Crashed e2 ED? (Bloodwork included) Please help :)
It's been a hell of a long time since I've been here, guys. I took a long break from anabolics after 4 or 5 cycles in my mid-20's. I had a lot of life moves and changes, including some injuries that held me back, so it was in my best interest to stay natural throughout this process. I kept up with training, but I was not in a place to add AAS responsibly, so I didn't.
That said, I have recently started my first cycle in 2 or 3 years, as of 3 weeks ago yesterday (today is day 22).
My cycle is as follows:
600mg Test E
750mg EQ
I have also kickstarted with some free Prop my source threw in, at a dosage of 50mg EOD.
With the Prop kicker, I think I maybe got "too" careful, and I started my cycle taking 12.5mg Aromasin from day 1. I believe I crashed my estro by doing this, as I recall crashing it once before (I initially thought it was too high and I kept taking it Aro until bloods showed me otherwise and finally realized I was doing the opposite of what I needed), so it wasn't the most unfamiliar feeling. This time, however, it's as if it all just hit at once.
I was maybe about 10 days into my cycle, and about the same time I started noticing myself "filling out" a bit, and gaining a little strength, I also noticed I was super lethargic and tired. And, worst of all, my dick was kinda broken. That is pretty awful, especially as I've just started seeing this girl and things are starting to get serious and it's just dumb timing. But, such is life, and all I can do is fix it and do the right things via my own research, blood test, medication correction, and hopefully some help from some of you guys who admittedly know a lot more than I do and have more experience.
Anyway, I stopped taking my Aro when I started feeling the lethargy and broken manhood, and I just had a blood test done yesterday. My results, thankfully, came in really quickly. Please see here:
Test: >1500 (I know, not exact, but I used a lab that caps at 1500 and just shows "greater than" from there)
Estradiol: 14.7
LH: 0.1
FSH: <0.2
My estro says it's within range, but I am wondering if it has been crashed and is just now getting back up to range because I did stop the Aro when I had my hunch about the crash. Again, it has probably been about 10 days since I stopped taking it, and I was taking 12.5mg ED from day 1 of injecting the Test E, EQ, and Test P.
Can anyone advise whether this is likely the case and what you would do in my position? I still have plenty of Aro on hand, but I will not use it until I feel symptoms that tell me I need it. I feel I maybe should've done that from the beginning, but I am where I am now.
Also, my LH and FSH being smashed is pretty normal, I know, but could this have an impact on the ED issue? Or would it likely just be the Estro?
All my other profiles, lipids, hormones, etc, were in "normal" range. Just high test and "low but in range" e2 and dead ass LH/FSH.
I still feel tired lately, but I it's starting to get easier to wake up in the mornings (not sure how much is in my head and how much is real), but the ED issues are ongoing. That is my only real concern, but obviously a huge one. Anyone with experience have any helpful info/input? Or even just wanna correct me if I seem totally off and stupid? Anything is welcome.
Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you to anyone who takes the time!
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Can you tell me what prop is?
I guess it gives y’all a warm holier than thou feeling. No I’m not sure. I’m assuming test prop but I’m not sure this is why I ask. How else is one to learn.
PcushionQuestions like that are better suited in the beginner group but yes it’s prop.
That's wild bro you assumed correctly yet you still felt the need to ask a question to which you already new the answer.....Why simply to engage conversation I assume.
How else to learn ? try reading the unlimited wealth of info available on this website, drawing your own conclusions is the way to learn.
Don't rely on other people to hold you up, especially not in this game .
Drawing my own conclusions? If I did that and didn’t get info from some of these guys here I’d be in trouble. The exchange of information is what these boards seem to be about so I don’t really understand the problem. Hopefully from the help I’ve gotten from sone of these guys I can post my info, help somebody else and possibly answer someone else’s question. Without being a dick
I want to give a general thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment/advise/share his knowledge here.
Funnily enough, I am already starting to feel I'm bouncing back. Even though I took about 10 days before even posting about it, I think dropping the Aro alone may have done the trick. Right when I was starting to worry, couple more days and I think my estro must be getting back to a healthy spot.
I have continued E/EQ the same (did drop the Prop though, with the Aro, but 3 weeks in I'd say it would've sufficed its kickstart purpose had I not fucked it up - lmao).
It is feeling a lot more "normal" to wake up in the mornings the last couple days, not so lethargic and worn out throughout the day either. The guy downstairs is back in action, too, even with an annoying and unwanted boner here and there at work that keeps me hiding at my desk an extra minute or two, so that's promising. That was what I worried about most. Haha.
I'm still going to get bloods done again here in about 2 weeks, regardless of how I'm feeling, (but hoping to obviously be feeling good all around so I can use the results as a "sweet spot" reference point for the future, rather than more trial and error to fix my shit right now).
Anyway, that's my update for now. I'll keep you guys posted.
And, honestly, genuine thanks to you all. I have missed this place. Some really smart and genuine mfers around here.
PcushionTry dosing the Aro 12.5 2x a week when your ready. If your estrogen goes any lower your guaranteed to not feel good.
Thank you, man. Yeah, I think I went way overboard with it. I'm gonna test again in a couple weeks and make sure I'm in a good place. If I start feeling many high estro sides I'll prob do exactly what you've said. 2x per week when I pin.
I'm sure your Estro issues will work out of you use common sense. but your libido issues are from the low LH and FSH I really believe. HCG and HMG can fix this fairly quickly but you might have to go to PCT with it to have it be effective and restart your cycle when all is good!
No need for HCG while on cycle there is no point of doing that except confusing the body to do 2 different things at the same time
HCG is one of the most important drugs non-trt folks can have in their arsenal.
I disagree about the value of HCG during cycle. HCG can mimic luteinizing hormone, so it can help keep the leydig cells in the testes functioning to some extent. When it comes time to PCT, your leydig cells havent been "asleep" for as long as if you were shut down and did not administer HCG periodically through the cycle.
For his situation it doesnt call for use regarding his estrogen, though.
I agree it does to mimic LH but it will cause other hormones to go up as well
I rather let my boys go on vacation while I’m on cycle not confusing my body with too many things and my libido work fine while on cycle
Agreed. HCG is like bringing in a freelancer because a few of your guys are on vacation. He’s not gonna get the job done in the same way, but he can at least keep things moving until they get back. And when they do, it won’t take them as long to catch up.
RustyhookerYou know fsh and lh are always crashed on cycle?
X2 makes no difference in libido either. If they were crashed off cycle that’s a different story tho
Sigh, normal levels of estrogen in men are 10–60 pg/ml. 14.7 what? pg/ml or ng/dl?
And by the way, symptoms of aromasin use are exactly what you feel, lethargic, lack of energy, e.t.c so you may be blaming the drug on the thing it is reducing.
Without a baseline of your PRE BLOODS we have no idea and can guess right along with you if you like hypothesis.
COMMON SIDE EFFECTS OF AROMASIN ARE:
headache, tired feeling;
joint pain;
nausea, increased appetite;
sleep problems (insomnia); or
increased sweating. SO since your estrogen levels are normal, what do you think is happening?
Could be the aro but keep an eye on it. I’d get bloods every other week til you figure it out.
Keep going with no AI (maybe bump the prop up once or twice) and see if you get to normal in 1-2 weeks. If not adjust again.
Also read this. Could be useful to you. I’m not saying this is what’s happening but it’s possible. I need to keep test high with EQ or it’ll crash my e2.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/equipoise-eq-...
Very good link. Thank you, man. And that sounds about right. Would you recommend bumping Prop a bit rather than adding the low dose Dbol? I had dropped the Prop and Aro both to try and just level out with my 600mg test and 750 EQ. Also, when you say high test with high EQ what kind of ratio do you say works for you? I know we're all individuals, but just from your own individual experience. Like a 1:1 ratio?
Edit: Just went back and I think I gathered you were actually around 850 test E with 700 EQ? So actually test higher than EQ?
For me, yes. If you haven’t been using the prop, I’d test in a week and if you’re still low throw some in
It's really hard to say without knowing what your baseline estrogen was before cycle to compare it to.
Perhaps I'm a little compulsive, but what I would do is stay off the AI and get your blood pulled again to see where your estrogen is at in 6 or 7 days and go from there. It's a hastle to go have blood drawn again in a week but that will give insight to what the next move is and when to start taking that AI.
If you let your estrogen get out of control or dont modify your AI dosing appropriately, the signs and symptoms can be rough to manage. I've made mistakes trying to adjust meds based on "how I feel," and half the time or more it was wrong. Verify your levels before making adjustments. Dont add anything such as HCG to increase chances of raising estrogen, you'll just increase the chances of shit shifting too much. Slow and steady, large fluctuations quickly kn hormones can cause things to go haywire.
Anither suggestion would be to drop everything but the long ester testosterone, you're getting ahead of yourself, or even consider dropping all the anabolics for a while, let you or body balance back out and start anabolics back up down the road when you have reconditioned tour body. From what I'm seeing, you're going down a road with too much momentum and may get hurt or damage your body.
Great input, man. Yeah, I had planned the test E and EQ for a while while getting my natty back to good condition and healthy from injuries and shit from my time away. I trained throughout the last couple years naturally, and an additional year after sorting injuries and life's general fuckery.
I didn't plan the Prop, but source threw it in free and I think I got excited and thought a kickstart would be nice. I probably shouldn't have, because that's actually what made me decide to add AI from day 1 rather than using it reactively. Bit silly, admittedly. But lesson learned!
My first cycle before was test E 500mg for 10 weeks and full standard Clomid/Nolva PCT. Second was same but with Prop kick. Third, and favorite, was a longer cycle test E and EQ for 15 weeks. I felt super healthy and like I was just in the right place practically all the way through. Recovery was rather smooth too. High test, I actually don't feel as great. Low/mid test with something mild to accompany is what I had learned worked best for me. Again, think I just fucked it with the prop and AI. Wanted to replicate that smooth run back then, and should've left the Prop and Aro alone.
I've dropped Prop and Aro and will see how that change does me over the next week or so on it's own. Get the Dbol when it arrives and try a very low dose for a week if still similar. Then bloods again.
If I'm still out of place, I will probably just drop everything, PCT, and regroup. Bloods and a few months before the next attempt.
I don't want to be hasty or freak out and add in and/or drop too much all at once. Overcorrect or overreact. I generally feel okay other than the crash.
I really appreciate the thorough response and experienced advice. I will def update here in a week or two and take it from there. All you guys are awesome for taking the time and sharing experience/knowledge.
My man, if more guys had your sense the advice section of this site would go out of business.
Drop the drugs, pct, regroup. When shit heads south this is almost always all you need to right the ship.
If you continue, Rusty got some good tips on upping estro faster below. Also hcg is another option that should raise estrogen quickly and may be something you want to consider adding to all your cycles as you are still doing pct and have a functional hpa axis.
I think that would be the opposite of compulsive! Thanks for taking the time to share this, I think this is a lesson I needed to hear. It’s too easy for me to be compulsive and jump the gun by looking for an immediate solution to a problem. Sometimes sitting back and giving things a chance to sort themselves out on their own is the best option. +1
Hey man, I’m no doctor but maybe some of the experts can chime in on this and help straighten out my thinking of it’s flawed.
I did some searching on the board and read this post: https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/lets-stop-th...
Your LH/FSH is tanked because you’re on cycle and you also tanked your e2 with ai, but What about using HCG to fix this? Since HCG mimics LH that would help remedy that problem and the increased aromatization from the HCG would help bring up your crashed e2?
What do you think Rusty?
Brother, always ask first for the opinion of a person who studied to do that job, your doctor. DIY doesn't always work.
RustyhookerName a dr that advises steroid cycles please.....
Brother the member claims a big problem with erectile dysfunction.
RustyhookerCrashed e2...broken weiner
Very high e2....broken weiner
Crashed....lethargy
High...lethargy
See where im aiming? E2 has similar issues on both ends of spectrum. But he got bloods. E2 is low so scientifically we have a root cause. I bet his elbows and knees are starting to pop and crunch too.
Rustyhooker10 days no aro and tgats your current e2?
5mg dbol ed for a week or 50 mg tne ed for couple days.
In anabolic forums is a forum on eq having mild e2 block for some. In 2 weeks you can retest so youre not still adding e2 with dbol or tne.
Of course lh...fsh is dumped. Youre on cycle...
Dbol works great for me, converts so easily.. good info
RustyhookerI keep both on hand for a cycle or quick fix during cycle. Tiny bit goes a long way.
Just ordered Dbol from a well reviewed source. Not one I've used, but the one I used before has a slower T/A and I need to sort this ASAP. So you suggest just 5mg of Dbol daily would be sufficient to start to aromatize/convert?
Rustyhooker5-10 should get you oilly fairly quickly. Tne is easy because anout 3-50mg days in a row and fixed.
For me going from crashed to closer to target, joints feel better and forehead slightly oilly. Aro is pretty strong as a suicidal. To really dial your body in though takes testing. Eliminates guesses.
That's a really fair point I didn't even consider. I definitely haven't really experienced any oily skin yet, and I'm actually somewhat prone to that just naturally. Had lots of acne as a teen and def got oily on cycles back in the day before the natty break.
Also, I have little to no water retention, and my wrists feel a bit weak lately. Other joints are fine, but wrists have been weak without wraps. Probably also reiterating the point of the low e2. Sounds like we've definitely determined the culprit is just the crash.
Hopefully the Dbol arrives by the weekend. I'll wait it out and keep positive in the meantime. Aside from the crash, life is awesome. And I'll hopefully be bounced back from that in a couple weeks and put the rest of the cycle to good use.
Again, I really appreciate the advice and the fact you didn't rail me for being a noob. Haha
RustyhookerYou been here long enough that its not worth anyones time to hollar. In the time til dbol shows just go bout life as normal. Your test will slowly convert and depending on your conversion levels....might oil up and back to bionic boners. Horney goat weed has good actions if needed. You can look it up on regular google. I use it on pct to keep sex drive level but it might give you a fix if needed.
Keep us updated. Hope a quick recovery!
The dbol is to help with the sex drive?
Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I don't have Dbol or TNE on hand, but I'll order some. You think that's the cause of the ED and lethargy? It throws me off because the test says it's within range, and general research, but obvs seems still super crashed for being on cycle and no AI for over a week. I'll try to find a fast source for one of the two remedies mentioned there. And, yeah. I know FSH/LH are def dead by default, but I was just wondering if it may have some relation to the problems I'm having or if it's prob just completely the estro alone.
Thanks for the help, man!
RustyhookerEd and lethargy is a symptom of crashed e2. Range really is funky if you look at it because its literally HUGE. Low for you will be different than low for fred at 7. We all react different so the range falls withing a norm of large groups of folks. Same with testostetone...300-1100 being a huge difference.
In general forums Tread the guru posted about e2 and why we need it. Muscles stop growing without e2, squeaky joints, sore, lethargic, etc etc. I keep skin oilly. If i hit greazy like crisco pop 6.25 aro and back to lightly oilly. Depending of course on cycle, gear and bodies reactions. Each cycle ive done differs slightly. Unless you hit tren then all bets off...lol
Sorry, I know you'll ask current stats:
29
190
~11-12%