My first Steroid experience, what a newbie learned and how I am going to improve. -- New Cycle
So a few weeks back I decided to try out AAS and I quit after 4 days. Why? I decided to go the Test Prop route doing 100 ML injections. This was a mistake as a first time user as the amount of injecting and PIP was horrible. Here's some things that happened:
1) After my first injection, right glute the PIP was fairly bad. I got a lump there and it hurt VERY VERY bad. I could barely walk and had to limp around 8 hours a day at work. This PIP lasted approximately a week. People told me that next time I should inject, massage, and take a warm bath to prevent this from occurring.
Oh did I mention that I injected in the right glute right after a very heavy leg workout that night? MISTAKE!!!!
2) Second injection was right glute... was so nervous forgot to pull back on the plunger luckily I didn't inject in a vein. I massaged and took a warm bath... and NEVER got any PIP on this side... however the next day the TEST FLU kicked in. This hit me so hard I was throwing up constantly since i woke up for approximately the next 6 hours. I was also having diarrhea that lasted nearly 12-14 hours. I was taking pepto and Tylenol.
My fever was a 102.5 it was fairly high. This lasted approximately a day and a half. From what I learned, a lot of this was due to the Test Prop. Luckily, I immediately stopped because I knew I would not want to do 35 injections (10 weeks worth) and be having more PIP pain like this.
I did have the PCT on hand but was told it was not necessary due to just having two injections.I still want to give this all a go so I am trying to improve before starting again. Here is what I am looking at:
1) Test E or Test C. This way I can do a once a week injection. I am thinking about doing around 350 MG injections. I see most people do between 200-600. Any thoughts on this? Can it be done in one injection or need two?
2) I did not have an AI before (Because my friend that has done 3 cycles, he was the one giving me advice) said it is not necessary. He still claims its not but I was reading more into it and I do not really see a con to using one besides the possible additional cost. Any thoughts?
3) Will the PIP and Test Flu be the same on a Test E or C? Because if so, one thing I will do differently is make sure my injections fall when I have a day or two off work so I do not have to call in sick and miss making money. You definitely want to be able to rest if these symptoms set in.
4) PCT wise I had this planned (And I already have the materials):
Hcg 2500IU EOD 16 days
Clomid 50 MG taken twice a day for 30 days (100 mg per day)
Nolva taken 20 mg per day for 45 days.
This PCT is based from the Anabolics guide 9th edition by WILLIAM LLEWELLYN , s
5) My testosterone seems high for a natural. I have gotten blood work done just recently (about a week prior to the prop injection) and I was 932 test with 103.8 free.
My stats are:
Age 29
Lifting since age 16 (Never stopped)
BF: 8%
Weight: 160
Height: 5'10 on the dot
Test: 932
Free Test: 103.8
My cycle would be for 10 weeks long and of course goal is to gain as much mass as possible.
Any thoughts, comments?
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So I am a bit confused. I am looking at a lot of other first cycle posts and people are doing 500-600 mg a week of test c or test e. i was thinking 250-300 a week at most.
Is this too low? Am i being too cautious? I want to bulk and get bigger.
well this is one of many lessons youll learn if you continue on this path. There is one glaring problem that i see right now that is gonna hinder your next cycle and that is diet. 29 5'10 working out since 16 and your only 160? before you do this next cycle why dont you post up your diet and let us take a look at what your eating, there is some guys on here that will dial you in so that the next cycle allows you to put on "as much mass as possible"
Granted my shakes carb source is maktodextrin which barely falls on tge conplex end of the glycemic index.
Well I am VERY lean. My bf when I did a bod pod test was 9%. So thats fairly accurate. I have a high metabolism I never put fat on and to be honest I never cardio. Not trying to brag I just have one of those body types.
With that being said, i can post my diet either in this thread or a new one. I am happy ti share and i believe there is always room for improvement.
I did just yesterday switch to lactaid instead of water for my shakes. So now I am getting an extra 1200 calories a day...
But typically my macro nutrient breakdown is 50 g of protein, 70 carbs, and 20g of fat (almlst always from peanut butter). Typically eat brown rice and red meat like filet mignon.( I own a grocery store free food)
I try to do that over 4 meals which breaks dlen into 200 g protein, 280 carbs, and 80 grams lf fat. My shakes are 50 g protein and 80 grams of carb. With the lactsaid it adds about 16 g of protein and 20 g of carbs. I take 3 shakes sometimes 4 a day.
So I am nearly at a 5000 calorie diet. I could write down exact amounts if ppl want. I am welcome to help.
try a diet like this: 150g fat/700g carbs/230g protein. 5000 calories.
Use ZERO protein shakes to account for your total daily protein. It's cheating.
Protein shakes should only be used during a cutting diet, or after you workout as long as you got your total daily protein intake BEFORE adding the grams of protein from your shake.
I promise you WILL gain a lot of muscle.
if you are eating a REAL 5000 calories daily and weigh 160, you probably have some sort of digestive or muscle wasting complications/disease. Seriously if you can not gain on 5000 calories a day there is something very very wrong.
By the way my stats are 205 6ft and 9% BF. I have hyperthyroidism, so if you wanna talk about fast metabolism, you have no idea... lol
I would try to get thet in 6 meals and 2 shakes instead of 4 meals and 4 shakes. hard to believe your maintaining 160 on 5000 calories at 29 years old, but if that is the case then your gonna need to add more to it when you go on cycle and to maintain the weight after you come off. no matter which way you skin the cat theres a lack of calories to gain weight!
Btw thanks so far!! Reading some of the stickies in the nutrional forum for new ideas and to learn more. I do not eat enough vegetables based on some samples
well it sounds like you got most of what you need to know, this guy here could dial you in if you have further diet questions https://www.eroids.com/users/sgtstedanko
Yes i am with you weight gain / loss is a simple formula. Either way the calorie count needs to go up. I have added the lactaid to my protein drinks (cant handle milk) so thats some nice extra cals.
I even thought about possibly doing a cheat day or two where you eat some fatty things IE MCDONALDS. Otherwise i eat fairly clean lot of plain food, tuna, brown rice, chicken.
My metabolism is just off the charts. If I dont workout I lose weight and get skinny and I could be eating Mcdonalds.
Weird thing, I traveled to China before for a vacation and for fun we took a tour and saw eastern doctors. Their diagnose of me (I never said anything) was that I have a stomach nutritional absorption problem. Which interpreted as i only geyhalf the benefit of what I eat. Not saying this is true, just something weird!!
Anyways, yes i would like to eat more solid meals but sometimes I only have like a 5 min break so I do a shake rather then a meal because I am a slow eater.
I do agree solid food > shakes except post workout. Do you work a lot of hours? How do you manage to eat during shifts?
some days i do, but im not dealing with the public nonstop like you might be. I have one of these http://www.sixpackbags.com/ and I load it the night before with meals for 10, 12, 2, 4, and 6 if im working over time. today I had almonds and an apple for snack at 10, noon was 95% fat free ground pork in a sea weed roll and a half avocado, 2 was non fat cottage cheese and strawberries, 4 I had a piece of broiled fish and steamed veggies from last nights dinner. I dont perse weigh my food or count my calories, I just eat clean and consistently as much as i can.....It also only takes me a couple minutes to get any of those meals down.
I also had grape nuts for breakfast, my 6 oclock meal was a cheat meat and I went out for pork fried rice and spring rolls, gym was at 7 had a shake after wards and then some fish a few minutes ago. So I guess i eat alot!
but my goals are to gain weight right now.
Chaz32621So you saved me some pork fried rice and spring rolls to right?? Haha I love me some egg rolls to damn sounds so good right now lmao!!
honestly bro cheat meals sound good almost any time!
Like right now eating an albacore tuna steak 6 oz, brown rice, then going to have a few tbl spoons of peanut butter.
Chaz32621Dude I wish i could eat like you man..... lol I can put weight on at 2,500 cals and cut at 2,000 shits fucked up for me lol 6'4 215 too lol
Chaz32621haha true id take his body fat over mine lol i could put some nice mass on his frame lmao. Im 23 at 6'4 215 and 13 percent cutting at the moment boy I wish i was 160 I love to eat lmao
So I have been reading this ebook Anabolics guide 9th edition by WILLIAM LLEWELLYN , s seems to have a lot of good information and breaks down cycles and PCT. Anyone read it or heard of it?
I am going to adjust my intake to about 200-300 mg at most of test e/c. I will have an AI on hand but I dont think i will use it unless i get symptoms.
As for HCG the guide recommends it post cycle but NOT during. My concern is balls staying perma shrunk and I thought pct hcg would kick them back up?
Also with Test e / C do you still get pip and test flu? I got it real bad on my test prop injects.
Chaz32621I really am not a big fan of HCG its bad enough with all the shit your taking to add that in. They wont stay perma shrunk once your off and in your pct. Ha actually when I got to week 7 my shit was just starting to shrink up, but once pct started they dropped like elephant balls they are nice an plump now but I also used HCG Regenrate along with clomid and nolva. Dude when I used test e never had test flu, actually after reading your fourm on this I didnt even know what it was lol and ive cycled once already. I think bro just do your test e dont worry about the HCG this is your first cycle kinda right?? Other then you stoped your real first one since you got that flu.
Oh and i am comfortable injecting in my glutes having done those. On a test e twice a week can I do a rotation just between my glutes? Meaning each glute has a 7 day rest?
Chaz32621Yes you could some days ill do my quad if im not training legs. Personally I would never do more then two injections a week. Your really brave in doing prop right off the bat im on my second cycle and worried about the prop im using so many injections!!!
Yeah the test flu was really bad and I think just prop causes it. Nearly a 103 fever, constsnt puking, crapping, and just feeling crappy. Like a REALLY bad case of food poisoning.
The PIP from test prop my first injection was bad. Had a lump on my side and my leg hurt so bad. I could barely walk had to limp. Felt like someone stabbed me with a dagger.
As for HCG you said you took HCG Regenerate? Whats that?
I am thinking about dropping the hcg (less injections) and I am only going to do 300 mg max a week. Might even do 200.
From what i understand, even a dosage like that will yield incredible gains because it is well beyond what a normal human could produce.
Edit: Ultimately my goal is to get 180 lbs after the 10 week cycle.
Chaz32621All in all man id keep it simple and just grow slowly, hahaha your heading in the right way but just take it a step at a time. Dont worry about the hcg for the time being and Id run your test for 12 weeks followed by a good pct 14 days after your last test e shot.
Remeber tho the gear helps it comes down to your diet training and your sleep bro thats what makes you grow!!!
Chaz32621Its called HCGenerate sorry wrote it wrong to much HCG's stuff lol its by Need To Build Muscle. Some people used it on cycle while others use it off. I used it when I was in pct, ill probley grab another bottle to use during my next cylce possible not sure depends on my cash flow at the time but I liked it at the end during pct. It kinda limits having to inject more shit in you and its more natural, After I finshed my pct I went ahead and got another bottle of it and used it agian lol for a while I really like it. Keeps everything nice an plump for the ladies haha.. Personally I did test e at 250 twice a week for 500mg a week. And I did deca at 250 with some tbol. I did have some minor acne on my face. I really thing 300 is low tho. And its test e I didnt start feeling it till week 5 and acne was bad most luckly from the shit amount of tbol I did never agian that much my bp took a beating with that crap lol..
Ideally if your looking for some mass I would use test e with a good oral kickstart. I liked tbol ha but I wasnt really sure if I was getting the high bp from the tbol or the deca. Possibley the deca not a big fan of that shit it was good on my joints but I blew up to quick for my own taste. If I would go back to my first cycle I would just had ran test e. Knowing me I woulda had some oral in it tho maybe winny.
You could always start at 300 especially with your weight and bump it up to 500 later, granted I was 230 when I started so 500mg was ideal for my size and height.
Yeah definitely would only do test e. Not doing deca or any other substances.
For my body weight, is 300 mg a week too low? Could i realistically see a 20 lb increase?
Chaz32621Personally I think you should do 500mg but like roidnoid stated above you need to find a good diet plan to put weight on you. I mean your 160 bro? Im not trying to be an ass or anything. You could get 20lb possible if your diet and trainings on point and keep most of it let alone making sure you continue to eat the same.
You need to do more research bro am sorry to say but its true.read every sticky 3x yes 3x you may think you get it after your first time but on your second read you will pick up something you missed the first time round,then read again.look into the cycle logs and read the posts below them add people and ask advice no questions a stupid question.
For a first cycle you could run test at 350-400mg weekly and you would gain with min water weight if AI where used and estro was in check but if your going to do that you may aswell run 500mg weekly.
But a set first cycle would be
test-e-500mg weekly split into two doses at 250mg monday/thursday split
no hcg as its your first cycle and its all trial and error to see how your body is with certain compounds if hcg is used wrong you could fuck yourself up i would give it a miss for now as adding hcg will only make things harder for you to read on cycle.
AI-you could use adex 0.25mg eod(every other day) or 0.25mg e3d(every 3rd day)
AI-aromasin 6.25mg-12.5mg every day if your running as low as 300-350mg weekly you may get away with 5mg daily its all about how you feel you just got to find your sweet spot without blood work there is no way to tell realy its a guessin game.if your running test E start pct 14-15 days after last injection.
Your pct could be nolva,aromasin only tho and second cycle add in clomid as many talk of harsh sides from clomid.if you run nolva and clomid for first pct and get bad sides you would not know which one was causen them so i say nolva and aromasin then on your second cycle add in clomid and see what pct is like with clomid added its all trial and error just got to learn your body and try and play it safe in the process.
Standard Pct-
nolva run for four week. 40mg,40mg,20mg,20mg some even do 20mg,20mg,10mg,10mg
Run for four week
Clomid 100mg,100mg,50mg,50mg
Run for four week
Aromasin-12.5mg,12.5mg,6.25mg,6.25mg
Using an AI (especially a strong one such as letro for example) will not only reduce your gains due to the fact that estrogen has an anabolic effect, but it will also dry out your joints which will make you more susceptible for injuries.
I only ever run AIs if I am having issues on-cycle or I'm dieting, otherwise I leave them out.
BOOOOOM!... at last someone who agrees with my AI on hand theory..... Thanks EB for printing this, ive had more tiffs on here over "you MUST use AI on cycle" than i cant remember.... refreshing to know someone shares the same beliefs....... i must admit i use proviron constant but thats more for the free test capabilities it brings to the table.
Sorry bro, only just saw this now as I've turned off my email notifications...
I guess we both just know what's up ;)
If the others aren't believers I couldn't care less, it's them who will be getting less gains
You should really look at the sticky "How to Run a Steroid Cycle."
Have an AI just in case any sides show up. You won't need HCG for a 10 week cycle. Your PCT should be 100/100/50/50 Clomid and 40/40/20/20 Nolva.
Pinning twice a week is recommended for steady blood levels. Once a week will lead to peaks and valleys.
I even thought of doing 2 injections of 250 MG for 500 MG a week. Anyone have any suggestions and why? Would my gains not be very noticeable at 350?
it has to be what the hormone is cut with, EO can cause some bad reactions, stick with yhr good ole recipe