+ 3 Journey to Grams of Gear
Disclaimer
I am an idiot, and I don’t condone the use of high dosages of anabolic steroids. Everyone’s favorite Olympia competitor is likely running less gear than we think. The main drivers for gains are food, sleep, and training.
Recently, I’ve been experimenting with different blood panels to build an in-depth look at what gear is doing to my body during prolonged AAS use. I check about four times a year to identify trends, and the results may look something like the images attached. I’ve been having a ton of fun reading the lab descriptions and codes on LabCorp and Quest.
These are my bloods after 24 weeks total on cycle, titrating dosages up over time. I am currently on:
• 750 mg Test E
• 600 mg Primo E
• 3 mg (9IU) GH daily
• 5 mg Reta
The goal of my cycle is not to increase strength or improve physique. Although those are added benefits. I’m experimenting with the idea of how many milligrams of AAS I can run before needing to add an ARB or statins, as many of us end up doing. Over the last 4 weeks, my average blood pressure on these current dosages has been 112/71. In my mind, that leaves room for more, which led me to add another 300 mg of Deca, bringing my total to 1.6 g of AAS.
What makes this experiment interesting to me is the possibility of finding the perfect amount of AAS to run with no major side effects and only minor changes to bloodwork. Using blood panels to dictate when to adjust macros has kept me more locked in than ever before.
I’m looking forward to finishing the year strong and then taking a long cruise to see how all these panels shift back into range. Shoutout to the sources here who’ve provided me with the tools necessary for my crazy ideas.
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Who's oils and GH was this on?
The goal of my cycle is not to increase strength or improve physique
Seriously what the fuck???
You like that ? Lol
Am I reading wrong? Total Test 1900 on 750mg? I dunno.
You are reading correct. My total test always comes back low when my shbg is single digits. Unfortunately the lab code I entered for this lab does not provide free test. I’ll have to change that for next time. Good observation.
Just seems like been seeing alot of low Test numbers from various members on what I consider higher volumes of Test lately.
I’m seeing the same trend man. I’d expect test levels to be in the 4-5k range on 750. 1900 is not uncommon to see on 250mg ew.
This is so true. I have labs with total testosterone at 1600ng/dl on 250mg per week.
The standard like 10 years ago typically used to be 3000-4000 on 500mg a week. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone over 3000 on 500mg a week in a very long time. Most are siting around 1800-2500 max. Was the gear overdosed back then, Idk, maybe. Or is it underdosed today. 150mg ew puts me over 1000.
At 125mg a week I’m in the 800’s. Maybe in the past the products pharma produced them to be absorbed better since they came in amps?
That doesn't make any sense to me. If you are in the 800's range with 125mg a week. How are you only getting a bump of 1100ng/dL doing 626mg more a week on top of that? Something seems very off.
I mean you are doing 6X more Test and your Total Test is going up 2X.
In my blood work I have a higher total testosterone result if shbg is not crashed. When shbg is single digits the total testosterone comes back lower. My understanding is when shbg is lower , testosterone has a lower binding affinity by shbg. When the bloodwork lab is completed , the bound testosterone to shbg is factored in the calculation for value returned.
https://myadlm.org/cln/articles/2016/december/ask-the-expert-december-20...
There are many sources out there that covers this. How the different testosterone testing is done and its accuracy. But it’s not really something to worry about in my opinion. Especially if you have a jano privately tested for a batch of oils.
Hope this helps answer your question.
Opposite. low shbg...testosterone s usually higher. If have low test and low shbg that could be an indication of something else being wrong that i would def look into. And I don't mean the testosterone ester or dosage. I mean with bloodwork.
Low shbg would increase free testosterone. The total testosterone on bloodwork includes calculating shbg bound testosterone.
https://youtu.be/HipswNAD_xE?si=LQez2j7ptIUtMG4q
But I am happy to check any blood panel you can suggest. As you can see I’m not shy about running extensive labs
For what tho? Personally I have always stuck to the mantra of minimal effective dose to achieve the most results. Not to mention potentially priming yourself to need more and more of an already overkill dose. I mean for me, im 41 and certainly not a professional, so grams of gear sounds crazy to me especially when I get excellent results running about a gram total of gear split between 3 compounds usually. But again this is just me, a 5’3” guy bout 150-165 lbs.
To answer for what. It’s for fun and to see how I respond. I spent all last year doing the smallest doses to achieve the most results. Which is probably what I will do next year aswell. I started on trt then trt + and then this. I don’t run orals so I like to add more oils 3-4 compounds at a time. Very effective to run low doses.
Gotcha
anvilWell you know how I feel about all this as we speak very often. Let bloods determine the limits of the doses, once you know the limit there you are, completely individualized experience as you are trying to prove out here. You aren't saying the perfect dose for all users, just yourself. I got ya.
Hindsight, I probably should have added that context in the section about perfect dose. Something along the lines of repeatable cycle for me and me only. Still happy to see the engagement from all the helpful members like yourself and others that posted. Lots of good info from the vets for other members.
This is a pretty pointless exercise, because its the compounds that you are running that are going to determine how bad your bloodwork is NOT how much gear you are running per week.
What if this was 750mg Test, 500 mg Tren Ace and 1 ADrol 50 every day? More or less the same amount per week but yet your bloods will look horrific - and of course on those you will need some kind of BP medication.
In regards to what Dorian Yates or Jay Cutler 'Say' they ran ...... It's time people stop being so Bloody naive about all this. Jay says he ran 500mg Test and 600mg EQ - LMFAO!!! But why would he say that if it wasn't true????!!
Well, probably because first of all it makes him look more responsible and sensible, he has a supplement line worth millions as does Dorian which depends a hell of a lot on the image he puts across to the public, it also doesn't encourage other youngsters to go out blasting lots of gear, it makes him look better than others and like he was trying harder in the gym rather than a BIG part of it being down to steroids (which it is whatever you want to say), it also makes them seem more like me and you running 'normal' cycles so they seem more approachable. At the end of the day most of these guys are now Influencers online running coaching and nutrition programmes - You are far more likely to hire them if you think they run everyday cycles rather tonnes of gear that you would never be able to handle. Do you honestly think a 280lb Jay Cutler or Dorian about to step on Stage is running a newbie cycle stood there injecting 1ml of Test on a Monday and Thursday with 4iu's of HGH risking potential contracts worth MILLION's if he loses on the day???? LMAO
It's a well known fact depending on how much research you have done that the average competitor stood on the Olympia stage is running 3 grams Test, 1.5 grams Tren, Grams of Masteron etc PLUS all the orals. 20/30 iu's PLUS of HGH and the naughty stuff.
I believe Dorian. If you’ve ever been around genetic freaks you’d be more likely to believe it. My best friend at 19 and natty was bigger than probably 90% of the guys on this forum right now, while not knowing a damn thing about nutrition, and training inconsistently at best. He maintained 235lbs with full abs the entire time we were in school. His diet consisted of 1 meal a day usually at dinner time. And then 20 beers or more at night. Throughout our 4 years In school he probably worked out consistently for 4-6months of it. Then when we graduated he decided he wanted to start powerlifting and got up to 280lbs at probably 14-15% bf, strong as a fucking ox. His family is actually from your side of the pond. Couple of his relatives are pro rugby players. Another ran a sub 4 minute mile. These elite .01% generics. If I could have ever convinced him to run gear and get serious about BB he could have went pro without a doubt. If you haven’t seen it you wouldn’t believe it. And you’d think there’s no way someone like Dorian is hitting 300lbs in the offseason on a gram of test, 500mg of deca, 50mg of dbol and 8ius of GH
Do you Seriously think this was done on 500mg Test & 600mg EQ per week??
anvilNope and he has said he was doing way more stuff on his podcast.
You’re fore getting the main one insulin
His traps are the same size as his head
2009 Olympia was peak jay cutler. The separation and striations in his quads were insane.
Absolutely not. I think most of his Olympias he was on test tren mast primo var winny and GH. Maybe some halo. All the normal shit they take, which he’s never denied. I just think he took alot less than most people think. Jay was bigger than most people who go to the gym before he ever touched a weight. He was 200lbs with abs at 5’9 when he was 16 years old and he didn’t lift. Just worked on a farm and at his parents concrete company.
As always, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Pointless experiments can be subjective. The progression of this experiment for myself was to run two compounds and titrating them up with test being the main one to increase closer to a gram.
Test / primo
Test / EQ
These would be the ones I was intending on experimenting with only at the moment. Keeping other variables similar between the two experiments. Same workout time/routine and cardio. Similar dosages as well. Test would be titrated by increments of 250mg. Secondary compound would be what ever it needs to be in correlation to test. Not trying to prove my method of experiment, just sharing how I was running it.
Cruz, my friend. I respect 100% the way you’re approaching this, brother … I actually think it’s interesting and valid. The best way to test any compound or outcome is always on ourselves. I don’t see it as stupid at all; at the end of the day, it’s your life, your decision, and you’ll be the one to reap the fruits of it, good or bad.
My only point would be this: think about adding preventive medicine into the equation. People often say, “don’t fix what isn’t broken,” but in reality, most things can be prevented from breaking. And once something does break … especially in the body … there’s no guarantee it can be fixed, and sometimes you’re left living limited and with permanent damage (yes, that’s an analogy, but a very real one).
That’s why, in my humble opinion, it’s smarter to use statins for lipids and ARBs/beta blockers before you hit ventricular dysfunction, arrhythmias, or heart failure. The heart is adaptive … it will always try to compensate … but every adaptation outside its natural function is deleterious to the entire system. That’s not speculation, that’s a fact. Protect yourself while you run your experiments, and I honestly wish you the best.
My quick takes on what you posted:
On bloodwork
Bloodwork only shows a snapshot. Some side effects … like cardiac remodeling or arterial stiffness … don’t show up on standard panels. And testing four times a year might miss rapid shifts; things like liver enzymes, hematocrit, or BP can change within weeks, not months.
On Deca and BP
Good blood pressure doesn’t mean the body is in the clear. Deca in particular can crush lipids, elevate prolactin, and affect cardiovascular tissue in ways BP alone won’t show. “Room for more” is a dangerous mindset … today’s clean numbers don’t guarantee you’re safe long term.
On the “perfect dose”
There is no perfect dose. Genetics, response, and cumulative strain make damage unpredictable. And cruising after blasting doesn’t always reset health markers fully … some shifts (lipids, LVH, kidney strain) stick around or become permanent.
That’s just my humble opinion, man. Take it or trash it, no ego here at all, you know me brother. Just don’t mistake “numbers look fine now” for “I’m safe long term.”
I believe Dorian. If you’ve ever been around genetic freaks you’d be more likely to believe it. My best friend at 19 and natty was bigger than probably 90% of the guys on this forum right now, while not knowing a damn thing about nutrition, and training inconsistently at best. He maintained 235lbs with full abs the entire time we were in school. His diet consisted of 1 meal a day usually at dinner time. And then 20 beers or more at night. Throughout our 4 years In school he probably worked out consistently for 4-6months of it. Then when we graduated he decided he wanted to start powerlifting and got up to 280lbs at probably 14-15% bf, strong as a fucking ox. His family is actually from your side of the pond. Couple of his relatives are pro rugby players. Another ran a sub 4 minute mile. These elite .01% generics. If I could have ever convinced him to run gear and get serious about BB he could have went pro without a doubt. If you haven’t seen it you wouldn’t believe it. And you’d think there’s no way someone like Dorian is hitting 300lbs in the offseason on a gram of test, 500mg of deca, 50mg of dbol and 8ius of GH.
Brother, I’m not disagreeing with you at all, just adding my two cents for Cruz’s sake. I get giving credit where it’s due, but let’s be real … bodybuilding isn’t the most transparent game out there.
Bodybuilding’s got a hidden truth about PED protocols that never changes:
1. what the coach prescribes,
2. what the athlete says he takes,
3. and what he actually pins.
Only Dorian knows what he has done.
And 9 times out of 10, those three don’t line up. Guys lie, coaches downplay, and pros will take certain secrets to the grave. Dorian wasn’t the first mass monster by accident … genetics first, food, training, and then that heavy GH + “Those we don’t speak of/ you know what” combo. more IUs than I’ve got fingers and toes to count..way more .That’s the cocktail.
Now, I do agree with you … genetics is king. Your boy with the freaky natural build? That’s a gift. But here’s the nuance: a good natural doesn’t always translate into a top-tier enhanced athlete. He’ll always be ahead of the average, sure, but beating the true elite (Dorian, Ronnie, Jay, Hadi, Nick, etc.) requires more than just adding gear to good natural genetics.
You AT LEAST need the trifecta:
• Anabolic response …the body actually grows and utilizes what you put in.
• Drug tolerance … less sides for more effect, some guys thrive on doses that would crush others.
• Collateral resistance … some dudes can blast for decades without hair loss, kidney issues, or blood pressure disasters … others “look” at a vial and start shedding.
That’s why it’s not so simple as “if he had just run gear he’d be pro.” Maybe at the beach, maybe at local shows. But to survive years at the Olympia level? Whole different ballgame.
So yeah, I’m with you, genetics is the throne … but the crown comes from how many variables line up long-term.
That’s just my humble take, brother. It’s what I’ve seen from friends, athletes, and coaches I’ve been around.
This was my bad dude, I was meaning to reply to press, not you. I tried to delete it, but it was too late.
This whole subject is super interesting to me. We need a whole new thread to debate the topic. I think most of us thought the rapid increase in size in the 90s came from both GH and lots of the stuff we don’t talk about here. But according to Dorian he didn’t use that stuff until the offseason before his last Olympia when he was up to like 315lbs. He was massive that offseason. And he says it really didn’t do anything good for him. It was not quality size it put on him, it cost him detail of the muscle. But it’s not like Dorian wasnt a monster from 93-96 too, before he used it. So that means he was able to attain that size with roughly 2 grams of gear and 8ius of GH ed. Though he said his best progress came from 15ius 3 times ew. Ronnie’s a complete a compete freak of nature and said the only time he used that stuff was for carb ups during prep. Phil says he never used it. But idk if I believe that. Phil atleast admits he tried up to 1700mg ew of test, among other compounds.
No worries.
I respect them as athletes, but I don’t believe a word when it comes to their protocols.
Could it all be true? Maybe. Could it all be a lie? Also possible. Only they know what they actually ran. But I choose not to trust any of it when the subject is hormones.
Why? Because sometimes the truth isn’t worth saying. Too many drugs can tarnish the image of hard work, pride, and the legacy they built. Admitting it would make the story less beautiful … so why share it at all? Who does it really serve?
I get that people want to believe, but i personally don’t buy it.
Always happy to hear critical thinking and potential dangers from a friend! And you didn’t hold back on your response which is deeply appreciated. Few things I have in the works
I already have a few meds on hand and a few I’m ordering. Doing bloodwork and seeing the results is fascinating. If it was possible to do it every 4 weeks I would be all over it. But adulting gets in the way.
At the moment I have telmisartan, ezetimibe,nibivolol , rosuvostatin, bempoic acid
In the works of acquiring pitavastatin and slgt2.
These are the meds that appeal to me as preventative meds like you mention.
I have experience with deca which is why I chose to throw it in instead of some other compounds that could throw some unexpected curve balls. BP monitor data have been tracked for over a year. Daily reading of course.
The perfect dose is viable to change as we age and our lifestyles adjust. I’m aware each decision in life has a risk and consequence. That being said , as a data driven individual, it has made for some fun and interesting experiences. You know how much time I put into research because of the things I’ve shared with you. But I still take all opinions and critiques into consideration.
Appreciate you commenting brother, you know you can reach out anytime !
This is frickin wild. Doesn't even compute to an idiot like me. Why would you just keep pumping more and more gear until you find out what amount hurts you? Just replace steroids with ANY other drug and repeat it back to yourself. "I'm gonna see how much crack I can smoke before i have an ouchie, then I'll just dial er' on back 10% and roll with that amount" haha ... Jesus.
Even when you find out what amount fucks you up, it's not gonna do anybody any good. That info won't be useful to anyone. Even if 10 grams a week is where you drop dead, it doesn't mean I can just run 9 and be g2g.
Hope you don't hurt yourself. You're a bit younger than me so assuming you have a family that cares about you.
Lmao that’s a good metaphor. Wouldn’t put it past some of the crackheads I’ve seen in my life test that theory.
This experiment comes from the exact thing you’re pointing out. No two individuals react the same to compounds. The data set I’m collecting would not be useful or intended to be for someone else. This would be for me and me only. I also think we have passed the point of thinking 2 grams of gear or higher is enough to kill someone. I’m also sure you have heard the saying “ run a cycle until sides or bloods tell you otherwise”. This is what I am testing for myself. Again, I don’t recommend people do what I do. This post is sharing bloods on higher dose and to see if people will point out the major red flags.
Stay in tuned brother I’ll still be around. Always thankful for the people that care for me.
Alright man.
Be careful.
I don’t agree with the whole Olympia guys running less than we think… most bigger pros are using 500-600mg to cruise on….
I’ve seen protocols of pros using 2 grams of test during prep and that’s only 1 of 6 other drugs added in.. I’ve talked to many I know and they’re on way more than the general public think.. bleu Taylor who has been changing guys into monsters as pros push heavy drugs..
You make valid points , there are a few examples of people out there that admit taking large doses. One that comes to mind is Paul Barnett who ran 3g of test primo mast to win a pro card.
I do believe some may forget about the oral steroids also weigh in on total AAS load. Running 50mg of var daily and 50mg of winny for a few weeks prior to competition day. Bleu Taylor has some absolute units for clients. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
I do agree some pros are running a lot less than we think. In the 90s tom platz did some anonymous interviews with many of the top guys. Despite blurring their face and voice it was easy to tell who was who. Most weren’t running that much. Not like you’d expect anyways. It all depends on your response to gear. Some guys are hyper responders and don’t need as much. Others have average or below average response and need a lot more. No doubt that’s still the case today and some guys can get away with alot less.
Even Dorian Yates cycles were way less than you’d expect for someone stepping on stage at 265lbs shredded. Many of us on here have ran bigger cycle than him. And obviously aren’t anywhere near his size lol. Dorian seems like a straight shooter to me so I believe him.
Dorian Yates is a fantastic person to listen to gives a lot of valuable insight outside of PED use.
To further drive your point , Jay Cutler says in a video with Greg Ducette his off season cycle was 500 test and 600eq. And Jay is one of the greatest of all time. So either Jay is a hyper responder or people don’t truly need much AAS to build lots of mass. TBD.
Or he's lying. You really think he did that on his experimenting young years?
Do what makes you wanna keep doing what your doing. Play around have fun fuck it. See where it goes.
What’s up brother! Hope you and yours are doing well. This year has been a fun ride. I agree the “what if” is a major driver for a lot of our decisions in life.
100% brother ! It’s very risky !
I don’t buy into what these guys say, man. Everybody lies. If a regular gym bro lies about his cycle, why on earth would an Olympia-level guy in a country where PEDs are still taboo (both in the US and UK) suddenly start telling the truth? Nobody really knows what they’ve actually done … not even a shadow of it. Like I always say: there’s the protocol your coach gives you, the protocol you tell other people about, and the protocol you actually pin… and that last one? Nobody knows but you.
Certain people definitely don’t need much. You even see it on here from time to time. People just exploding or transforming on low dose cycles. And also your genetic potential for how much j muscle you can carry naturally comes into play as well. Jay was a relatively lean 200lbs in high school before he even really started lifting. Some guys spend decades getting to a lean 200 at 5’9. So someone who’s 200 before ever really touching a weight is going to have a much easier time getting to 250 than someone who had to spend 10 years training to get to 200.
This is the wrong approach man. Don’t just titrate up to the point right before you start having sides and decide this is how much I should be taking. Then that’s your new standard and when that stops working you’ll have to increase further to a level where you do get sides. Run the least amount possible that produces results and run at those levels for as long as they continue working and when they stop increase the dose or add a new compound.
Most of us suffer from the mindset of if some is good more must be even better. And alot more must be the best. Need to be patient and restrained when running gear.
Couldn’t agree with you more brother! This is absolutely the wrong approach and people should not try this. What you explained is exactly what all the big influencers such as Vigorous Steve and a handful of others advise. I am not here to justify this in any way. Just scrolling through pics on eroids there are plenty of impressive physiques running low dose cycles and achieving impressive results. This is what I like about eroids. People advising others to think before they act.