FerrumAcuitur's picture
FerrumAcuitur
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+ 5 First Cycle, Bro advice much welcomed

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STATS, DESCRIPTION, GOALS

About to jump on a bike for the first time, and would greatly appreciate some input from the experienced.
Bio:
6’3, 182 lbs, bf 9-10%, 26 yo.

I’ve been natty lifting 5x / week since I was 18. At 18 I was 152 lbs, 9%. Today I’m 182 at 9%. So basically it’s taking me 7.5 years to pack on about 28 pounds of lean muscle. Slow af and aggravatingly difficult to gain mass. I fought in weight classes for three of those years, so I plateaued out quasi purposefully for a solid 30 months. I estimate I gain 5-6 pounds natty in a year with the goal of just gaining. Getting that 5-6 pounds has become increasingly more difficult every year. Last year I gained a measly 4 pounds, and I’ve just about plateaued in the past 6 months. Strength wise I’ve increased every year, and feel good about my strength level for a lanky brah, and really want to see my strength as not a lanky brah.

My nutrition and lifting program has evolved over the years as I learned more, and my regiment has packed 30+ pounds on three natty gym bro’s in way less time. However it can ALWAYS be better. Currently on a macro split of 40/40/20 of carbs/protein/fats, and calories at the maintenance level of a guy 25lbs bigger than me adjusted to my perceived activity factor. Family history of obesity and all the death that comes with that. So I’ve never allowed myself to go above 15% bf because I think it will cause lasting damage to my body’s glucose homeostasis. Seen it happen to cousins / uncles on both sides.

Currently finishing up a medical doctorate right now and undergrad was in nutrition so I feel pretty confident about my ability to manage the training and nutrition, and not totally screw up my hpa axis. Or at least be aware of it if I do. I have waited until I was 26 before considering touching any exogenous AAS. However they don’t teach you shit about how to go above and beyond, just how to treat when it goes wrong. Sleep is probably my biggest limiting factor, but studying makes the money, and sleeps the only cushion in time I have. Definitely a major factor moving forward that needs to be addressed.

So my possible cycle that I’m going to start next week looks like this.

3x 10ml Testosterone Enanthate;

1x Clomid;

1x Nolva

Dosage:

Week 1-12 Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/w split in two injections.

Clomid Starting 3 weeks after last injection at 100mg per day for 10 days, then 50 mg day 11-30

Nolva starting 3 weeks after last injection, 20mg day 1-15

Nolva also used in case of gynecomastia symptoms during cycle.

As far as getting bloodwork done I’ll get a precycle work up, at 4 weeks in cycle, and after PCT is finished. I’m a big believer in monitoring and may increase that depending on how my body reacts. I’ve been cruising these forums for a bit and have gotten a huge education and am amazed at what a resource this place is.

One of the best lessons I’ve learned is that you kind of know what you know, and you sure as hell don’t know what you don’t know. So I’m eager to hear what I can do to improve, and get informed on what I am not considering. Any and all information, advice, criticism of program or methodology is welcomed. I’m here to learn and to contribute, and will take all inputs into consideration. Looking forward to it!

Sxript's picture

So how many cal you getting before the cycle that yields the results of 6'3" 180+
That will give us an idea of how to adjust for gains

FerrumAcuitur's picture

Hey man, appreciate the input. I’ve fluctuated a lot over the years depending on whether I had to stay at a certain weight or gaining, how much I was training, etc. For gaining I put my maintenance right around 2000-2200 cals, and I’d add an extra 500 cals in protein, or another 500 cals in carbs depending on my activity level. I’d overeat until I’d hit the 14-15% bf and then cut back down to 9-10% with intermittent fasting around 2000 cals a day. Right now I’m at 3200 and 300 grams for carbs and protein, and gaining quite a bit. Up about 10 pounds in 2 weeks, what those pounds are ain’t all muscle, but definitely getting muscle built.

Sxript's picture

Oh ok. Well then keep doing what your doing. Its working. If the love handles start to show eat less fri sat sun

FerrumAcuitur's picture

Dude that’s not joke. It feels like I’ll go to bed a fat ass and wake up shredded. Crazy how much easier it is to cut back the calories and lose bf. I’m glad taking some time off on overeating you stay a bit leaner isn’t such a bad idea!

levelup's picture

Have you actually tracked your food intake?

FerrumAcuitur's picture

Of course my dude. Only way to measure progress is to measure. Don’t want to be shooting in the dark!

Bearded_muscle's picture

I always grew on 5000 cals, with 500 grams protein. No matter what that always worked.

Sxript's picture

Solid

FerrumAcuitur's picture

Yeah it is! Shout out about the cals, 3200 this week, 3500 next week. If I hit 5k I think I’d shit more than lift.

Sxript's picture

I'm tell'n ya!

FerrumAcuitur's picture

That would definitely put on the mass. I was shooting for around 4200 cals and 300 grams of protein. I’ll up the intake plan. Appreciate the input.

Immortaltech's picture

5k is wayy too much for ur current weight bro.. dont rush with calories, increase them over time depending on weight, 5k calories with 183lbs will bloat u and make u fat within 4 weeks

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

Hey man thanks for the input! I have a super high metabolism, and have found my BMR to be that of a guy about 20-25 pounds heavier than me, when I’m completely natty. I had no way of figuring how much more I can expect to eat when on cycle compared to off. I think your approach of increasing the calories with time will make tracking what maintenance, clean gains, and hella dirty gains are. I planned on starting at 3k cals and 1 gram / pound of body weight with protein.l, then increasing weekly depending on how much weight I gain, up to around 4200. I wouldn’t have considered going up to 5k until bearded muscle mentioned it’s worked for him, so if I’m not getting too larded out I’ll give it a go and see just what happens. Really changed my perspective on how much food a guy can eat when cycling compared to off. So no worries fellas, I’ll eat a shit ton, but not too fast. Thanks for taking to time to give advice!

Bearded_muscle's picture

It probably is but at 6’3” this guy sounds like he has a very high metabolism for being so thin. I was just saying what worked for me. Good call on clarifying and encouraging slower growth though
++

Immortaltech's picture

sure bro, i also have fast metabolism, im shorter tho, but even when im +200 pounds. 5k will bloat me like hell and make me very fat in just 2 weeks, its always best to increase calories overtime, depending on how much weight u gain

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

How would you compare the cals you need off cycle verse on, or a cycle similar to like this one?

Immortaltech's picture

I would decrease calories till maintenance state, depending on weight ofc... and its decreased over time, over weeks not instantly..

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plantguypete's picture

Cycle seems fine!

What do you plan to use for AI? Not everyone has estrogen problems, but I do at 500mg test/week.

Something to think about!

Also, you provided most the info many neglect! +1

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

Basic plan was to see how my body reacts, check E:T levels at 4 weeks. If I get gyno or other signs of high E I’d just use Nolva for the symptoms. I’m pretty low on the body fat so I assumed I wouldn’t need an AI and hadn’t given it to much thought. If I do is there any recommendations on what works best between letro or arimidex / dosing? Thanks for the heads up on the potential to need it!

plantguypete's picture

Hey bud! I think you should still definitely get bloods at week 4/5 and look at E. I do not see anything particularly wrong with your approach, but I would play it safer personally.

Why wait for symptoms. High E symptoms are uncomfortable. I would personally dose AI at a reasonable or slightly lower level, then reassess after bloodwork comes back. I do think you should have nolvadex on hand for when symptoms get uncomfortable or while symptoms appear while dialing in AI.

For AI, I prefer Arimidex. For 500mg test/week (usually E/C, I prefer longer esters), I usually dose AI at 1mg/wk split. For 700mg/week sust (50mg prop, 100mg C, 200 mg E/ml) I dose AI at 1.5mg/week split 3x.

With this setup, I have usually had pretty good E levels, though, for the sust, I sometimes have to throw in a couple tabs of nolva to knock down symptoms until AI is leveled off.

Keep in mind, everyone responds differently. Bodyfat % does not mean you will or will not respond to test aromatization and get symptoms of high E.

In short, I would start dosing AI from the getgo. Keep us posted about your bloods at week 4/5 Smile

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

Hey man thanks for the awesome explanation! That is extremely insightful and helpful. I will do just that. Seems like a great way to prevent potential problems while I find out what my response is. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Bulkdaddy's picture

You need to eat more.. Cycle is good. You should weight about 50lbs heavier at your height.

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

50 pounds heavier is the goal! What do you think be a good calorie target during cycle?

Bulkdaddy's picture

I only go by macros and adjust those. I hardly ever look at calories. You height Atleast a minimum of 350g of protein, 400g of carbs daily.. I wouldn’t even really worry about fat. I’d adjust your carbs then move up from there and protein gradually up from there. I lift more for looks and strength comes along with the more muscle you pack on.

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FerrumAcuitur's picture

I’ve gotten pretty similar advice from a couple seasoned dudes I know. Thanks for the input dude!