posted Tue, 04/19/2016 - 18:41
2711
A Little Confused
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Just had labs done cycle, constantly worried about gyno... Estrogen came back in range but high at 182 ng/ml. I couldn't get my E2 alone tested through this particular doctor, but herein lies my question are these normal levels on 500mg Test E only? And I'm on 12.5 ed exemstane is there a chance it's bunk because even if the answer to the first question is a yes it's on the very high end of the spectrum.
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When you list BW you should always give the reference range.
Taking leto is a bad idea because you will likely lower your e2 too much.
Your estrogen was within range so as long as you were feeling alright everything was fine.
Then you get your estrogen checked you need to have a sensitive e2 assay because a normal assay is skewed towards women, resulting in men almost always testing test higher. Sometimes as much as 10-20 pg/ml higher.
As was stated earlier the ideal stane dose, when on 500mg of test, is 25mg. That's 12.5mg taken twice per day with dietary fats. That dose should lower you e2 by about 40%. The only way to know for sure is to have the proper BW.
ThoripIt's very high in range and way above baseline I am super sensitive and am flaring up. As I previously stated I upped my dose with little resulting of it then I switched to letro when the sensitivity turned to pain. Week 2 I was at 78 week 5 182.
What are is the reference range and test that you are using?
ThoripTest that I am using? My primary care physician... 50 and 190. The test is fine through quest diagnostics. Anyway. How do you suggest keeping in mind I am very prone to gyno. I got it from seroquel temporarily and again from epistane. There is tissue under my nipple I'm not over reacting.
Alright you got the estrogen, total, serum assay with a reference range of 60-190 pg/mL.
For future reference the assay that will be most accurate is the estradiol ultrasensitive lc/ms/ms.
It's almost impossible to get gyno in week 2 of a test e cycle.
Can you feel a physical lump behind you nipple?
Is this your first cycle?
ThoripAlso as I stated originally choice of BW was very limited could not get E2 alone through this lab. Not an Endocrinologist.
I understand what you're saying, but there are other personal labs.
My personal favorite is labsMD. They use mass spec testing to you get accurate e2 readings even when using a 19 nor plus the $72 dollar female hormone panel gives and actual test number to amounts over 1500.
When using labsMD, does the BW go into your medical file? As in, will future insurance companies be able to see the results of this test?
No, it's a personal lab so noting is saved in your medical file.
You get an email, with your results attached as a pdf, usually within 24 hours of the test.
ThoripYes to the lump, it wasn't in week 2 I'm in week 6 and this started about two weeks or so ago and yes it's my first cycle estro problems started from dbol not the test.
ThoripWas only on dbol one week. Was told to get off of it and quickly obliged.
My bad I misinterpreted the timeline of you cycle.
I hate to lecture you but this is the exact reason why first cycle should be test only.
Gyno can only be successful treated with SERMs or surgery.
The best SERM for gyno reversal is ralox, and the next best is nolva.
The dosages for each are below.
You should be aware that gyno begins in a florid stage and becomes more fibrous overtime.
Gyno treatment can take up to 9+ months, so you need to be patient if things don't get better in a few days.
2.nolvadex 20mg/day up to PCT then 40mg/day week1, 20mg/day week 2+(If symptoms persist continue at 20mg/day post cycle.)
You should really stop using letro and proceed with dex or stane for the remainder of the cycle.
I just read a recent study on Aromasin, saying that 25 mg/day is the optimal dose, and did not crash estro at that dose. I haven't done a whole lot of reading on this, but you may have to up your aromasin dose. Most of the guys in the study were on TRT so they are running 200mg or less of Test cyp a week.
But, if you want a more aggressive AI, I would use letro or Adex. That level is too high for my liking, I would run .25mg/day of Adex until it comes down, then swap to .25mg e3d...that's the sweet spot for me, but everyone is different.
ThoripAll my research said asin was stronger I started it on adex had issues switched switched to asin had labs done results above now I'm on 1.2 letro... Not trying to crash my E but 182 is way too high for my liking.
How often are you taking 1.2mg of letro?
ThoripEod
Brother that's way too much letro!
If you incest on using letro as AI then drop it to 0.25md E3D or max EOD. Anymore and you will likely have low e2 issues. Again the only way to know for sure is to follow up with BW.
ThoripThanks for the advice well start taper tomorrow afraid to go back to just asin and I know I made a rookie mistake taking the dbol. I am impatient wanted to get huge in a week. And got it for free. But any way. To get off letro taper down obv then asin and ralo for next few weeks into Nolva then pct? Gyno is about handled minimal at this point.
If you think asin is stonger than adex, you got some bunk adex lol. To each his own though, Asin is much friendlier on the body and IGF production, so it's a better drug in my opinion, just more expensive, and has to be run at a higher dose to really do its job.
Like I said, you could bump your Asin to 25mg/day split into 2 doses of 12.5mg. Research suggest that Asin half life is shorter in Males than in Females, so splitting doses greatly improved its effectiveness in the studies I read. I'll try to get some links for you if I can. But I wouldn't suggest upping asin and still taking letro...I'd say one or the other, not both.
It could also be you need a more aggressive AI like letro. Not everybody's body reacts the same to these compounds.
ThoripI figured it was a possibility, started letro Thursday
The only people who need letro are those prone to high rates of aromatization.
Even if you're in that category you need to be careful because letro is a very powerful.
As little as 0.25mg can inhibit 98%+ of e2.
Letro takes 2-6 weeks to reach steady state plasma concentration.
IMO you should stop the letro before you crash your e2, and resume taking stane.
bigmurphI think that your number should be lower at ed 12.5.
You can definitely increase your dose to bring your estro down. In regards to it being bunk im not sure what did your test levels come back at and the rest of the numbers
ThoripTest is from different supplier up around 2000ng/ml
bigmurphYour test is at a high number up your dose and test again see if you're within the range you would like to have it. Also said above every one is different you might need a stronger ai.
ThoripNewest Testosterone results came back 1200ng/ml free 3100ng/ml bound. 4300 total testosterone. E at 182... Doesn't seem as bad with these results.
ThoripI started letro I was going to avoid it but what can you do. I had hoped my dose to a full 25 mg ed no change so I taped up with the letro I had on hand hoping to stay around 1.25 ed. Not a fan of the warning on the gen shi package stating it isn't sanitized and is probably underdosed
bigmurphThey actually put that on the bag
That it isn't sanitary and is underdosed
ThoripSays it manufactured with GMP(good manufacturing procedures) under 100% dosing and sterilization practices.
When it comes to AIs and PCT meds you really have to get either pharma or generic pharma.
Anything else is a roll of the dice.