posted Tue, 02/25/2014 - 05:57
1829
Over work on cycle???
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So from everything i have read it would seem that it would be hard to overwork when on a cycle. Meaning with increased protein synthesis, decreased cortisol, and better recovery all together would it be possible to work your way out gains even with the right nutrition pre and post workout??
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I work out 2.5 hours a day, twice on wednesdays... 7 days a week, gear or no gear... NUTRITIONS is the key... overtraining is just bullshit to get you out of the gym to make room for the next guy...however... if you lose your pump.. time to go or switch to a different muscle.
so just in general high intensity for more than 2hrs can be done just get enough sleep and whey and you could see results....i was just asking in general and roids could you spend enough time in the gym to be wasting your time
Not speaking about gear, but just in a general sense there is no "OVERTRAINING" in my opinion, There is Under nutrition and Under rest. You can spend the extra time in the gym and train harder than most, as long as you have the proper rest and nutrition you will not be counterproductive. Adding gear will give you the drive to do more mentally and intensity will rise but IMO you cannot overtrain. This of course is a highly debatable subject and everyone responds differently but I've found personally that when you "overtrain" by most peoples standards you just take an extra nap and increase your calorie intake and it equals out.
It seems like there must be some point though were the body just cannot over come the training stress put on it no matter how much rest or nutrition you have. There are only 24 hours in a day so there must be a point were the excess trauma from training cannot be repaired because there just isn't enough time to do it. It seems like the body can only assimilate so much of your protein and other nutrients at any given time also so if your rate of training (trauma to the muscles) exceeds this assimilation capacity, you would be overtraining it. At this point you would be overtraining.
Improper training could also be considered a form of overtraining. For example, Jimmy wants a big chest so he trains chest 7 days a week. I don't see how the body could ever recover from something like that, no matter how good your nutrition or rest was.
I agree 100%. It's a combination of insufficient nutrients and rest.
In a nutshell, the activity itself is driven by energy derived from glycogen stores, so it's easy to see the need to replenish. Taking it a step further is that glycogen is actually converted to ATP by cellular catalyst (enzymes and co-enzymes), which are essentially used up during the conversion and must be replenished before protein synthesis takes place.
Here's where it all ties in... These catalyst are made from BCAA's (leucine, isoleucine, and valine), and guess what muscle tissues predominately consist of? BCAA's.
So, what does that mean? There reaches a point either during the workout or afterwards when cellular catalysts are depleted. When this happens the body's first priority is to replenish those catalyst before replenishing glycogen and beginning tissue repair. If a dietary source isn't provided, then blood proteins and muse tissues will be catabolized to provide what is needed for synthesizing new enzymes. Again, this can take place either during the activity or afterwards during recovery.
Hope that shit makes some sense.. A little sleep deprived and constantly being distracted while trying to write that shit.
I agree with this principle. If you're taking in adequate nutrition and getting enough sleep, over training is almost a myth. Can you always get enough nutrition and crest to keep going at it 100%? Maybe not. That situation creates the premise of "over training" IMO.
I'm confused, I thought that was what the definition of over training was? Too much exercise and not enough food/sleep?
I guess it is confusing when discussing Overtraining... To some it may mean working out for more than an hour. To some it may mean not feeding yourself and resting enough. Its open for interpretation. However, we are all on the same page in the fact that it doesnt matter the amount of time you spend working out.. within reason... as long as you feed yourself and rest how much you need to for recovery.
Point in case... Ben Pakulski majored in kinesiology and studied many different ways (scientifically) and discovered an entirely different way of training.. Training a weak body part twice in the same day to bring it up. Most would call it crazy (overtraining) but I tried it and it worked with the proper nutrition and rest.
i dont completely agree i have notice after about a week of doing extra work (2hrs instead of 1hr) or not getting a rest day i start having a kind of burnt out feeling even with extra sleep...but everyone is different so just do what works
Different for everyone. For the way I train, 2 hours wouldn't be possible, I like high intensity work.
6 days per week, 60-70 minutes per day works nicely for me. Got to know your own body.
When it comes to training there is no right or wrong when it comes to debatable topics like this one. You know your body better than anyone else. Listen to it. Sometimes you can go hard for weeks without a day off, sometimes you need a few to rest. If your body is saying you need a rest take it!
I will point out, however, that you may not be getting the proper amount of rest / nutrition you think you are. I may be wrong so dont misinterpret... but do a little caloric research to see where you should be including all the variables.. weight / height / age / gear / type of work, etc... You may be doing everything right by the numbers but didnt include the fact your'e busting ass in the sun all day, which will take some of that energy. All is applicable when deciding your customized meal / rest plan.
AAS is not a magic pill... If you know how to stimulate the body thru proper training and nutrition, and reach the desired goal, then those are the exact same principles that should be applied here. Forget the fact that you're on gear. Gear should be looked at similarly to vitamins (not to be taken lightly, of course), with the emphasis always on training and nutrition. All the gear does is get you to the end result quicker. Everything else still applies.
It absolutely possible to overwork yourself even on cycle. Yes, protein synthesis rates are increased, but this repair process only takes place post workout and during recovery periods between workouts.
The causes of overtraining are simple to understand, if you look at it from a process standpoint - stimulus as well as lack of materials (nutrition).
I wrote some thing on this a while back. Let me see if i can find it and post the link.
I complete agree with everything with simple carbs followed by fast digesting protein. I guess the question really is would the extra time put in like in your story benefit someone thats on anabolic's or would it be self defeating ...thanks for the reply it was a good read do you mix your simple carbs (honey) with your protein or keep them separate or does that even matter in your opinion
I mix them but I don't understand your question by "extra time put in".
If you're talking about extra time in the gym, then the answer remains the same. It's all about balance. Expenditure is increased while on juice, as well as replenishment as long as nutrition is right. Work too hard and don't have the nutrition dialed in and gains are affected. You still only have so much stores to tap into during your activity. When they run out because intensity and duration is too high, muscle tissue and blood proteins will become the primary source of fuel. Hence overtraining.
I only added the nutrition side bc overtraining can result from inadequate diet as well, because the demand is not met thru diet.
If you wanna go longer with or without gear, pack some BCAA's and some sports drinks to get you thru it without detriment.
Overtraining:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/ov...
Now read this but try to take a step back and look at it from a different perspective than what the context is here. In this article, I'm trying to show how to use the post workout insulin spike to boost the repair process and increase gains. But I touch base on the physiology involved (biological processes at work) so that the reader understands why the nutrients and timing is important. By understanding that process, you should see the correlation between catalyst depletion and overtraining.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/fo...
it all depends; overtraining is simply working out the same group of muscles repetitively over the course of a week and not taking a rest.
Ok so what would it take in your opinion to over work a muscle group while on a steroid cycle. I read all the time for the natural gym goer a hour to a hour and a half is what you should limit yourself too (and i do limit my time in the gym with good results so i agree with the idea)but what about someone supplementing with anabolic's .
It's a very complex subject... Gear accelerates protein synthesis, however, the raw materials must be present in sufficient amounts in order for proteins to be constructed to meet the imposed demand.
Post workout the first priority in recovery, however, is not protein tissue repair. Instead, it is to replenish both cellular catalyst and glycogen stores. Once that's complete, then the synthesis process takes place.
If there is insufficient circulating glucose due to inadequate carbs, then the bodies next option for glycogen replenishment is a process called gluclneogenesis, which literally translates to "making new glucose".
Glucose can be made from two things outside of carbs: proteins and fats. Because fats require a lot of oxygen and metabolic work, plus the fact that only a potions of each triglyceride is used for this, the next desired source for glucose is protein.
Because amino acids contain a nitrogen group, they must be dismantled by enzymes in the liver (does this ring a bell to any of our blood work enthusiasts?) and the nitrogen separated, degraded, and excreted. All of this makes creating glucose more time consuming than just converting dietary carbs.
What does that mean? It means post workout, for those that don't fully understand the importance of simple sugars and overly emphasize proteins, you're essentially starving the hungry, recovering muscle, and it will feed itself.
Once protein deamination takes place for gluclneogenesis, all proteins become susceptible to being broken down. This includes dietary proteins, blood proteins, and muscle tissue.
If you mean overtrain then no, you can over work your muscles still which is counter-productive..