JohnQTwisted's picture
JohnQTwisted
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+ 2 Beginner Test Cycle

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STATS, DESCRIPTION, GOALS

35 yo
5'10"
190lbs
BF 21%
Back Squat max: 325x5
Push Press Max: 165x5

Sport: Strongman (amateur)

WeekTestosterone EnanthateTest Prop
1-March 7th 2014150mg150mg
2250mg300mg
3500mg
4 - 3/28500mg
5500mg
6-4/14/2014500
7500
8500
9500
10500
11500
12250
Sumatra_Triangle's picture

Not sure.
Whats your ai?
Your pct?

JohnQTwisted's picture

Aromasin, Novaldex.

Haven't taken any yet, don't intend to take Aromasin unless I feel it's needed, and plan to cruise on ~200mg of Test Cyp once this basic 10 week cycle is over, so thusly, may not use the Novaldex either.

rolltide3's picture

I'm lost how this a 10 week cycle see alot wrong here

JohnQTwisted's picture

Only updated what I have done so far. Sorry, new user.

Not used to writing logs where you record things that are supposed to happen in the future, as I find the future to be entirely unpredictable.

I have updated to reflect my planned dosages.

week 12 I will either start or a TRT level dose of Test Cyp or Test E, or week 13 I will start a PCT on Novaldex.

Makwa's picture

Bad move to be putting yourself on a TRT dose and cruising when you don't need to be. Get yourself a proper PCT lined up and posted so we know you are on the right track. Nolva is not going to cut it.

JohnQTwisted's picture

I am trying to get my hands on some HCG for when I do plan a PCT, which would be in approximately 25 weeks.

Haven't found it in stock from the two sources I trust so far.

rolltide3's picture

Well why wouldn't u run a proper pct then. So u are not on trt.

JohnQTwisted's picture

I'd rather not go through the whole deal of doing a proper PCT, I'd rather just cruise for 6-10 weeks and then begin a new 'blast'.

I've heard a lot of stories about the difficulties of PCT, and been discouraged from doing them if not absolutely necessary, and TBH I plan to start a second cycle when my offseason starts.

I have 2 contests that happen during what would be "PCT" time, and I don't fancy being weak, emotional and shut down during that time.

rolltide3's picture

What who are u listening to. So u are putting yourself on trt for no reason well good luck with that I'm out. This is about as dumb a move as u can make

JohnQTwisted's picture

maybe we're talking different terminology here...

My intent is to take a dose of about 150-200mg of Test E or Test C for about 6-8 weeks while I am competing in strength sports but after my "cycle" is over, then either PCT or start a new "cycle". The guys that I have been talking to call this "cruising" and "blasting".

If you think it's a bad idea to take 200mg a week for 8 weeks and you wish to offer an explanation as to why, I would be glad to hear it. I have gleaned from my research that strength goes down, estrogen sides go up, and performance suffers during PCT. I don't want that to coincide with my competition schedule. Meanwhile, I have also gleaned that some men are placed on doses of 150mg of Test for, well, the rest of their lives, without any major side effects. I have also gleaned that it is very common practice to blast and cruise for months and months at a time, only stopping use maybe once or twice a year for a proper full PCT and some time off.

So far you guys have just been insulting, and I am just throwing this up to learn. Instead of offering constructive criticism, or citing reasoning, you're just telling me I am wrong and not explaining why you think so. Not super helpful.

Sumatra_Triangle's picture

Hey I have not been insulting. I see you have fixed the layout. It looks better now.

I like dbol for strength gains. I pyramid a low dose starting at 5mg. for 3 days then 10 for 3 days etc.
There are also alot of great peptides out there that can help strongman.
No need to jump on tren or do anything silly.

Looks like you have your doses set. You have an AI. PCT can be worked on and studied a little
If your considering cruising I suggest blood tests. Try to lower your body fat % to ward off High BP problems
Work on your diet and with a basic test cycle you can make major gains.

jimmie's picture

I don't think you understand the magnitude of having to be on trt for the rest of your life. Maybe you don't plan on it for the rest of your life, but if you keep cruising and blasting then the chances of coming back to a functioning dick without trt is slim to none. Forget ever having kids. Your balls are never going to work again.

If you run a proper pct then your test won't get that low. 150mg a week would put your test in the natural range. With a proper pct you could have natty numbers higher than what a cruising dose would put you at. No one wants to be 'off', but it's a necessity to keep your body working as intended, so you it can be tweaked at will with cycles. Guys who blast and cruise, I do believe, do that because they have gone too far, there's no looking back, they kinda lost hope to get their boys working again.

So for your own well being my recommendation is to do an aggressive pct, check my latest cycle log, I think I set up a pretty good pct there. Then maybe 4 or 5 weeks after finishing pct, get your blood tested, see if your test and estro are in your normal range. They might not be, I think clomid has a lingering effect...which makes test higher than normal....? maybe...this might be wrong, don't quote me.

I hope I've helped with a bit of an explanation of why others are trashing your ideas. A lot of the older guys and vets and guys who go to classic cycles come here and learn something, they get educated as to how their bodies work and what these chemicals can do to help and to harm them. A lot of the advice you will get here, stickies in the forums and searches you can find in your research here is based mostly on trial and error of people who have been using roids for a long time. Some of it's science, physiology, some bro-science. But the bottom line is that cycle time + pct should = the amount of time you are off and letting your brain/ball/hormones all get back to what they are supposed to be doing.

In a promo × 1
tonytulo's picture

we are saying your wrong because instead of pulling bloods and seeing where you natural test levels are which doesn't sound like they re high if you've ran cycles like this in the past no one will sign off on you basically signing up for trt. you want to run a cycle longer then it should be ran therefore shuting your hpta down and the harder you shut down the chances of coming back without damage done are slim to none. the guys that are giving you advice have plenty of knowledge , no one is picking on you our main goal is to help on this site. but you seem to have your mind made up on what your "bros" have told you. so when you end up having to pin test the rest of your life remember all of us and then go thank your " bros". weve all told you its a bad idea and no one will sign off on this. your worried about your performance while your pcting how about the performance of your natural test let alone how good you do in the gym, at a meet, or at a comp??? and you cant even tell us your priors so therefore you have no business even thinking about trt without proper blood work prior cycles and a legit doctors advice. also your bodyfat is to high for ASs anways have a good day.

rolltide3's picture

How many cycles have u ran. The longer u take test the longer your hpta will be shutu down. If u do a ten weetk cycle then cruise for 8 more then run another cycle. The chances are u will never recover and u will have to run test every week for the rest of your life. Thats the last resort brother. Trust me this is not something u want to do for life yet if later n life it comes to that then okay but u are forcing this hand. If u stick to cycles that last 10 ta 16 weeks its much easier to bounce back from pct is critical at this point. Here's a fact your pct is almost always more crucial than your cycle.

JohnQTwisted's picture
vhman's picture

How does this apply to what rolltide said? This study is about test being used as a temporary male contraceptive. SMH

JohnQTwisted's picture

he appears to claiming that staying on a TRT dose or higher for 18 weeks will cause irreversible damage to my spermatogenesis.

which, according to this and many other peer reviewed journal articles which are easily attainable, is not the case.

i just don't want that expert misleading anyone else by stating as fact was is really just his opinion.

rolltide3's picture

Smh u just don't get it. U are cycling irresponsible and u keep this up u will be on trt for life. U have so many knowledgeable guys telling u the same thing so good luck running all this. U act like this is nothing but how many cycle have u ran how many pct have u done. Here's a fact the longer u stay on steroids that shut down your hpta the harder it is to recover to your normal levels. I really don't get what's so hard to understand about this. Dude u are so wrong your cycle is a complete joke and I'm not the one looking foolish here

JohnQTwisted's picture

Maybe you guys aren't reading.

The cycle is 12 weeks of mostly Test E at about 500mg. That's not wrong. That's totally standard. The numbers at the beginning are off because I had a hard time drawing from 25g needles, until I got some 18g ones.

The research articles I linked described anywhere from 200mg a week down to 500mg a month causing NO PERMANENT CHANGE IN HPTA FUNCTION.

What I am describing doing, FOR THE FOURTH FUCKING TIME, is ending my 12 week cycle with less than 8 weeks of 200mg doses so I don't have to do a proper PCT until after my third competition.

So, one cycle, mostly low doses, less than 20 weeks, then a PCT. Nothing that fancy compared to what y'all are saying I should do, and yet, you are insisting that something that I have scientific proof is a low risk will definitely happen, ie something bad will happen to me at 20 weeks, even though it didn't happen to 1000 subjects after 120 weeks.

I have read everyone else's cycle stuff, and I have come to the conclusion that if you make a input error, or express any idea not held by the majority, this is what you get. A bunch of cyber ninjas jumping all down your dick. I don't have time to be talked to like this. I have a master's degree in exercise phys, a thriving training business, competitions to attend to, and access to the broader internet, up to and including PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH ARTICLES THAT CLEARLY CONTRADICT what some random and anonymous dudes that are being nothing but dicks are saying.

Good day sirs.

vhman's picture

Wrong is wrong. You may be able to bend the truth in your little world, but you won't get any cosigners here.
That study was a ONE time trial. You have done multiple cycles. The fact that you can't see that is very troublesome.
You can choose to stop fighting everyone And learn something or continue down your fairytail. Folks are trying to help you, so dump the pride and head down a new and healthy path.
I just have a feeing my plea will be a mute point.

JohnQTwisted's picture

so it's just a reading comprehension thing.

OK.

vhman's picture

Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

rolltide3's picture

Just give up he's a big boy let's see him in the future on here asking for help to save his hpta but at that point all we can do is tell him to go see an endo

vhman's picture

Magical thinking.

vhman's picture

It's usually not one run that will do it, it's repeated runs of that length and irresponsible cycling/pct that will do it (along with other axis problems). I think that was his point and that is more applicable to this.

rolltide3's picture

Lol he's the expert look at his amazing cycle plan

JohnQTwisted's picture

Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate the explanations.

This cycle, through which I am half way done, is my first.

Right now, I think the plan to is complete the 12 weeks of elevated test, then run a few extra weeks (2-3) at 200mg/wk, then hit a generic Novaldex type PCT. Take about 8 weeks off, then start my "off season" with a 12-16 week Test+EQ type cycle, with just a little more umph then this. Maybe 300/600, or 500/600.

I am reporting my bodyfat accurately, I have it done by a trained professional once a week with calipers. I think a lot of the yahoos that say they are X% are just estimating, and almost always under estimating.

My blood pressure, after 4 weeks of test E was 111/74, so it has elevated a few points (lowest recently was 104/70). My bloods before I started were very good, like trys were ~200, but HDL was like 80-90. My test/est was normal.

A year or two ago, I was eating Paleo, teaching Crossfit and competing in BJJ, so my cardiovascular health is excellent. My BF% is so high (highest its ever been) because I have been force-feeding myself for about 30 months trying to gain muscle, but at 35 years old, it just wasn't happening anymore. Hence the test.

Low and behold, I gain 10lbs in the first month, and PR everything, on pretty much the same old programming I've always done.

Makwa's picture

All I'll say is you are cycling irresponsibly. You are extending your cycle needlessly and prolonging shutdown and not taking the proper time off to recover. You are taking the fast route to a fried HPTA and jeopardizing your long term health. Steriods can be a blessing if used responsibly and a curse if used irresponsibly. It is your choice if you want it to be a blessing or a curse.

JohnQTwisted's picture

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19293262

You guys should check this out.

TL:DR
A total of 1045 healthy fertile Chinese men were recruited throughout China into the study.
Injections of 500 mg TU(testosterone undecanoate) were administered monthly for 30 months.
Spermatogenesis returned to the normal fertile reference range in all but two participants.
Monthly injection of 500 mg TU provides safe, effective, reversible, and reliable contraception.

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