posted Tue, 09/18/2018 - 21:43
6251
-1 HCG covered by insurance!!
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Edited because my question was misunderstood: Has anyone been able to get insurance to cover HCG?
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RustyhookerAge: 20....Height: 4'7'....Weight: 150....BF:
Get this fixed
fill out your stats bro.
Paladin, you opened a can of worms for some of the lads, clearly lol
Why dont you share with us a little more info?
Did you self-prescribe the HCG or was it entirely the doc's suggestion? Or result from a conversation?
Maybe you could tell us a little about your doctor? Is he/she a TRT expert or a PCP/GP learning as they go/with experience?
What was missing from your TRT? What was the dose and schedule for administration?
What benefits are you experiencing with HCG as a part of the regime?
What do your bloods say now WRT: test and estrogen? (or, with no bloods, when are you next scheduled to take them, considering the big change you have made?
How are you feeling now, after the fact?
PaladinI went into great deal of explanation below. Please check it out and if you still have questions, please let me know. Thank you.
Hi Paladin,
Yeah I see the info you put there. The lads are getting it all sideways because you werent forthcoming with the info at the beginning.
Pretty straight really; you work with an endo for 6 yrears, you want HCG to help maintain fertility, and the insurance finally covers it. All legit. I am giving you back +2, there is nothing wrong with that.
yeah a couple of questions actually,
You alluded to an issue with TRT... What was missing from your TRT? What was the dose and schedule for administration? or was the issue really that you cycle too? I appreciate people may say hcg improves their feeling overall and I personally am an advocate for HCG for the core biological benefits on cycle, for fertility reasons, for post-TRT restarts, for PCT (the original PCT included hcg), for TRT where aesthetics count, and on and on.... but I would like to understand what was missing from your TRT specifically, and it might benefit others...
Similarly, what benefits are you experiencing with HCG as a part of the regime?
What do your bloods say now WRT: test and estrogen? (or, with no bloods, when are you next scheduled to take them, considering the big change you have made?
Paladingiardap, thank you for taking the time to discuss this and thank you for restoring my Charisma points but someone else felt you were wrong in giving me my points back and so I'm back down to 2 Charisma points. Can you please help me with that?
I answered every single question and explained every issue yet some people don't understand what I truly meant.
Now, to address your questions:
(1) "What was missing from your TRT?" It was too low to be effective. But I also had to cycle it so the timing of the blood tests was purely coincidental. They demonstrated my natural Testosterone as being too low so the doctor instead of raising my Testosterone, the doctor prescribed HCG to help and to also maintain fertility.
(2)"What was the dose and schedule for administration?" The dose was 100 mg, twice a week.
(3) "or was the issue really that you cycle too? Yes, I was in the middle of an off-cycle when the doctor asked for blood tests.
(4) "Similarly, what benefits are you experiencing with HCG as a part of the regime?" The HCG has definitely enhanced my Testosterone treatment. I feel even better with HCG.
(5) "What do your bloods say now WRT: test and estrogen?" I haven't had any further tests done since I just got on HCG. My next blood tests are in 3 months. I'm also taking Armidex.
I hope I answered your questions. If not, please let me know and I will respond to you again. In the meantime, could you please restore my Charisma points to 4. Thank you.
Why is HCG the big craze I see it all over the forums? Yes i know it says new to my name, but i am defiantly not new to this game.
Do any of you taking HCG even understand how the body works or how HCG works?
HCG is basically artificiality LH (Luteinizing hromone) its what your testis(your Balls) need to make Testosterone no LH your testis cant make Test. HCG gives your testis LH in hopes to kick start your testis to produce test. (BUT a doctor just doesn't give you HCG if he does with out anything else he is a moron and you should go see someone else)
However, this doesn't always work why, cause if your body is not making LH than when you stop HCG your right back where you where (side not HCG converts to estrogen).
The hypothalamus and the pituitary gland work together for you body to make LH again what your testis need to make test. The hypothalamus send a signal to the pituitary gland to make LH, which is sent to your testis to make test. However, if the hypothalamus sees to much test in the body it tells the pituitary glad to stop making LH. (=Shut done when on cycle)
Guess what there is more, Estrogen the thing we all hate its why you take an AI and a PCT.. If there is to much Estrogen in your body the hypothalamus and pituitary gland work like shit, in simple terms they are tired just like you on high estor.
However, in any PCT--if your taking the old Nolvadex, Clomid or the ARO PCT or whatever, there is always one common factor--Clomid (if a DR is giving you HCG he should be giving you this also) Clomid blocks estrogen we all know that well you should(if you dont go study)..
However, clomid blocks estrogen form reaching the pituitary gland when this happens it starts working correctly it send a signal back to the hypothalamus im ready to roll, Hypothalamus sees less test in the body and say make some LH, now that they are firing back and forth correctly you have stimulated the pituitary gland buy blocking estrogen form reaching it. The pituitary gland makes that LH like a champ and sends the LH to your testis you are now making natural test! (This is why a PCT is 3-6 weeks long takes a few weeks to get going than your body takes over it is naturally doing what it needs)
IMO HCG has only 2 spots to be used I believe Rustyhooker said this in another post, when coming off a hard hard cycle which my guess maybe .001% of you here will ever do, and the other is if you PCT failed, and you need more than just Clomid, Nolvedex etc. however, 9 out of 10 times you ran your PCT wrong or not long enough.
Just my 2 cents.
Much of what you wrote is either without foundation, inaccurate or plain incorrect.
You should at least ask the man why instead of bashing him. The why of a thing is very important, particularly when you are talking to a symptomatic patient.
RustyhookerWhat part is missing? The explanation of the loop? Its been proven that high e2 will keep you shut down.
Or hcg being a misused fad. It is widely misused and a fad. Turn on a lightswitch that steroids turns off....more false signals and desensitization. Been proven as well.
Or the part of purposely crashing testosterone in order to get hcg therapy? I wouldnt waste time with hcg as a therapy myself. Only case where thats feasible is during the period of time trying to get your lady preggo. And in that scenario, theres typically a combo approach involved.
I didnt see Zewi bashing so far. But im missing something i guess
wow.. thanks.
Well it's a rant, but you could call it a bashing when it is without foundation... The loop discussion is the only thing that made sense but was without foundation considering OP's needs for HCG. Dude was ranting his opinions to a TRT patient with fertility concerns about PCT - that in itself is enough. Look if you think hcg is a fad, this is wasted on you, but I would think that you yourself as a TRT patient and also as a father could understand why it is an essential medicine to many people at a minimum.
without foundation
Bashing HCG (a fertility medicine) usage to someone with fertility concerns, - 'nuff said
Bashing his endo, on the back of that (Granted, OP was not very forthcoming with info, still though we gotta ask why rather than rant)
Ranting about PCT to a TRT patient
Ranting about estro at all - the OP is taking arimidex
inaccurate
His discussion on PCT - the original PCT always included HCG. This is simple fact.
Clomid - clomid is not an essential for PCT. Plenty of SERMS out there.
plain incorrect
"HCG is basically artificiality LH" - it is a separate hormone with some cascade effects similar to LH. It also has fsh-like effects
"BUT a doctor just doesn't give you HCG if he does with out anything else" - This is a ridiculous thing to say. HCG is now a formal monoterapy for fertility and also an alternative to TRT as per the world endo meetings and recommendations from a couple of years back.
Doctors monitor for symptoms of high estro such as nips etc. and can add a SERM. Recent reviews showed 6 men out of 42 treated this way needed a SERM and were treated based on symptoms and bloodwork. (Id say thats about accurate as a general percentage). Point is, and we all know this.... you dont just pile on pills without need, and doctors certainly like to take their time in getting things like TRT and fertility right.
"IMO HCG has only 2 spots to be used" - look everyone is entitled to their opinions, but this is just wrong. Here is a list of reasons people use HCG...
As an alternative to AAS cycles - HCG plus GH/IGF is becoming popular as an alternative cycle. Seems to be TRT people experimenting from what I see
this is an anecdotal one; enhances TRT - OP said it, and another lad posted on the thread and also said it, but you will read this all over the internet. My own guess it that it is due to the difference between testo produced in the testes versus being injected, nature versus medicine or something like that, but thats a complete guess. This said, the anecdotal evidence is there.
RustyhookerDude, the op never even posted, ask, talked or mentioned fertility. He stopped his trt simply to get a scripts.
Not much other to comment on. He fooled yall....im no dummy. Lol
Well, it's there in black and white Rusty! But sure, not much else to say!!
RustyhookerDude just decides to crash test level just to get hcg. Thats normal for you? Ok there....
I dont think he said he purposely crashed to get hcg? he said he was requesting it, but took few weeks off test to freshen up after a cycle iirc. And unless he is a complete liar, which I dont think he is... who cares?
I cgaf if he took a break from test after a cycle. It's probably a healthy thing to do.
If you want to call the fella a liar, go for it, but dont rock around like an altar boy as if you haven't been self-prescribing medication for God knows how long. We are at it, the lot of us!
RustyhookerImagine that! The holy father of hcg is magically....gone.
You were a full day behind his origional post. Which was changed. And changed again. And deleted. So im sure youre bored as i am. Dude got pinched and gone. And was clearly a kiddie.
On to the next one....
LOL Imagine that!
cgaf! not forthcoming with info, stats, shill, karma requests, whatever else... etc. etc. really cgaf!
RustyhookerHajaha!! If i get the chance to fly across, were having beers. Lol
Definitely! But we will also be going troll hunting with elephant guns! LOL
RustyhookerHahahaha!!!!
Thanks for the feedback, I will re-read what i wrote, so i can find what was "inaccurate or plain incorrect."
Nice little write up, but this post is about hcg as part of Trt.
PaladinCBBurr, yes, absolutely. Thank you.
Cbburr not directed at you just commenting under you..(You are right)--i just thought the post would cover some noise form the OP. --Still don't agree how he went about getting the HCG.
So let me right something up that was missed, so now ill cover it both ways. (since my post above didnt really cover TRT and HCG)--nice and short the above one was to long.
HCG on TRT is a good thing because it will mimic the natural body. (like i said above artificially).. Because HCG perfectly mimics LH, the Testis during TRT, will stay mostly normal and functional because of this factor.
However, the way the OP went about getting HCG by getting of TRT is not the way to go about this at all. I am more curious if the OP went right back on TRT once he received is HCG, instead of running a PCT and getting back to a somewhat normal before starting TRT and HCG------Which any DR would make sure of that your at your normal stat before running TRT and HCG. ---- since most people that are on TRT are over 40 the real reason you take HCG is because you don't want your balls to atrophy. (waste away)
PaladinTherealZ, to answer your concerns, please look at my posts below. And, yes, I'm way over 40. Lastly, I took the TRT and the HCG EXACTLY as the doctor prescribed it to me. Thank you for your thoughts
I dont think Pct was ever considered, he is on life long Trt.
He had been buying his own black market hcg to supplement his TRT as his dr did not feel it was necessary.
Docs obviously have differing opinions on the role of hcg while on trt.
My research and personal experience has shown that adding hcg helps with sex drive and is good for lipid levels. I certainly feel better with it, and keeping normal size gonads is nice too.
For me. It only takes 250 iu per week to get the desired effect.
I gave you a +2 for your ability to disagree and share your opinion without getting all preachy.
PaladinThank you, I really appreciate that. Please allow me to sequence the events:
(1) I had discontinued TRT so I could give my receptors a break.
(2) Coincidentally, my doctor asked for blood tests around that time. It was bad timing to ask for those blood tests since I was at a natural low.
(3) The test came back showing my Testosterone was far too low.
(4) I met with the doctor who said that the TRT was not working very well even though I told the doctor that I was in the middle of a cycle. Even so, the doctor wanted something to enhance the TRT.
(5) I asked the doctor to try and get HCG through insurance, for one reason, I wanted to maintain fertility.
(6) I didn't think it would get approved.
(7) I was stunned when insurance said they would cover it.
(8) The reason for my post was to find out if anyone had experienced something similar. Somewhere along the way, I miscommunicated hence the harsh rebukes from a few members.
I love this site. You guys saved my life and I'm forever thankful. I would never do anything that would negatively affect this website. I apologize to anyone I might have offended.
This makes no sense.
WTF. You don't discontinue TRT to give receptors a break. I have no clue why you think you need to do that. TRT is for life. There are no receptor breaks during TRT. Did you discuss this with your doc?
Why didn't you reschedule the test then since you knew your levels were going be skewed because of your so called receptor break. Again assuming you didn't mention this to your doc.
Of course he isn't going to say it isn't working well since you weren't following the dosing instructions.
You then say you were in the middle of cycle. What kind of cycle were you running that didn't have any test in it? I also get a chuckle out of this because you say quite TRT to give your receptors a break and here you say you are in the middle of a cycle. Doesn't sound like you are giving your receptors much of a break.
It is great you got some HCG but you are really clueless about the premise of TRT. You need to communicate and not lie to your doc if you are concerned about your long-term health.
PaladinMakwa, to address your questions:
(1) "WTF. You don't discontinue TRT to give receptors a break. I have no clue why you think you need to do that. TRT is for life. There are no receptor breaks during TRT. Did you discuss this with your doc?" Yes, I did talk to my doctor. I told him about taking a beak. He wanted to see if I really needed the TRT at that point. I went off cycle even though I told the doctor that this was bad timing since I was off TRT. He said never-mind and just take the blood tests. It sort of confused me but I did what the doctor said.
(2) "Why didn't you reschedule the test then since you knew your levels were going be skewed because of your so called receptor break. Again assuming you didn't mention this to your doc." I talked to the doctor about this but like I said, that's what she wanted.
(3) "Of course he isn't going to say it isn't working well since you weren't following the dosing instructions." Not true. I was doing exactly what the doctor said to do.
(4) "You then say you were in the middle of cycle. What kind of cycle were you running that didn't have any test in it? I also get a chuckle out of this because you say quite TRT to give your receptors a break and here you say you are in the middle of a cycle. Doesn't sound like you are giving your receptors much of a break." Sorry to confuse you. I was in the middle of an OFF-CYCLE. Not ON-CYCLE with TRT. I should have been more clear.
(5) "It is great you got some HCG but you are really clueless about the premise of TRT. You need to communicate and not lie to your doc if you are concerned about your long-term health." Sorry but you are mistaken. I've been using TRT since 2012. I've been a member here since around that time. I've placed many orders for various items of the years. And I ABSOLUTELY did not lie to my doctor. I really don't appreciate being called a liar when you don't even have the facts. I was following his instructions to the letter. I answered your questions and the questions of others and have been a contributor to the sources from which I received products. I don's understand how I can lose 2 Charisma points in this minor discussion. It just discourages me from participating on a regular basis. I was hoping you would be a bit more understanding. If you don't like what I said, make your point and slap me down but removing Charisma points (I don't know if you did) is just an extreme act. Thank you for giving me a chance to respond.
I hope this better explained things.
Much better explanation. ++
PaladinThank you but if I had known someone was going to strip 2 Charisma points for bringing this up, I would never have brought this topic up.
Rustyhookerpurposely stopped taking Testosterone so my Test levels would show that they were low dispute the Test treatment
Shame.....nothing like a bonehead working the system for hcg and estro spikes. -2 for just being redonkuloys
PaladinI appreciate your thoughts and I further explained my problem down below. I don't suggest anyone go off TRT unless they are cycling. I happened to be in the middle of an off-cycle when the doctor asked for blood tests. It just happened that my Test was low and the doctor, and I agreed to the suggestion of HCG. That's the essence of what happened and I'm sorry for the confusion. I've been a member here for a few years and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone. Please accept my apology.
I dont get anything through insurance, but if you have it you gotta do what you gotta do to work the system. I dont see this as pointing youngsters in the wrong direction.
I can understand ur point on doing what u have to do, weve all been there, but I'd have to mainly agree with this site being a community of educating people in doing things the right way. I've gotten great advice here that has kept me (a newb) from doing some stupid shit. You being one of the first to help me. So if someone crashes their hormones purposely and wants to post it up, I think a good negging is warranted not karma...
.
I just dont see it as a big deal, guys crash their test pretty routinely.
Some to try to go natty again, others to clear receptors.
We tweak our hormones all over the place, mostly up.
Skipping a pin or two is just not a big deal.
I like to let the mods do most of the negging. Not my job to be eroids police.
Even if I disagree with a post, I can offer up a counter point but I do not feel the need to be a neg nanny.
This site isn't about promoting intentional shutdown to obtain a prescription from a doctor..
PaladinOnly if you are cycling. I have to do that.
Some of the guys below might disagree with my post and that's ok. But I'm pretty sure there's been a long standing rule not to advertise this type of behavior especially when there are so many "younger eyes" watching.
Next thing you know we'll have 21 year olds walking into the doctors office with a test level of 9 asking for a script.
So I -2 you for it bro.. because this type of behavior is reckless.
PaladinAlso, I don't appreciate losing 2 points for that one comment. I worked a while to get to 4 and because of this one comment I get demoted? Can you please restore my points? Like I said, I'll delete my post if that helps.
No.. you need to earn them back.. we've all been there.. don't post stuff like this. Talk about this shirt in a PM.
PaladinI sincerely respect your thoughts and will take your advice in the future. Thank you for understanding.
PaladinActually, the drop in my Test was by chance. I had to get off it in order to cycle it and that's about the time my doctor asked for blood tests. So it wasn't deliberate, just by accident. And I was surprised when the insurance covered it. There's no possible way someone can walk into a doctors' office and ask for HCG. Never gonna happen. I've been working with this doctor for 6 years and so I have a close relationship. Coming off the street and asking for it will never happen. TRT is the first protocol, not HCG. However, if you still feel I should remove my post, let me know and I will.
"I purposely stopped taking Testosterone so my Test levels would show that they were low dispute the Test treatment."
Which is it? By chance or purposely?
-2
PaladinIt was both. The TRT was failing so I went off it in order to try and reboot it and get something else to enhance it. I did not expect the HCG to get approved by insurance and was happy that it was covered. I realize that the initial way I wrote my post was confusing and I'm sorry for that.
Goose,
This is not some teenager crashing his test to get on trt. It's an adult who did research, trial and error ,determined he felt better with hcg as part of his protocol.
He found a non Fraud way to get it covered by insurance.
We are a forum that discusses drugs that fuck up our endocrine systems, harden arteries, enlarge heatrs and generally shorten lifespans.
Relatively speaking, getting some pharma HCG is child's play.
Bro... what do you think a 21 year old kid is going to do if he sees shit like this? It's only going to give him the idea to do this.. I know you've been around long enough to know the guys (kids) in the gym who say they want to be professional body builders or even pro athletes. Kids at that age will use that mindset as a crutch to use compounds like these (need that extra leg up) oh and guess what I learned today if I don't take PCT and let my hormones crash I can get a script for test from the doctor and my PARENTS insurance will cover it!!
It's a snowball effect. I know you know better.
PaladinGoose24, please be sure that it would be next to impossible for some teenage kid to get a prescription for HCG and have his parents' insurance cover it.
Even though I had been working with my Endocrinologist for 6 years, and despite my previous requests for HCG, insurance denied it and I had to pay for it myself. Frankly, I was stunned when insurance covered it this time.
This a rarity and I certainly don't suggest a teenager even try this. As we all know, through online sources, we can buy the HCG without going through insurance and also avoid the over-site of a doctor and insurance. Don't you think this is a moot conversation considering that HCG is available to anyone at any age through these sources? Again, I was just lucky.
You have been drinking your own koolaid for too damn long.
I know how 21year olds think. I am the father of one.
This post is not going to encourage a young guy to skip Pct and try to get parents insurance to cover trt.
Good grief.
You are trying to turn this into a nanny state one neg at a time.
I see you haven't changed one bit. Yolo!