+ 6 IGF & test levels on 6iu Kits4Less GH and 750 ZPHC Test E
First time GH user. Been running 6iu/day (up from 4iu) of Deluxe B kit for the last roughly 10 weeks. IGF came back at 221 which might not seem like much, but when my baseline was 58, it's an improvement for sure. My levels at 4iu/day were 172. No idea why it takes me 6iu/day (3iu pinned twice/day) to get levels where some people's base are. My cycle has been ZPHC Test E ran at 750/week the last 8 weeks while recently implementing 6mg aromasin EOD. No other compounds. My estro came back at 33 which is right where I want it. Getting most of the GH side effects, great sleep, many dreams, tingly hands and fingers, slight skin texture change, water retention, slight blood pressure increase (usually 140/85ish). I will not go into too much detail here, as I have already written a thorough review of my experiences here:
https://www.eroids.com/comment/4714785#comment-4714785
One thing I am confused about is that from what I've read, GH is supposed to aid in the recovery in joints and tendons, and potentially support collagen synthesis. However, one of the common side effects I am experiencing is some joint pain. I mainly took GH to improve joint pain and increase recovery. I don't know how it can improve joints and tendons while also causing joint pain. Perhaps someone can explain this.
Very happy with the test results. Surprisingly high levels of free test. Been using ZPHCs 30ml jugs I received from a promo a while back. Good stuff.
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The joint pain your experiencing I believe is from water retention and not actual like joint inflammation or damage or anything, so I think it could be helping the joints and you feeling the discomfort at the same time. You could try lowering the dose to a point where you’re not having water retention and then that would probably be your sweet spot for joint recovery plus no discomfort from the water retention. Also you could try some supplements that help expel excess water like dandelion root and there’s a bunch more you can try
Perhaps. That's what I did come across when doing some research. However, isn't fluid retention around the joints the method of joint pain reduction that people will experience with deca? Or maybe I am mistaken. I was always under the impression that water retention from things like fat gain or high estrogen aided in joint/tendon pain.
Yes so idk what the hells going on lol. I think if the joint is lubricated and hydrated it helps it, but with hgh the water retention is putting pressure on the area and I think that’s the cause of discomfort so maybe the hgh is much more water retention then something like deca? Like maybe some water helps but too much causes pain idk?
Maybe when Estrogen and Progesterone act on the joints its more of a hormonal based greasy water/lubrication type effect but with HGH its just a big amount of water shoved in there like it tends to do all over the body initially?
Ya now I’m kinda intrigued maybe I’ll get lost researching it all night.
One thing I do know is that carpel tunnel is caused by the pressure caused by the fluid retention. I’d be willing to bet there’s also some sort of difference where one is fluid in the joint vs fluid next to the joint vs fluid around the joint. So like if the fluid isn’t actually in the joint there’s probably no benefit of lubrication and only negative impact of pressure/inflammation etc. but again these are just guesses. I’ll try and research later if I feel like getting lost on the internet
Yep all very weird, DBol definitely causes fluid retention in my shoulders which is why I use it. When I have looked into NPP/Deca I actually think its the progesterone build up that numbs the joint pain more than anything, its one of the strongest pain relievers there is - more so than estrogen. This is why women get such painful joints when going through the menopause as their progesterone plummets. Do you know other powerlifters in the gyms you train in that actually use HGH? Its rare that I come across any online that say they do, normally its the naughty stuff that goes alongside it that the hardcore lot use to gain a load of weight fast. Many of them once they hit 40 will of had a few bad injuries and the joints are getting worse, so they literally just call it a day and switch to bodybuilding most of the time. From my never ending mission on tendon recovery I have found:
Best Steroids = Trenbolone, NPP, Dianabol, Superdrol (use at own will)
Best Supplements = EAA's, Collagen Peptides, Creatine
When you look at exogenous gh studies in humans you see massive variance across the board at all doses. Some are “non responders” and pull natty igf scores off 8iu, some are hyper and pull 700 igf off 3-4 units. The best thing you can do is learn your body and if you see benefits, great.
With a base level of 58, are there things I'm under utilizing or "behind in" compared to someone with a natural IGF in the 200s? I think I need to do some more research as to what IGF 1 levels actually represent, and the benefits/downsides of higher levels
Not really my understanding is it’s just your genetics. You convert to igf at a lower rate or clear igf at a higher rate. Potentially supplementing t4 could boost numbers up a bit but that would also shut down your thyroid and I don’t see that being worth it.
For the joint discomfort it’s believed to be just pressure on the joint from the water retention. Totally normal. I believe the actual healing causes a bit of discomfort as well but I don’t have concrete evidence of that.
When I briefly took strong HGH years back and got sides quickly it was joint pain in my wrists, which as you know when you are big into benching is the last place you want to experience it lol I stopped it for that reason. It would be interesting to know the IGF-1 level you need to be hitting to get some good collagen synthesis and tendon recovery going, I guess with the limited blood supply in tendons it may take some time to notice too.
Damn still only 32 eh!! Just a young un lol
Haha yup, but already feeling like I have the back, knees, shoulders, and elbows of a 50 year old. Guess all those heavy powerlifting years are taking its toll