Estrogen without gyno signs should I Adex?
Hi All,
Stats: 42YO, 6ft, 200lbs, 8-10%bf, 3rd cycle
Cycle:
Currently at week 2
1-4 TestP@75ED
1-4 DBol@40ED
1-16 TestE@600pw
HCG 500ui pw
Symptoms:
No gyno
Very Tired
Large loss of libido
Zero sperm
Good morning wood
Slight bloating (Diet super strict so no salt)
Small strength gains
Hot flushes
No acne (I usually get a bit)
So do you think I should add some adex into the cycle @ 0.25 x2 PW
If I go on it do I need to stay on it all cycle or when I stop taking it the Estrogen it is blocking , will saturate me?
I've got a career physical challenge in a few weeks and I heard adex can make you dizzy?
Last cycle was low Testp & high TrenA
My libido skyrocketed.
I'm thinking this was because it was a low Test cycle there wasn't enough to aromatize into estrogen
I know your gunna recommend blood tests but here in Aust its impossible to get them private and every doctor refuses to help me cause they think im a druggy.
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dude im Australian, my doctor is fine!! im wondering what pct you used on your last cycle?? zero sperm??? did you use clomid??? simply tell them the truth, they cant do shit all bro its dr patient confidentiality, how do you think people get on trt?? they get blood test on hormone panels, ive had 6 done this year bro!!!!!! just tell them you feel like shit!!! and you think low t! if they refuse you you can go to the tribuneral, what do you think happens when I heroin addict over doses?? they help them!
VewiI like aromasin better than Adex, binds better with estor.
aromasin 6.25mg ED or 12.5 EOD.
Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects.
Also Arimidex lowers your IGF-1 levels
Just something to think about.
Dam Zewi,
After finding out about the IGF-1 I wish I hadn't taken the 0.5 Adex this morning.
I'm gunna have to bite the bullet and find a doctor that will help with the blood test.
Its still 3 weeks till I can get my hands on some Aromasin.
Do you think I'll get an estrogen spike from 1 x 0.5 Adex I took this morning?
lol the igf increase or decrease from ai's is so minimal. I wouldn't even worry about it
the adex will work perfectly fine just keep doing what you are doing bro. What's nice about adex is it doesn't have the side effect profile aromasin has. it's more stable and doesn't need to be dosed daily. It also doesn't tank your estro like aromasin does. Oh and aromasin puts un needed stress on your liver because it is metabolized by an enzyme in your liver, adex isn't =)
Vewiyou are correct. Adex has a longer life, in the blood stream however,
Aromasin (exemestane)
Exemestane is a steroidal suicide aromatase inhibitor. It isvery similar in structure and action to formestane, although it is significantly more potent in comparison. As a class of drugs, aromatase inhibitors offer an anti estrogenic effect by blocking the enzyme responsible for synthesizing estrogens. Exemestane is approved by the FDA for the treatment of breast cancer in women, specifically in post menopausal patients whose cancer has progressed following therapy with tamoxifen (nolvadex). Male bodybuilders and athletes often use the drug for non approved purposes, namely to counter the estrogenic side effects associated with the use of aromatizable anabolic/androgenic steroids. This may include gynecomastia, fat buildup, and water retention. Exemestane is one of the most potent aromatase inhibitors presently available. The most commonly cited date reports a lowering of estrogen around 85% on average in clinical studies with women. Exemestane was developed by Pharmacia & Upjohn, which gained FDA approval for sale of the drug in late 1999. They introduced it under the Aromasin brand name in early 2000. Although the drug proved to be effective in doses as low as 2.5mg per day in some patients, the company developed it in a standard and near universally effective dosage of 25mg per tablet. The company has since introduced the drug to many other nations under the same trade name of Aromasin.
It has been shown that 25 milligrams of exemestane is basically just as effective as 50 milligrams at suppressing estrogen, raising testosterone levels, and levels of IGF.
References:
A predictive model for exemestane pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics incorporating the effect of food and formulation.Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2005 Mar;59(3):355-64.
Eur. J. Cancer. 2000, May;36(8):976-82
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956Copyright © 2003 by The Endocrine Society
Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S
Anticancer Res. 2003 Jul-Aug;23(4):3485
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
Products /aromatase inhibition/risudual aromatase%
formestance(4-androstenoldion) /91.6/8.1%
aromasin(exemestance)/97.9/2.1%
cytradren (aminoglutethimide)/90.6/9.4%
arimidex
(amastrozole)/96.7/3.1%
femera(letrozole)/98.7/1.3%
Produc/effect/percentage
formestance(4-androstenoldion) /increases IGF-1/26%
femera(letrozole)/increases IGF-1/24%
aromasin(exemestance)/increases IGF-1/28%
arimidex
(amastrozole)/decreases IGF-1/18%
nolvadex(tamoxifen citrate)/decreases IGF-1/23.5%
faslodex(fulvestrant)/decreases IGF-1/70%
cytradren (aminoglutethimide)/increases IGF-1/27%
Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Mauras N; O'Brien KO; Klein KO; Hayes V [email protected].
We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2
concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with
no significant change in mean and peak
GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations.
There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and
rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein
synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound
growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.
AnonIm more inclined to suggest 2 weeks at .5mg a day . In 2 weeks time and at that dose it will be much more evident if youve moved your self in the right direction. If you think it did, then drop the dose down just be careful on adex for estrogen rebound, taper off the higher dose. Dont just cut back to the .25 E3D right away.
Yeah Man you aren't kidding about that rebound! It's no joke! I tried cutting back from a high dose of .5 ED to .25 EOD (LIKE AN IDIOT)! First 3 days everything was cool morning of day 4 sore nips, headaches, limp dick, tired and just really emotional. I stupidly tried to stay at that dose for a week but felt completely like shit! Finally came to my senses and went back to .5 ED. Today is day 5 back on high dose I feel 100% better. I will Get bloods end of next week to see if any change is needed. If out is I will most definitely taper. Good luck OP
Thanks heaps for your replys
I might try Adex 0.5 E3.5D as I'm thinking my body is very resistant to gyno.
With no blood test avail ,my estrogen levels are really just a guess based on a past cycle and other estrogen symptons.
So hopefully on Adex 0.5 E3.5D I will see something change.
Its really just the gains and libido im concerned about.
Cheers Threshy.
yes add in adex 0.25mg every 3 days just as a preventative measure.