
Oh I know, trust. If you aren't signaling growth, even steroids aren't going to replace shit training.
Yeah BP hasn't been an issue on low dose for me until recenlty so I figure it's gotta be a lifestyle thing. I take Vyvanse or my fatass will eat everything in my house and I know it compounds the steroids, though I'm stopping here in a week or two. Should stabilize after. Then I will blast IF I can justify it based on how my body responds.
I'd head volume and form, so I'm going to implement both starting this week. No more 4x10 or whatever, just going to go to absolute failure if I need to on each movement.
Neutral grip pull ups is when I started seeing back progress. If you need weight support to start go for it. Eventually you will be ripping off 20 unsupported. Biggest advise on these is when you pull up on these pull from your lower back almost like you are pulling away from the bar and you will feel the stretch all the way to your lower lats.
Lots of good advice here but I always fall back to mind muscle connection. I could do all back exercises and pull with my biceps if that's what I was focusing on or I could lower the weight some and pull with my lats. I find it's this simple for myself. Back in my Jarhead days I could do 20 dead hang pull up but didn't have anything you could consider muscular lats. When I started doing pull downs and focused on pulling with my lats then I really noticed some development. If you dont use them try some lifting straps so your not.focused on gripping and holding onto the weight then you can totally focus on pulling with your back instead of your arms. Good Luck.
Bro, I had the same problem for years…. Not feeling the pump on my last and under whelming progress. I tried everything! It might sound crazy but for me, I dropped the weight and do a set of 50 reps on my first set. It seems like all the supporting muscles fatigue and drop off until the last few reps are total lats and I can feel them fatigue and pump, regardless of pull down, rows, or seated position. My second set of 15 reps is now total lat “feel” and they pump nicely. Over the last year my lats have developed greater than every other muscle (except calves) and now when I do lats I can isolate and “feel” the pump on every lat excercise regardless of if I do 50 reps or less. I now have complete muscle/mind connection with my lats. Some guys just have that lat connection naturally but I had to develop it, but it did not take long.
BTW I did the same thing with my calves and they have exploded in the last year with just 4 sets twice a week….50, 15, 10, 15 burning reps. I had sad calves and now I get many complements and questions about what I do to get swole veiny calve development….even when they are not pumped.
This was all done with just trt at 125 mg of test/week or 750ish test/blood.
Will implement this tomorrow along with some of the other advice I've recieved! Thank you!
Don’t use your thumbs here and there. Also volume, volume, volume. The back can take a lot of volume. Oh and also volume.
100% thumbs over the bar, not under like you're gripping something. Take that grip strength out of the equation. Also, VOLUME!!! I do up to 20 sets for back day. No more than 3 sets per movement. Which means, got that back from every possible angle. If you can't get results from that alone, you're not even trying.
Straightarm pullovers, t-pulldowns, reverse grip pulldowns, low rows--light weight feel em flex, 6sets of 10-12. Burnouts. Pyramids. Burn it up!! 30sec between sets on burn days. 120sec on heavy. Focum...mind muscle connection
Ok lets start here, are you using proper form when doing lat pull downs exc.? Lets do this for example when you are pulling down on the lat machine, keep your back straight and you should be squeezing your back shoulder blade area as you come down each time.
Seated cable row, same then keep that back straight and when you pull keep the elbows tucked in by your side and pull towards your pelvic area at the same time you should be squeezing your shoulder blades. Use less weight until you get the form down.
There are some apps out there that will demonstrate proper form and give you several exercises per muscle group. Almost every back exercise you should be squeezing those shoulder blades.
This right here ^^^^ if your scapulas aren't initiating the movement then arms and shoulders are dominating.
Now...if I could take my own advice for pressing...I might have a bigger chest and healthier shoulders.
Gotcha. I'll make sure to give it a try tomorrow.
My shoulders and chest have responded decently well. Visually they're where I want them, but weight is.. not where I'd like to be. Always gotten stronger very slowly, even on cycle.
Well following Aggieguy’s advice use straps or versagrips. It’ll take your grip strong out of the equation. Your grip will always fail before your lats.
Also good advice, I'll start implementing those as well. I haven't tried versagrips but I may grab a pair of them to give them a try. Much appreciated.
Even just a pair of regular old straps bro. Use those straps to train yourself to keeping your thumbs over the bar and not wrapped around. Once you've got that monkey grip down, mind muscle connection will start to make allot of sense
Verasgrips are awesome! Cost more than straps but work so much better. I always felt like one side was tighter than the other with straps, verasgrips solved that issue.
I just got some regular wrist straps I'm excited to use for Christmas. But that's more for bench. I'll probably take a trip to the local sporting goods store to see what they have today to give the a try tomorrow! Heard nothing but good from those who use them.
Heard some people (people at the gym, or on instagram, etc. Chronically online) who have nothing but shit to talk to anyone who uses any kind of equipment. Dunno, always been an idiotic mindset to me. If something can make my life less painful and help me progress, I'm using it. Is using AASs for pussies?? lol
Incredible that I've never heard this. I will absolutely be giving this a try. On pulldowns I've always leaned back slightly, and felt like an idiot doing so. I've sooner felt my chest doing this than my lats.
For the apps, I am a subscriber to Macro Factor and with the workouts app coming, I'm very hopeful it'll have good demonstrations within it. Until then, I'll make sure to check the app store for something that'll help me visualize better. I appreciate it brother.
There is a free app called "strong" that has some demonstrations and all on it. You can check that out, the symbol is a barbell with blue plates on each side.
Perfect, will do. Appreciate that.
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Incredibly helpful, I've been using my email.